This was in Bloomberg last week. I got an email blast from Greenwald which is behind a pay wall and he referenced it.

"Reading this carefully, I conclude that the U.S. intends to keep this war going….I have evidence from other sources to corroborate this. "The only end game now," a senior administration official was heard to say at a private event earlier this month, "is the end of Putin regime"…..I gather that senior British figures are talking in similar terms. There is a belief that "the U.K.'s No. 1 option is for the conflict to be extended and thereby bleed Putin." Again and again, I hear such language. It helps explain, among other things, the lack of any diplomatic effort by the U.S. to secure a cease-fire. It also explains the readiness of President Joe Biden to call Putin a war criminal."


This admin and the world elites don't care what it costs you. Food shortages, inflation, high gas prices, wealth destruction, etc..

They will drag this war out. Screw the number of casualties. They have a plan thats part of the new world order. Even if Putin withdraws, they will continue with the policies.

The Marxists have won with the help of the conservatives in this country. You worked and saved all your life only to watch Biden destroy your wealth with his inflationary polices and because he and the Libs are mad at Putin for 2016. When you look at your devalued dollar, I hope Ukraine was worth it.

Libs can piss right off with the "we care about the people of Ukraine". Yeah, so much so that no cease fire is being attempted. No diplomacy at all.

The people of Ukraine are screwed as they always have been going back hundreds of years. They are blessed and cursed by geography of valuable land that is impossible to defend surrounded by powerful countries.

Your analysis isn't quite full circle though, the goal is to bleed this thing in Ukraine to keep Putin from invading a NATO country which is next on his list after Moldova (which is a blip). Once he invades a NATO country (Poland, Latvia, Lithuania, or Estonia) we are obligated to respond. We will win the conventional war easily but the question is if Putin then pushes the button.

Calling for regime change is insane. It feeds into Putin's paranoia and makes him feel like surrender or compromise means his own demise. That's how you get a desperate response. Oh, and there is also no reason to think that whomever replaces Putin will be better. Most likely you have no one and you end up with chaos/civil war in a country with thousands of nuclear weapons.

The idea of openly calling for Putin's removal is beyond irresponsible.

Marcus Brutus said:

---

This was in Bloomberg last week. I got an email blast from Greenwald which is behind a pay wall and he referenced it.

"Reading this carefully, I conclude that the U.S. intends to keep this war going….I have evidence from other sources to corroborate this. "The only end game now," a senior administration official was heard to say at a private event earlier this month, "is the end of Putin regime"…..I gather that senior British figures are talking in similar terms. There is a belief that "the U.K.'s No. 1 option is for the conflict to be extended and thereby bleed Putin." Again and again, I hear such language. It helps explain, among other things, the lack of any diplomatic effort by the U.S. to secure a cease-fire. It also explains the readiness of President Joe Biden to call Putin a war criminal."


This admin and the world elites don't care what it costs you. Food shortages, inflation, high gas prices, wealth destruction, etc..

They will drag this war out. Even if Putin withdraws, they will continue with the policies. Screw the number of casualties. They have a plan thats part of the new world order.

The Marxists have won with the help of the conservatives in this country. You worked and saved all your life only to watch Biden destroy your wealth with his inflationary polices and because he and the Libs are mad at Putin for 2016. When you look at your devalued dollar, I hope Ukraine was worth it.

Libs can piss right off with the "we care about the people of Ukraine". Yeah, so much so that no cease fire is being attempted. No diplomacy at all.

---

This is so obvious.

Brain dead RINOs and crafty leftist with their sacrificial lamb Zelensky.

Just curious, how do we know Putin plans to attack a NATO country?

Is that just an assumption that one he's in Ukraine, NATO is next?

Delusional that this demented President would be able to take down Putin

jefe95 said:

---

Just curious, how do we know Putin plans to attack a NATO country?

Is that just an assumption that one he's in Ukraine, NATO is next?

---

Looking at a map. Attacking Ukraine serves little purpose if he doesn't continue to move North and secure the gaps there from a security perspective. That's always been the goal as it is fundamental to Russia to prevent future invasions.

We continue to give Ukraine defensive weapons to extend the conflict and not the offensive weapons they need to actually win it.

When it is finally over, foreign aid will pour in to rebuild their country and the Big Guy and so many more will skim untold billions off the top. Money stolen from the innocents who needlessly gave their lives.

Security from what?

Is there a NATO country trying to invade Russia?

aggie93 said:

---

jefe95 said:

---

Just curious, how do we know Putin plans to attack a NATO country?

