Trump predicted the problem with Germany dependency on Russian oil.....

https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/1591010/germany-refuses-cut-energy-ties-russia-eu-pressure-putin-invasion

Quote:

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Germany backs down and REFUSES to cut energy ties with Russia despite huge pressure
GERMANY has back down from threats and refused to cut its natural gas ties with Russia, despite facing immense pressure.
By ANTONY ASHKENAZ 15:06, Mon, Apr 4, 2022 | UPDATED: 15:32, Mon, Apr 4, 2022

Since Russian President Vladimir Putin invaded Ukraine over a month ago, European Union states have been punishing Moscow by issuing harsh sanctions on large parts of its economy. However, the bloc has been reluctant to ban Russian fossil fuels like oil and natural gas, which are the country's largest exports. A major reason for this hesitance is that the fuel-starved continent is heavily reliant on Russian gas, supplying 40 percent of its energy needs.

The biggest country that's refusing to issue a complete ban on Russian energy is Germany.

Europe's largest economy is particularly dependent on Russian natural gas, getting 55 percent of its natural gas, 52 percent of its hard coal and 34 percent of its oil from Russia.

This January alone, Berlin purchased 2.6 billion (almost 2.2 billion) worth of oil and gas imports to Russia......

....

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https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/1590977/poland-fury-scholz-germany-energy-santions-russia-putin-gas-oil

Quote:

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Poland unleashes fury as Germany 'main roadblock' to pulling plug on Kremlin war machine
POLAND is furious at Germany, blaming it for preventing tough sanctions from being slapped down on Russia's energy sector amid the Ukraine war.
By JACOB PAUL 14:24, Mon, Apr 4, 2022 | UPDATED: 14:25, Mon, Apr 4, 2022

Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki said during a news conference on Monday that Berlin was causing a major roadblock to his country's ability to punish Vladimir Putin for his invasion of Ukraine. Mr Morawiecki noted that even Hungary, which shares a border with Ukraine but has refused to send weapons, has not blocked sanctions. Morawiecki said: "We have to see that, regardless of how we approach Hungary, this is the fourth such win and we have to respect democratic elections ... it's Germany that is the main roadblock on sanctions.

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Another country has to do what's best for them. Doesn't make Putin any less of a dictator thug for what he's doing, nor does it keep us from funneling the equipment the Ukes area using to make him look more and more pathetic each and every day.

Would it be good if they didn't do what they're doing, sure. But they're one country out of many, and in the end, I don't think it'll have a major effect on what's going on in Ukraine

Putin is turning Russia into North Korea 2.0, the country goes further and further in the crapper, and their Middle class keeps leaving in droves, further ensuring their county will be a 3rd world sh*thole country for a very long time.

Germany "blinking" isn't going to change any of that.

Trump was right yet again.

When conservatives are right, we know it.

When leftists are wrong, they memory hole reality and make up their own history.

At the current rate Russia is going to make more money this year than 2021 on enegy exports. We are surely sticking it to them...

As a pragmatic concern, they can't quit cold Turkey. They'll have to move incrementally. As bad as doing business with Russia is right now, collapsing the German (and European) economies into an energy driven recession would be worse right now.

No Spin Ag said:

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Another country has to do what's best for them. Doesn't make Putin any less of a dictator thug for what he's doing, nor does it keep us from funneling the equipment the Ukes area using to make him look more and more pathetic each and every day.

Would it be good if they didn't do what they're doing, sure. But they're one country out of many, and in the end, I don't think it'll have a major effect on what's going on in Ukraine

Putin is turning Russia into North Korea 2.0, the country goes further and further in the crapper, and their Middle class keeps leaving in droves, further ensuring their county will be a 3rd world sh*thole country for a very long time.

Germany "blinking" isn't going to change any of that.

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Well, what is best for the rest of Europe might be to dissolve the EU, or kick Germany out of NATO, too.

I mean, alliances have costs. Germany is risking isolating themselves and tearing down a lot of what they helped build with European unification / cooperation.

Why join economies with a nation that is doing stuff that is directly impacting your national security?

