The WSJ ran a piece on the worsening water issues in the Southwest today.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/arizonas-dry-future-begins-as-colorado-river-shrinks-11650718801?mod=hp_lead_pos8

It's long, but the summary is that an extended drought + an exploding population are taking their toll on region's water supply. Arizona is starting to heavily restrict agricultural use, and these restrictions will probably increase in the next couple years. Cities may also be affected.

I'm sure a few of the engineers on here work with water - any thoughts on solutions? Desalination always seemed like the water source of the future: fund a bunch of plants on the Cali and/or Baja Mexico coasts and then pipe it to the dry, landlocked areas in Cali, AZ, Utah, etc. But I'm sure it isn't that simple. Can anybody chime in with feasible solutions and possibly explain the challenges for them?

To guide the discussion, let's completely avoid climate change. The cause doesn't change the reality on the ground. Plus, even if this is all climate change's fault, a worldwide transition to green energy would take 40-50 years at minimum, which means it's not going to change the Southwest's short-term water situation.

Just make it rain more

/libs

Arizona's bigger immigration problem is from Cali not Mexico.

Don't they serve other drinks?

Many, many acre feet of fresh water is trapped as ice on the poles, particularly in Antarctica.

Roll black tarp over area of ice during summertime and melt it into channels, put on all those oil tankers we do not need anymore, and ship to highest bidder.

Just saw this video yesterday. Can't vouch for accuracy but intersting...

torrid said:

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Don't they serve other drinks?

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I laughed and then (no kidding) double checked the forum to make sure that I hadn't accidentally posted this on the general board

At some point we need to let the economics of nature establish an equilibrium. Humans have been pushing the envelope of what is habitable for a century. For the most part technology allowed us to get away with it. But lush green golf courses in the middle of the Arizona desert, raising luxury crops like almonds and pistachios in California, and the whole concept of Vegas, has pushed too far. In the words of that great thinker, Sam Kinison, maybe we should just move to where the water is, rather than trying to live where it is not.

Now if you want to talk nuclear desalination, you might have a chance to get the upper hand.

and for you young 'uns

Anecdotally, this has always been a problem. Look at where the dry line is in Texas today as compared to where it was 50 years ago. West Texas used to be a lot more green, and many of the "seasonal" creeks were always full.

It's not going to get any better anytime soon.

Just get more water bottles… AOC

If we give more money and power to the UN it will rain more.

I think the answer is to shut down the fountain at the Mirage.

Deputy Travis Junior said:

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The WSJ ran a piece on the worsening water issues in the Southwest today.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/arizonas-dry-future-begins-as-colorado-river-shrinks-11650718801?mod=hp_lead_pos8

It's long, but the summary is that an extended drought + an exploding population are taking their toll on region's water supply. Arizona is starting to heavily restrict agricultural use, and these restrictions will probably increase in the next couple years. Cities may also be affected.

I'm sure a few of the engineers on here work with water - any thoughts on solutions? Desalination always seemed like the water source of the future: fund a bunch of plants on the Cali and/or Baja Mexico coasts and then pipe it to the dry, landlocked areas in Cali, AZ, Utah, etc. But I'm sure it isn't that simple. Can anybody chime in with feasible solutions and possibly explain the challenges for them?

To guide the discussion, let's completely avoid climate change. The cause doesn't change the reality on the ground. Plus, even if this is all climate change's fault, a worldwide transition to green energy would take 40-50 years at minimum, which means it's not going to change the Southwest's short-term water situation.

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There are already aquifers under western lands. Las Vegas wants to steal, er, take water under Utah's west desert to keep those massive casino/hotel fountains in operation. Utah and Wyoming have already agreed to release half a million acre-feet of water from the Flaming Gorge reservoir into the Colorado to keep Lake Powell up to levels that will help power hydro plants downriver. That will drop Flaming Gorge's water level by 15 feet.
The upstream states like Utah, Colorado and Wyoming cannot continue to contribute water for Arizona and Nevada's growth because that water is needed for agriculture and sustenance of human and animal life. Utltimately, both AZ and NV will have to make other power arrangements such as small nuclear (molten salt reactor) technology or solar to deal with increasing aridity. Desalinizing seawater seems pretty expensive.

Never understood the appeal of living in a desert

Low humidity.

Apparently there isn't a water problem. Have you seen the amount of fountains, pools and green golf courses in las Vegas. Same goes for Phoenix and California. If water was scarce the cost of it would be much higher. Currently there is absolutely 0 ROI on developing desalination plants or any other fresh water production equipment. Billons of barrels of salt water are pumped out of the ground in West Texas that could easily be turned in fresh water. Unfortunately, unless the cost of water goes up or the government subsidizes it somehow, it isn't going to happen

If George Bush didn't hate black people, he'd use his weather machine to bring a hurricane to Arizona.