Is that just an assumption that one he's in Ukraine, NATO is next?

---

Looking at a map. Attacking Ukraine serves little purpose if he doesn't continue to move North and secure the gaps there from a security perspective. That's always been the goal as it is fundamental to Russia to prevent future invasions.

---

It's also not fundamentally about NATO it's about Poland, Estonia, Lituania, and Latvia. It was foolish for us to ever allow them in NATO because it was always going to provoke Russia. The US doesn't think about invasion but Russia does, they have been invaded 50 times in their history.

Peter Zeihan videos have been making appearances on this board.

Zeihan has been saying in videos that were made well before, sometimes several years before now, that not only would Russia invade no later than 2022 but the US response would be to make sure the fight lasted as long as possible to bleed them of manpower. And manpower was the driving force of his prediction as Russia has a major and worsening demographic problem.

He gives more depth of the how and why but since he was talking about this topic years ago have to think this was the US Strategy from day 1. Make Russia's conquest of Ukraine long and bloody even if they win. Because as he also points out Russia doesn't have the manpower to occupy Ukraine.

IMHO, it is already over, and we are just going through the flop while everyone places their bets.

The US has decided to let Ukraine go. Putin wants this to be a drawn out war because he knows the US/global news cycle will forget about it when the next variant pops up.

If those labs in Ukraine are part of any biological resiliency programs, he may already have it…

Biden has been exploiting Ukraine for years and now he welcomes Putin to clean up the mess.

jefe95 said:

---

Security from what?

Is there a NATO country trying to invade Russia?

---

Not today but this is about the future. Russia is quite literally dying demographically. They won't be capable of protecting themselves 30 years from now if they don't control those areas because they won't be able to filed a military capable of doing so. Remember Russia has constantly been invaded throughout its history and usually it comes through Poland, Crimea, or to the North.

Americans just don't think about it because the last time anyone invaded here was Canada in 1812 and certainly no one is capable of doing it in our lifetimes.

Madman said:

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Peter Zeihan videos have been making appearances on this board.

Zeihan has been saying in videos that were made well before, sometimes several years before now, that not only would Russia invade no later than 2022 but the US response would be to make sure the fight lasted as long as possible to bleed them of manpower. And manpower was the driving force of his prediction as Russia has a major and worsening demographic problem.

He gives more depth of the how and why but since he was talking about this topic years ago have to think this was the US Strategy from day 1. Make Russia's conquest of Ukraine long and bloody even if they win. Because as he also points out Russia doesn't have the manpower to occupy Ukraine.

---

Yep. Zeihan actually looks at the facts and explains the situation better than anyone else I have heard. So much of the news focuses on the wrong things and doesn't give perspective.

aggie93 said:

---

jefe95 said:

---

Security from what?

Is there a NATO country trying to invade Russia?

---

Not today but this is about the future. Russia is quite literally dying demographically. They won't be capable of protecting themselves 30 years from now if they don't control those areas because they won't be able to filed a military capable of doing so. Remember Russia has constantly been invaded throughout its history and usually it comes through Poland, Crimea, or to the North.

Americans just don't think about it because the last time anyone invaded here was Canada in 1812 and certainly no one is capable of doing it in our lifetimes.

---

We're being invaded right now and we have been for a long time. People don't see it that way because this is the only time in history a country (of any importance, anyway) has literally subsidized and participated their own invasion. You don't need military force to invade the U.S., there's apparently a loophole in which you skip the tanks part and just send in mass waves of foreign civilians and we'll pay you to do it and punish our own citizens for resisting it.

Russia wouldn't need to send its military in first if they could just march 10s of millions of civilians in instead and if Ukraine said "yes please, send us every uneducated jobless Russian and criminal you have over the border and we'll pay for them to replace us." Except no other country in the world is as insane as the U.S. to refuse to defend its own border.

It's not just in the US's interests, but other nations as well, for this to drag on and bleed Russia of their resources. It's history repeating itself (Russia in Afghanistan).

Things are quite a bit more complicated now, but the longer this goes, the worse for Russia.

AgGrad99 said:

---

It's in not just the US's interests, but other nations as well, for this to drag on and bleed Russia of their resources. It's history repeating itself (Russia in Afghanistan).

Things are quite a bit more complicated now, but the longer this goes, the worse for Russia.

---

Sucks for the Ukrainians I guess.

