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'On board the Moskva could be nuclear warheads - two units,' Samus said, while Klymenko called on other Black Sea nations - Turkey, Romania, Georgia, and Bulgaria - to insist on an explanation. 'Where are these warheads? Where were they when the ammunition exploded,' he asked.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10721351/Ukraine-war-Fears-Moskva-warship-carrying-nuclear-weapons-sank.html

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If the estimates in the article for >400 sailors lost, the sinking eclipses the loss of ARA Gen. Belgrano in the Falkland War in 1982.

AND the loss of another Russian Flag Officer- will likely have a cardiac episode "soon"

Granted. Was thinking more along the lines of casualties, the political fallout will be something to watch. Losing the lead ship of class and more so if nukes are involved.

Russia does not have a really good naval track record since Togo whipped them at Tsushima

Meh...... the US accidentally dropped a nuke off the coast of Spain once. Like "oooops..... a nuke fell off our bomber....".

GAC06 said:

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Clob94 said:

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Meh...... the US accidentally dropped a nuke off the coast of Spain once. Like "oooops..... a nuke fell off our bomber....".

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Except that's not what happened

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You're right, my bad. That plane crashed. I was conflating it with the Ticonderoga incident where it just rolled off the deck into the ocean.

I think we lost one for decades in South Carolina in a swamp tho

Dropping a nuke in the belly of a cruiser is more embarrassing than an environmental problem. It cannot explode due to inherent safeguards. Sure it needs to be retrieved and it will. The US has had a few over the years with all being retrieved except for the Thresher and Scorpion. In these cases the reactor material and that of the bombs would have been crushed and the material corroded to an extent that a nuclear reaction could not happen. The ocean waters would continue to eroded the material over time and the weight of the radioactive elements would cause it to sink into the ocean floor sediment. The Black Sea is not deep compared to the Atlantic so the Russians will undertake costly retrieval measures.

nortex97 said:

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I think we lost one for decades in South Carolina in a swamp tho

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Still lost.

It was in deep, dark water and would have been near impossible to recover. We have several broken arrows, none of them are recoverable.

EMY92 said:

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nortex97 said:

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I think we lost one for decades in South Carolina in a swamp tho

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Still lost.

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Not lost, just repurposed:

rooski nuke was involved in an explosion. There might not be an intact warhead to recover. Would be very interested in the radiation levels at their former flagship's current resting place

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nortex97 said:
I think we lost one for decades in South Carolina in a swamp tho

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Still lost.

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It was dropped in Goldsboro NC and recovered.

Clob94 said:

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Meh...... the US accidentally dropped a nuke off the coast of Spain once. Like "oooops..... a nuke fell off our bomber....".

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I'm an old B-52 guy. That's not what happened. And it's happened more than once.

The Palomares incident off Spain involved the loss of 4 B-28 thermonuclear weapons when a B-52 collided midair with a KC-135 tanker. Three of the bombs hit on land, with two having their high explosives detonate and scatter plutonium. The fourth landed in the water and wasn't found until almost 3 months later.

The bomb which disappeared off the US east coast and has never been found was lost off the coast of Georgia when a B-47 collided with a F-86. The B-47's crew dumped the Mark-15 bomb in the event of a crash on landing. It has never been found. Some reports say it was fully functional weapon, others say it did not have the plutonium core so while it could not go nuclear, the HE could still detonate. It is assumed that the weapon is no longer functional due to the time it has been submerged in sea water and likely buried by sand.

There was also the accident near Goldsboro, NC when a B-52 broke up in flight which released two fully functional Mark-39 thermonuclear bombs (3.8 megaton yield). One bomb landed mostly intact due to its parachute deploying. The other slammed into a field, no detonation of the HE, and much of the nuclear material, other than the core, is still buried in the mud to this day.

The bomb which landed intact had 4 safety systems to prevent accidental nuclear detonation. Of those four, three failed and the weapon had nearly completed its arming sequence. Of the four, only one switch had kept the weapon from going to fully armed and likely a nuclear detonation.

Now, as for Ivan and his lost cruiser, if it did have nukes aboard, hopefully they either burned up, or their high explosives detonated.