Aren't certain areas dry because of water rights and rivers being dammed?

bcosf said:

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Billons of barrels of salt water are pumped out of the ground in West Texas that could easily be turned in fresh water. Unfortunately, unless the cost of water goes up or the government subsidizes it somehow, it isn't going to happen

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Yep. People would really be surprised at the use of disposal wells for such things.

Austin is next on the too many people in a drier area. I guess we can drain the Colorado River into a valley?

Maroon Dawn said:

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Never understood the appeal of living in a desert

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Have you driven around the SW at all? It's gorgeous, has no humidity + great weather 8-9 months out of the year, and its sunsets and wide open spaces still give off a shimmer of the old west dream. What's not to like?

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Arizona is starting to heavily restrict agricultural use, and these restrictions will probably increase in the next couple years.

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I just got back from Vegas. The golf courses are nice and green.

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Can anybody chime in with feasible solutions and possibly explain the challenges for them?

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First, there is significant amounts of brackish water available underground so if one's solution is desalinization no reason to go to the ocean. I am on this issue a contrarian. Providing more water only alleviates the issue for a period of time. Getting all of these people who moved to the desert southwest/ west Texas to go home is the solution. That includes all those people who moved from the East Coast and elsewhere to California. If Colorado would just cut off all the water that leaves the State maybe people would get the hint.

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Can anybody chime in with feasible solutions and possibly explain the challenges for them?

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There is no solution. The water resources of these areas can only support so many people for so long. Eventually it will completely run dry. We are already starting to see it in the Ogallalah Aquifer. In theory it is a non-rechargable aquifer and when it runs dry the farm lands of Nebraska, Kansas, E Colorado etc will no-longer be irrigated.

As Dorm 15 said, we need to kick the people out of the West in places like Vegas, Phoenix and LA. For those that don't know LA only has a sustanible water supply for 300,000 people. The rest of the water is brough in from the Great Basin and Colorado River.

The only other option would be to pump water cross country in a pipeline from the Eastern states to the Western states. Which we may have to do one day.

https://www.watereducationcolorado.org/fresh-water-news/feds-4-colorado-river-states-unveil-draft-drought-operations-plan-as-2022-forecast-shifts/

You're right dorm 15. It's a big problem having to keep Lake Powell going. Living in Colorado now, we do enjoy it but having to keep green grass for HOA purposes is ridiculous and frustrates me. Thinking about installing turf. Pay for it pretty easily if I can cut out the $300/month water bills.

The Democrats aren't going to approve any pipelines.

Perhaps millions of folks were not meant to live in a desert.

Build more lakes where it rains but environmentalists don't like lakes either.

That should stop growing almonds there. One of the more water intensive crops there is. They consume vast quantities of water for their almond industry.

It's not the long term answer of course, but things like this goes to show how this problem is largely just more terrible decision making processes. They just stack more and more bad decisions and THEN mixed with a growing population and drought.....

oldcrow91 said:

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Perhaps millions of folks were not meant to live in a desert.

Build more lakes where it rains but environmentalists don't like lakes either.

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Environmentalists don't like people.

sell two teas?

Serious answer is to talk with israel about their desalination and pumping infrastructure.

They do it well and get the water where it needs to go. once we do that then there reall are very few things preventing us from having clean water wherever we need it.

Eliminatus said:

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That should stop growing almonds there. One of the more water intensive crops there is. They consume vast quantities of water for their almond industry.

It's not the long term answer of course, but things like this goes to show how this problem is largely just more terrible decision making processes. They just stack more and more bad decisions and THEN mixed with a growing population and drought.....

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There are methods to greatly reduce water consumption in agricultural production: the Israelis have pioneered methods of water desalination and recycling technology that western states need to adopt ASAP. My earlier comment about desalination costs notwithstanding, these water saving technologies could certainly make the effort worthwhile.

Lived in west Texas/desert Southwest just about all my life. Class of '70 so yeah, a long time. The number of people that call this area home now is just insane. The pro growth people here drive me nuts. Climate change "may" be a factor but I would like to see data that would show how much moisture would be needed to bring back aquifers to mid twentieth century levels. I suspect something on the order of Noah's Flood. Took a trip to Alaska awhile back and was in awe of how much water there was in British Columbia.

This may sound crazy, but imagine if you built a pipeline from the Missouri River say around Kansas City down to the Panhandle. You pump the water into a lake or river and let it flow down and be used for agriculture or drinking water. It might be a stretch too far to get it into Arizona but there's an awful lot of West Texas they could be irrigated and populated.

bcosf said:

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Apparently there isn't a water problem. Have you seen the amount of fountains, pools and green golf courses in las Vegas. Same goes for Phoenix and California. If water was scarce the cost of it would be much higher. Currently there is absolutely 0 ROI on developing desalination plants or any other fresh water production equipment. Billons of barrels of salt water are pumped out of the ground in West Texas that could easily be turned in fresh water. Unfortunately, unless the cost of water goes up or the government subsidizes it somehow, it isn't going to happen

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easily? Like how easy do you think it really is?