Proc92 said:

---

AgGrad99 said:

---

It's in not just the US's interests, but other nations as well, for this to drag on and bleed Russia of their resources. It's history repeating itself (Russia in Afghanistan).

Things are quite a bit more complicated now, but the longer this goes, the worse for Russia.

---

Sucks for the Ukrainians I guess.

---

Agreed. Just like it did the Afghans. Terrible really.

the war needs a winner --- but as previously mentioned that's not the plan of the western leaders.

the ongoing war helps cover up their many problems at home

jefe95 said:

---

Security from what?

Is there a NATO country trying to invade Russia?

---

This "Russia needs to plug the 7 or whatever gaps from invasion!" stuff is dumb. It's the reasoning that people who are trying to reason Putin invading NATO are putting forth so their whole crazy theory makes sense.

The Baltic countries definitely is going to invade Russia and ensure its soldiers gets nuked in the not so distant future, just because. HTH

Joes said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

jefe95 said:

---

Security from what?

Is there a NATO country trying to invade Russia?

---

Not today but this is about the future. Russia is quite literally dying demographically. They won't be capable of protecting themselves 30 years from now if they don't control those areas because they won't be able to filed a military capable of doing so. Remember Russia has constantly been invaded throughout its history and usually it comes through Poland, Crimea, or to the North.

Americans just don't think about it because the last time anyone invaded here was Canada in 1812 and certainly no one is capable of doing it in our lifetimes.

---

We're being invaded right now and we have been for a long time. People don't see it that way because this is the only time in history a country (of any importance, anyway) has literally subsidized and participated their own invasion. You don't need military force to invade the U.S., there's apparently a loophole in which you skip the tanks part and just send in mass waves of foreign civilians and we'll pay you to do it and punish our own citizens for resisting it.

Russia wouldn't need to send its military in first if they could just march 10s of millions of civilians in instead and if Ukraine said "yes please, send us every uneducated jobless Russian and criminal you have over the border and we'll pay for them to replace us." Except no other country in the world is as insane as the U.S. to refuse to defend its own border.

---

While I don't disagree with your premise of the border issue it is not remotely the same. We can also lock down our border anytime we want if we have the will to do it. Mexico or Canada isn't going to send an invading army across the border anytime soon though in a legitimate way. Please don't distract the thread talking about a very different kind of invasion that is irrelevant to the topic at hand.

The point is Russia has wide open borders all over the place and has had military invasions dozens of times from all directions. They can only prevent that by stopping the gaps where those military invasions come through. Eventually they will be invaded again, personally I would put my money on Turkey eventually encroaching first and trying to make the Black Sea their lake, that's likely why Putin prioritized Georgia, Crimea, and Ukraine first as well.

I think the Brandon admin is desperate to push Putin into doing something stupid like using chemical weapons on civilians to give them the needed pretext for invading Ukraine

The Dems are DESPERATE for us to get dragged into a shooting war to try and save them in the polls before a midterm

lb3 said:

---

We continue to give Ukraine defensive weapons to extend the conflict and not the offensive weapons they need to actually win it.

When it is finally over, foreign aid will pour in to rebuild their country and the Big Guy and so many more will skim untold billions off the top. Money stolen from the innocents who needlessly gave their lives.

---

And you can't understand why we would give lots of defensive weapons and not offensive weapons? Isn't it obvious. We want Ukraine to fight the war…not us. If we join the battle aggressively then others join in and we have a true WWIII.

This board is weird.

AgGrad99 said:

---

It's not just in the US's interests, but other nations as well, for this to drag on and bleed Russia of their resources. It's history repeating itself (Russia in Afghanistan).

Things are quite a bit more complicated now, but the longer this goes, the worse for Russia.

---

Actually sound strategic. Like if I could make the decision I would do the same thing. Make it impossible for Russia to win. But also keep Putin from making any short term decisions that lets him save face and guard his military build up for a later invasion.

I guess I'm really just a globalist like Klaus Schwab. To some of you…if one wants to severally weaken a bullie regime intent on building back his Soviet Union and put 200 million freedom living westerners back into the Soviet influence is to be a Klaus Achwab acolyte.

Actually. Worse still on me I guess…but Biden is doing alright so far. He called out the invasions weeks before it happened. He called out the Putin plan to creat a false flag operation days before it happened. Against every impulse the idiot Biden has ever had his people are driving him to the correct course of action so far.

aggie93 said:

---

Joes said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

jefe95 said:

---

Security from what?

Is there a NATO country trying to invade Russia?