In US Parlance this is actually more of an Empty Quiver

nortex97 said:

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I think we lost one for decades in South Carolina in a swamp tho

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Close, it's a hydrogen bomb near Tybee Island somewhere. Adjacent to Savannah and the SC/GA state line. It's still lost.

The Fife said:

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nortex97 said:

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I think we lost one for decades in South Carolina in a swamp tho

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Close, it's a hydrogen bomb near Tybee Island somewhere. Adjacent to Savannah and the SC/GA state line. It's still lost.

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That's it. Fake news source;

https://www.npr.org/2008/02/03/18587608/for-50-years-nuclear-bomb-lost-in-watery-grave

Update; they (or rather, some Canadian tourists) found it in 2018. Whew, that was easy.

One (or more) of the bomb's casing from the Palomares incident can be seen at the Nuclear Museum in Albuquerque, NM. It has dents in it but held up pretty well.

The Black Sea in the region off the coast of Crimea is quite shallow. The central main portion from about Sevastopol south is quite a bit deeper. It will depend on how far south the ship was patrolling and sank.

nortex97 said:

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The Fife said:

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nortex97 said:

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I think we lost one for decades in South Carolina in a swamp tho

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Close, it's a hydrogen bomb near Tybee Island somewhere. Adjacent to Savannah and the SC/GA state line. It's still lost.

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That's it. Fake news source;

https://www.npr.org/2008/02/03/18587608/for-50-years-nuclear-bomb-lost-in-watery-grave

Update; they (or rather, some Canadian tourists) found it in 2018. Whew, that was easy.

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It wasn't found. It was a hoax.

This claims we've lost six weapons but it omits a nuclear depth charge we lost according to the second link

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/reboot/us-military-missing-six-nuclear-weapons-180032

https://www.nytimes.com/1981/05/26/us/us-discloses-accidents-involving-nuclear-weapons.html

Broken Arrow was a pretty entertaining movie back then. I had completely forgotten about until this thread popped up. Thanks OP!

AgNav93 said:

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Clob94 said:

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Meh...... the US accidentally dropped a nuke off the coast of Spain once. Like "oooops..... a nuke fell off our bomber....".

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I'm an old B-52 guy. That's not what happened. And it's happened more than once.

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Love the B52s!

The depth there is only 200-500 feet.

To me…….. that's a concern. Two nukes 500 foot down.

It's like a scene from "For your eyes only" when the Royal St. George's goes down. The Prime minister asks how deep the water was in that location. The repose from Mi5 director was "Not…..Deep……..Enough…………Prime Minister"

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The Palomares incident off Spain involved the loss of 4 B-28 thermonuclear weapons when a B-52 collided midair with a KC-135 tanker. Three of the bombs hit on land, with two having their high explosives detonate and scatter plutonium. The fourth landed in the water and wasn't found until almost 3 months later.

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Dad was just off of "crew dog" status making those same alert flights. He was on the IG team at Westover when this happened, and I can remember him being really busy and tense for a while. Years later he was talking about the "Mark 28" (as he called it) being so heavy that the B-52 could only carry 4. His primary target was the Gorky Tractor Works, and his secondary was Moscow. Suicide mission. It was years later that Teacher Wife 82's dad mentioned that part of his responsibility with F-105s out of Germany was to nuke Czech airfields to help B-52s get through to Russian targets.

Fun times.

Is the one off Spain the one Cuba Gooding Jr found?

An L of an Ag said:

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Broken Arrow was a pretty entertaining movie back then. I had completely forgotten about until this thread popped up. Thanks OP!

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It was a John Woo film. Run time could have been cut in half without all the SSSSSLLLLOOOOWWWWW MMMMMMOOOOOOOTTTTTTTIIIIIIIIIIIOOOOONNNNNNN.

The Belgrano / former USS Phoenix was 44 years old when sunk compared to the 43 year old Moscow when measured from launch date to sinking date.

Well, darn, I didn't read the hoax part, just remembered seeing it was found a few years ago. Kind of amazing they can't find something that size, in shallow, American water.

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Well, darn, I didn't read the hoax part, just remembered seeing it was found a few years ago. Kind of amazing they can't find something that size, in shallow, American water.

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Perhaps the even military has texags-esque "boating accidents"