Yes, it will take them at least 2-4 years, and frankly probably never, to move away from Russian gas dependence. The real threat was/is that Putin would cut them off this year, not vice versa.

No Spin Ag said:

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Another country has to do what's best for them. Doesn't make Putin any less of a dictator thug for what he's doing, nor does it keep us from funneling the equipment the Ukes area using to make him look more and more pathetic each and every day.

Would it be good if they didn't do what they're doing, sure. But they're one country out of many, and in the end, I don't think it'll have a major effect on what's going on in Ukraine

Putin is turning Russia into North Korea 2.0, the country goes further and further in the crapper, and their Middle class keeps leaving in droves, further ensuring their county will be a 3rd world sh*thole country for a very long time.

Germany "blinking" isn't going to change any of that.

---

No he isn't. He's simply not playing ball with the globohomo agenda. The USA will find he is correct in his assessment as we get reamed up the ass when they roll out the digital currency after they finish intentionally destroying our economy.

MouthBQ98 said:

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As a pragmatic concern, they can't quit cold Turkey. They'll have to move incrementally. As bad as doing business with Russia is right now, collapsing the German (and European) economies into an energy driven recession would be worse right now.

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This. Cutting off oil and gas sales immediately will not get Putin to withdraw. There is no substitute for victory in the field if you want to get the Russians out of Ukraine.

Long term, I believe that the Germans and other European countries finally recognize the need to get themselves weaned off Russian energy, but it's going to take 2-3 years to do that in any significant way.

BusterAg said:

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No Spin Ag said:

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Another country has to do what's best for them. Doesn't make Putin any less of a dictator thug for what he's doing, nor does it keep us from funneling the equipment the Ukes area using to make him look more and more pathetic each and every day.

Would it be good if they didn't do what they're doing, sure. But they're one country out of many, and in the end, I don't think it'll have a major effect on what's going on in Ukraine

Putin is turning Russia into North Korea 2.0, the country goes further and further in the crapper, and their Middle class keeps leaving in droves, further ensuring their county will be a 3rd world sh*thole country for a very long time.

Germany "blinking" isn't going to change any of that.

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Well, what is best for the rest of Europe might be to dissolve the EU, or kick Germany out of NATO, too.

I mean, alliances have costs. Germany is risking isolating themselves and tearing down a lot of what they helped build with European unification / cooperation.

Why join economies with a nation that is doing stuff that is directly impacting your national security?

---

I agree, they are risking that, but that's on them and the other European countries to handle. To me, they should be "sucking it up" and go with the flow, but again, that'll be their cross to bear in time.

Pookers said:

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No Spin Ag said:

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Another country has to do what's best for them. Doesn't make Putin any less of a dictator thug for what he's doing, nor does it keep us from funneling the equipment the Ukes area using to make him look more and more pathetic each and every day.

Would it be good if they didn't do what they're doing, sure. But they're one country out of many, and in the end, I don't think it'll have a major effect on what's going on in Ukraine

Putin is turning Russia into North Korea 2.0, the country goes further and further in the crapper, and their Middle class keeps leaving in droves, further ensuring their county will be a 3rd world sh*thole country for a very long time.

Germany "blinking" isn't going to change any of that.

---

No he isn't. He's simply not playing ball with the globohomo agenda. The USA will find he is correct in his assessment as we get reamed up the ass when they roll out the digital currency after they finish intentionally destroying our economy.

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Putin isn't a genius, he's a moron. His decision to invade Ukraine was about as dumb a decision as you could make, and will damage Russia for decades to come.

Germany is praying this thing ends quickly so they can go back to buying Russian gas without any side eyes. They DO NOT want to spend billions building LNG terminals to accept US gas if they don't have too.

twk said:

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Pookers said:

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No Spin Ag said:

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Another country has to do what's best for them. Doesn't make Putin any less of a dictator thug for what he's doing, nor does it keep us from funneling the equipment the Ukes area using to make him look more and more pathetic each and every day.