---

Not today but this is about the future. Russia is quite literally dying demographically. They won't be capable of protecting themselves 30 years from now if they don't control those areas because they won't be able to filed a military capable of doing so. Remember Russia has constantly been invaded throughout its history and usually it comes through Poland, Crimea, or to the North.

Americans just don't think about it because the last time anyone invaded here was Canada in 1812 and certainly no one is capable of doing it in our lifetimes.

---

We're being invaded right now and we have been for a long time. People don't see it that way because this is the only time in history a country (of any importance, anyway) has literally subsidized and participated their own invasion. You don't need military force to invade the U.S., there's apparently a loophole in which you skip the tanks part and just send in mass waves of foreign civilians and we'll pay you to do it and punish our own citizens for resisting it.

Russia wouldn't need to send its military in first if they could just march 10s of millions of civilians in instead and if Ukraine said "yes please, send us every uneducated jobless Russian and criminal you have over the border and we'll pay for them to replace us." Except no other country in the world is as insane as the U.S. to refuse to defend its own border.

---

While I don't disagree with your premise of the border issue it is not remotely the same. We can also lock down our border anytime we want if we have the will to do it. Mexico or Canada isn't going to send an invading army across the border anytime soon though in a legitimate way. Please don't distract the thread talking about a very different kind of invasion that is irrelevant to the topic at hand.

The point is Russia has wide open borders all over the place and has had military invasions dozens of times from all directions. They can only prevent that by stopping the gaps where those military invasions come through. Eventually they will be invaded again, personally I would put my money on Turkey eventually encroaching first and trying to make the Black Sea their lake, that's likely why Putin prioritized Georgia, Crimea, and Ukraine first as well.

---

I dont think you make any sense whatsoever on open russian border defense and closing gaps as logical reason why russia invaded ukraine.

aggie93 said:

---

Joes said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

jefe95 said:

---

Security from what?

Is there a NATO country trying to invade Russia?

---

Not today but this is about the future. Russia is quite literally dying demographically. They won't be capable of protecting themselves 30 years from now if they don't control those areas because they won't be able to filed a military capable of doing so. Remember Russia has constantly been invaded throughout its history and usually it comes through Poland, Crimea, or to the North.

Americans just don't think about it because the last time anyone invaded here was Canada in 1812 and certainly no one is capable of doing it in our lifetimes.

---

We're being invaded right now and we have been for a long time. People don't see it that way because this is the only time in history a country (of any importance, anyway) has literally subsidized and participated their own invasion. You don't need military force to invade the U.S., there's apparently a loophole in which you skip the tanks part and just send in mass waves of foreign civilians and we'll pay you to do it and punish our own citizens for resisting it.

Russia wouldn't need to send its military in first if they could just march 10s of millions of civilians in instead and if Ukraine said "yes please, send us every uneducated jobless Russian and criminal you have over the border and we'll pay for them to replace us." Except no other country in the world is as insane as the U.S. to refuse to defend its own border.

---

While I don't disagree with your premise of the border issue it is not remotely the same. We can also lock down our border anytime we want if we have the will to do it. Mexico or Canada isn't going to send an invading army across the border anytime soon though in a legitimate way. Please don't distract the thread talking about a very different kind of invasion that is irrelevant to the topic at hand.

The point is Russia has wide open borders all over the place and has had military invasions dozens of times from all directions. They can only prevent that by stopping the gaps where those military invasions come through. Eventually they will be invaded again, personally I would put my money on Turkey eventually encroaching first and trying to make the Black Sea their lake, that's likely why Putin prioritized Georgia, Crimea, and Ukraine first as well.

---

Wrong, it's the exact same. The whole reason any army has ever invaded is to displace the target country's citizens with their own by force because there was no other way to do it. That's exactly what Russia wants to do except Ukraine won't let them just walk millions of Russian citizens across per year to displace Ukrainians and vote to put in Russians in power.

The only distinction is our invaders aren't in uniform. That's it. But the result is the same. The only reason there are no bombs falling here is we've made it unnecessary, we won't resist. They've just skipped the violent part that's otherwise always been required throughout history because no one else has ever said "Please come in limitless millions and take everything we have and replace our culture with all of yours, we actually want you to!"

If the Russians had any sense they'd just start sending passenger ships loaded with soldiers in civilian clothes and offload them in waves on our beaches and we'd say "oh look, more "undocumented migrants", come on in!

aggie93 said:

---

The people of Ukraine are screwed as they always have been going back hundreds of years. They are blessed and cursed by geography of valuable land that is impossible to defend surrounded by powerful countries.