Would it be good if they didn't do what they're doing, sure. But they're one country out of many, and in the end, I don't think it'll have a major effect on what's going on in Ukraine

Putin is turning Russia into North Korea 2.0, the country goes further and further in the crapper, and their Middle class keeps leaving in droves, further ensuring their county will be a 3rd world sh*thole country for a very long time.

Germany "blinking" isn't going to change any of that.

---

No he isn't. He's simply not playing ball with the globohomo agenda. The USA will find he is correct in his assessment as we get reamed up the ass when they roll out the digital currency after they finish intentionally destroying our economy.

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Putin isn't a genius, he's a moron. His decision to invade Ukraine was about as dumb a decision as you could make, and will damage Russia for decades to come.

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This is a laughably stupid take. A moron doesn't survive in Russia as long as Putin has.

What would you have Russia do? Join the west in their cultural and financial suicide that is being arranged by those who currently occupy the Whitehouse and Federal reserve?

Internal fracking of political ties and integrity. The eastern countries are going to be seething at Germany. Again. France will benefit as their political position will increase as they didn't shut down their nuke plants.

Pookers said:

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twk said:

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Pookers said:

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No Spin Ag said:

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Another country has to do what's best for them. Doesn't make Putin any less of a dictator thug for what he's doing, nor does it keep us from funneling the equipment the Ukes area using to make him look more and more pathetic each and every day.

Would it be good if they didn't do what they're doing, sure. But they're one country out of many, and in the end, I don't think it'll have a major effect on what's going on in Ukraine

Putin is turning Russia into North Korea 2.0, the country goes further and further in the crapper, and their Middle class keeps leaving in droves, further ensuring their county will be a 3rd world sh*thole country for a very long time.

Germany "blinking" isn't going to change any of that.

---

No he isn't. He's simply not playing ball with the globohomo agenda. The USA will find he is correct in his assessment as we get reamed up the ass when they roll out the digital currency after they finish intentionally destroying our economy.

---

Putin isn't a genius, he's a moron. His decision to invade Ukraine was about as dumb a decision as you could make, and will damage Russia for decades to come.

---

This is a laughably stupid take. A moron doesn't survive in Russia as long as Putin has.

What would you have Russia do? Join the west in their cultural and financial suicide that is being arranged by those who currently occupy the Whitehouse and Federal reserve?

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You've got some deep dark problems if you think this was a smart move by Putin. He could have kept doing what he's been doing the last 20 years simply by not invading Ukraine. Instead, he's been swept up by this fantasy of re-establishing Imperial Russia.

How long before Poland and Ukraine simply shut down the pipelines going through their countries? There's more than 1 way to stop the sales...

twk said:

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Pookers said:

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twk said:

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Pookers said:

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No Spin Ag said:

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Another country has to do what's best for them. Doesn't make Putin any less of a dictator thug for what he's doing, nor does it keep us from funneling the equipment the Ukes area using to make him look more and more pathetic each and every day.

Would it be good if they didn't do what they're doing, sure. But they're one country out of many, and in the end, I don't think it'll have a major effect on what's going on in Ukraine

Putin is turning Russia into North Korea 2.0, the country goes further and further in the crapper, and their Middle class keeps leaving in droves, further ensuring their county will be a 3rd world sh*thole country for a very long time.

Germany "blinking" isn't going to change any of that.

---

No he isn't. He's simply not playing ball with the globohomo agenda. The USA will find he is correct in his assessment as we get reamed up the ass when they roll out the digital currency after they finish intentionally destroying our economy.

---

Putin isn't a genius, he's a moron. His decision to invade Ukraine was about as dumb a decision as you could make, and will damage Russia for decades to come.

---

This is a laughably stupid take. A moron doesn't survive in Russia as long as Putin has.

What would you have Russia do? Join the west in their cultural and financial suicide that is being arranged by those who currently occupy the Whitehouse and Federal reserve?

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You've got some deep dark problems if you think this was a smart move by Putin. He could have kept doing what he's been doing the last 20 years simply by not invading Ukraine. Instead, he's been swept up by this fantasy of re-establishing Imperial Russia.

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Has he gone on record of stating this or is this just the west projecting cold war nonsense on to those they would like to go to war with?

Additionally, I don't care one way or another for Putin, but he isn't a moron and the West isn't the bastion of freedom and liberty we think we are. The biggest threat to our daily lives is not in moscow but in DC.

The left took Germany's side and was offended at the things Trump said to them. It's amazing how stupid their logic is on things. Also yes Trump was right AGAIN. It is not because of some brilliance on this issue because it's just common sense.

Pookers said:

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twk said:

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Pookers said:

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twk said:

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Pookers said:

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No Spin Ag said:

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Another country has to do what's best for them. Doesn't make Putin any less of a dictator thug for what he's doing, nor does it keep us from funneling the equipment the Ukes area using to make him look more and more pathetic each and every day.

Would it be good if they didn't do what they're doing, sure. But they're one country out of many, and in the end, I don't think it'll have a major effect on what's going on in Ukraine

Putin is turning Russia into North Korea 2.0, the country goes further and further in the crapper, and their Middle class keeps leaving in droves, further ensuring their county will be a 3rd world sh*thole country for a very long time.

Germany "blinking" isn't going to change any of that.

---

No he isn't. He's simply not playing ball with the globohomo agenda. The USA will find he is correct in his assessment as we get reamed up the ass when they roll out the digital currency after they finish intentionally destroying our economy.

---

Putin isn't a genius, he's a moron. His decision to invade Ukraine was about as dumb a decision as you could make, and will damage Russia for decades to come.

---

This is a laughably stupid take. A moron doesn't survive in Russia as long as Putin has.

What would you have Russia do? Join the west in their cultural and financial suicide that is being arranged by those who currently occupy the Whitehouse and Federal reserve?

---

You've got some deep dark problems if you think this was a smart move by Putin. He could have kept doing what he's been doing the last 20 years simply by not invading Ukraine. Instead, he's been swept up by this fantasy of re-establishing Imperial Russia.

---

Has he gone on record of stating this or is this just the west projecting cold war nonsense on to those they would like to go to war with?

Additionally, I don't care one way or another for Putin, but he isn't a moron and the West isn't the bastion of freedom and liberty we think we are. The biggest threat to our daily lives is not in moscow but in DC.

---

Yes, he's gone on record regarding his aims. The speech he gave just before the Ukraine invasion was quite alarming. Many observers had Putin pigeonholed as a coldly rational ex-spy, but it turns out, he's really got this strange obsession with restoring Imperial Russia (he's no fan of the Bolsheviks, and blames them for "creating" the republics which claimed their independence following the break up of the USSR). Given what he has said on the record, all the former Warsaw Pact countries have legitimate reasons to fear Russian intervention were Putin to succeed in Ukraine. Fortunately for them, Ukraine has been such a fiasco that it will set back the Russian military for a long time to come, which should allow enough time for NATO to re-arm and make any threat to member counties look completely infeasible.

Pookers said:

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twk said:

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Pookers said:

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No Spin Ag said:

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Another country has to do what's best for them. Doesn't make Putin any less of a dictator thug for what he's doing, nor does it keep us from funneling the equipment the Ukes area using to make him look more and more pathetic each and every day.

Would it be good if they didn't do what they're doing, sure. But they're one country out of many, and in the end, I don't think it'll have a major effect on what's going on in Ukraine

Putin is turning Russia into North Korea 2.0, the country goes further and further in the crapper, and their Middle class keeps leaving in droves, further ensuring their county will be a 3rd world sh*thole country for a very long time.

Germany "blinking" isn't going to change any of that.

---

No he isn't. He's simply not playing ball with the globohomo agenda. The USA will find he is correct in his assessment as we get reamed up the ass when they roll out the digital currency after they finish intentionally destroying our economy.

---

Putin isn't a genius, he's a moron. His decision to invade Ukraine was about as dumb a decision as you could make, and will damage Russia for decades to come.

---

This is a laughably stupid take. A moron doesn't survive in Russia as long as Putin has.

What would you have Russia do? Join the west in their cultural and financial suicide that is being arranged by those who currently occupy the Whitehouse and Federal reserve?

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A moron would amass a $640 billion war chest of gold and forex reserves in anticipation of sanctions, and then leave almost half of it parked in Western banks while Russian troops rolled into Ukraine.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-says-capital-controls-were-tit-for-tat-move-after-reserves-were-frozen-2022-03-25/

Quote:

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. . . The sanctions froze around $300 billion of Russia's $640-billion gold and forex reserves, its finance ministry said earlier in March. . . .

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Oops.

Russia's GDP is around 1.48 trillion, so that $300 billion amounts to around 20% of a year's GDP taken out by sanctions only looking at Russia's reserves, and not taking into account the effect on the economy.

Pookers said:

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twk said:

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Pookers said:

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No Spin Ag said:

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Another country has to do what's best for them. Doesn't make Putin any less of a dictator thug for what he's doing, nor does it keep us from funneling the equipment the Ukes area using to make him look more and more pathetic each and every day.

Would it be good if they didn't do what they're doing, sure. But they're one country out of many, and in the end, I don't think it'll have a major effect on what's going on in Ukraine

Putin is turning Russia into North Korea 2.0, the country goes further and further in the crapper, and their Middle class keeps leaving in droves, further ensuring their county will be a 3rd world sh*thole country for a very long time.

Germany "blinking" isn't going to change any of that.

---

No he isn't. He's simply not playing ball with the globohomo agenda. The USA will find he is correct in his assessment as we get reamed up the ass when they roll out the digital currency after they finish intentionally destroying our economy.

---

Putin isn't a genius, he's a moron. His decision to invade Ukraine was about as dumb a decision as you could make, and will damage Russia for decades to come.

---

This is a laughably stupid take. A moron doesn't survive in Russia as long as Putin has.

What would you have Russia do? Join the west in their cultural and financial suicide that is being arranged by those who currently occupy the Whitehouse and Federal reserve?

---

The picture is so much different than what you apparently think, I think that's the real point here. Russia is collapsing already, they don't need to jump on our train to economic doom. Russia isn't what you think it is and neither is Putin. What the past month has shown is that Russia isn't a serious military power anymore which is bad enough but it's also clear that Putin wasn't aware of that fact and that's a really bad look. What exactly in that statement is laughably stupid? A world leader that doesn't understand the capabilities of his military is pretty much the definition of a moron.

That would be pretty drastic for Poland. No reason why Ukraine doesn't just bomb the pipelines in their country.

But, if Poland shuts off their pipelines, it's game over for Germany on this issue.

Poland or Ukraine shutting down the pipelines to other countries would be a serious escalation. Talk about a path to WW3… geez.

Russia's victory or variation/rationalization thereof is very rapidly becoming irrelevant. The $/IMF is now under direct attack and losing that war will be extremely costly to Americans. With the initial response freezing assets and removing Russia from swift, I can only guess that the powers that be realized what was coming via this war from the getgo.

I'm surprised Ukrainenhasnt messed with the pipelines at all. Germany is paying Russia to attack Ukraine. I'd be siphoning off as much resources as needed, and slowing the flow to Germany.

I think people are underestimating how much Poland loathes Putin and how angry they are with Germany.

Russia surely counted on this

Germany is caught between a rock and a hard place. It's a predicament of its own making, for sure, but that doesn't change the economic consequences of abruptly cutting off Russian energy. In the meantime, Berlin is renting three floating LNG import terminals and has committed to building two on-shore LNG terminals. Additionally:

"By the middle of the year, Russian oil imports to Germany are expected to be halved. By the end of the year, we aim to be almost independent," a document published by the Ministry for Economic Affairs and Climate Action said. The plan also calls for coal deliveries from Russia to end by the autumn.

Habeck confirmed that current contracts with Russian companies to import energy will not be renewed. He also acknowledged that Germany would only be able to wean itself off Russian gas deliveries by mid-2024."

HARD CHOICES

ChemEAg08 said:

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Trump was right yet again.

When conservatives are right, we know it.

When leftists are wrong, they memory hole reality and make up their own history.

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Trump was right

Anyone with a functioning brain should have been able to see this coming

74OA said:

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Germany is caught between a rock and a hard place. It's a predicament of its own making, for sure, but that doesn't change the economic consequences of abruptly cutting off Russian energy. In the meantime:

"By the middle of the year, Russian oil imports to Germany are expected to be halved. By the end of the year, we aim to be almost independent," a document published by the Ministry for Economic Affairs and Climate Action said. The plan also calls for coal deliveries from Russia to end by the autumn.

Habeck confirmed that current contracts with Russian companies to import energy will not be renewed. He also acknowledged that Germany would only be able to wean itself off Russian gas deliveries by mid-2024."

HARD CHOICES

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Then someone else will have to be shorted to provide that oil to them, which means oil prices rise significantly because of overall supply reduction, or Russia sells its oil to others that were shorted. This is all whack a mole.

The US is not producing more because of Biden, so we arent going to be selling it to them. Who is? It looks like much higher oil prices because of supply constraints.

74OA said:

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Germany is caught between a rock and a hard place. It's a predicament of its own making, for sure, but that doesn't change the economic consequences of abruptly cutting off Russian energy. In the meantime, Berlin is renting three floating LNG import terminals and has committed to building two on-shore LNG terminals. Additionally:

"By the middle of the year, Russian oil imports to Germany are expected to be halved. By the end of the year, we aim to be almost independent," a document published by the Ministry for Economic Affairs and Climate Action said. The plan also calls for coal deliveries from Russia to end by the autumn.

Habeck confirmed that current contracts with Russian companies to import energy will not be renewed. He also acknowledged that Germany would only be able to wean itself off Russian gas deliveries by mid-2024."

HARD CHOICES

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Br a real shame if Ukraine and Poland made those decisions for Germany. Regardless of what German can do and when, they're paying Putin to wage genocide. There's a real quick way to end one of Putin's revenue sources. And Germany doesn't have much of a standing offer. Not like they're going to roll panzers anytime soon.

BASF

Steam crackers

/thread

AlaskanAg99 said:

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I'm surprised Ukrainenhasnt messed with the pipelines at all. Germany is paying Russia to attack Ukraine. I'd be siphoning off as much resources as needed, and slowing the flow to Germany.

I think people are underestimating how much Poland loathes Putin and how angry they are with Germany.

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It would be funny if they just re-directed the flow of gas down an almost empty dry natural gas well or some other underground storage.

Just steal all of the gas from Russia that comes through.

Maybe you piss of Germany, but, well, too bad.

AlaskanAg99 said:

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74OA said:

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Germany is caught between a rock and a hard place. It's a predicament of its own making, for sure, but that doesn't change the economic consequences of abruptly cutting off Russian energy. In the meantime, Berlin is renting three floating LNG import terminals and has committed to building two on-shore LNG terminals. Additionally:

"By the middle of the year, Russian oil imports to Germany are expected to be halved. By the end of the year, we aim to be almost independent," a document published by the Ministry for Economic Affairs and Climate Action said. The plan also calls for coal deliveries from Russia to end by the autumn.

Habeck confirmed that current contracts with Russian companies to import energy will not be renewed. He also acknowledged that Germany would only be able to wean itself off Russian gas deliveries by mid-2024."

HARD CHOICES

---

Br a real shame if Ukraine and Poland made those decisions for Germany. Regardless of what German can do and when, they're paying Putin to wage genocide. There's a real quick way to end one of Putin's revenue sources. And Germany doesn't have much of a standing offer. Not like they're going to roll panzers anytime soon.

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Quickly weaning Germany off of Russian natural gas without inflicting major damage on its economy is the hardest part.

The upside is that the weaning process is already underway, with the goal of reducing Russian gas imports by two-third by the end of '22 and all gas imports by mid-2024.

That's not "immediate", but it still represents a big economic hit to Russia on a short timeline and Germany is acting quicker than the EU as a whole.

EU ENERGY PLAN

AgResearch said:

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BASF

Steam crackers

/thread

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It's war. It's complicated, it's messy.