Your analysis isn't quite full circle though, the goal is to bleed this thing in Ukraine to keep Putin from invading a NATO country which is next on his list after Moldova (which is a blip). Once he invades a NATO country (Poland, Latvia, Lithuania, or Estonia) we are obligated to respond. We will win the conventional war easily but the question is if Putin then pushes the button.

Calling for regime change is insane. It feeds into Putin's paranoia and makes him feel like surrender or compromise means his own demise. That's how you get a desperate response. Oh, and there is also no reason to think that whomever replaces Putin will be better. Most likely you have no one and you end up with chaos/civil war in a country with thousands of nuclear weapons.

The idea of openly calling for Putin's removal is beyond irresponsible.

---

Never underestimate Joe Biden's ability to fhk up

Joes said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

Joes said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

jefe95 said:

---

Security from what?

Is there a NATO country trying to invade Russia?

---

Not today but this is about the future. Russia is quite literally dying demographically. They won't be capable of protecting themselves 30 years from now if they don't control those areas because they won't be able to filed a military capable of doing so. Remember Russia has constantly been invaded throughout its history and usually it comes through Poland, Crimea, or to the North.

Americans just don't think about it because the last time anyone invaded here was Canada in 1812 and certainly no one is capable of doing it in our lifetimes.

---

We're being invaded right now and we have been for a long time. People don't see it that way because this is the only time in history a country (of any importance, anyway) has literally subsidized and participated their own invasion. You don't need military force to invade the U.S., there's apparently a loophole in which you skip the tanks part and just send in mass waves of foreign civilians and we'll pay you to do it and punish our own citizens for resisting it.

Russia wouldn't need to send its military in first if they could just march 10s of millions of civilians in instead and if Ukraine said "yes please, send us every uneducated jobless Russian and criminal you have over the border and we'll pay for them to replace us." Except no other country in the world is as insane as the U.S. to refuse to defend its own border.

---

While I don't disagree with your premise of the border issue it is not remotely the same. We can also lock down our border anytime we want if we have the will to do it. Mexico or Canada isn't going to send an invading army across the border anytime soon though in a legitimate way. Please don't distract the thread talking about a very different kind of invasion that is irrelevant to the topic at hand.

The point is Russia has wide open borders all over the place and has had military invasions dozens of times from all directions. They can only prevent that by stopping the gaps where those military invasions come through. Eventually they will be invaded again, personally I would put my money on Turkey eventually encroaching first and trying to make the Black Sea their lake, that's likely why Putin prioritized Georgia, Crimea, and Ukraine first as well.

---

Wrong, it's the exact same. The whole reason any army has ever invaded is to displace the target country's citizens with their own by force because there was no other way to do it. That's exactly what Russia wants to do except Ukraine won't let them just walk millions of Russian citizens across per year to displace Ukrainians and vote to put in Russians in power.

The only distinction is our invaders aren't in uniform. That's it. But the result is the same. The only reason there are no bombs falling here is we've made it unnecessary, we won't resist. They've just skipped the violent part that's otherwise always been required throughout history because no one else has ever said "Please come in limitless millions and take everything we have and replace our culture with all of yours, we actually want you to!"

If the Russians had any sense they'd just start sending passenger ships loaded with soldiers in civilian clothes and offload them in waves on our beaches and we'd say "oh look, more "undocumented migrants", come on in!

---

K. Well unless we are going to invade Mexico the point doesn't hold. I'm not disagreeing with you about the threat I am disagreeing with you about how they are comparable.

JFABNRGR said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

Joes said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

jefe95 said:

---

Security from what?

Is there a NATO country trying to invade Russia?

---

Not today but this is about the future. Russia is quite literally dying demographically. They won't be capable of protecting themselves 30 years from now if they don't control those areas because they won't be able to filed a military capable of doing so. Remember Russia has constantly been invaded throughout its history and usually it comes through Poland, Crimea, or to the North.

Americans just don't think about it because the last time anyone invaded here was Canada in 1812 and certainly no one is capable of doing it in our lifetimes.

---

We're being invaded right now and we have been for a long time. People don't see it that way because this is the only time in history a country (of any importance, anyway) has literally subsidized and participated their own invasion. You don't need military force to invade the U.S., there's apparently a loophole in which you skip the tanks part and just send in mass waves of foreign civilians and we'll pay you to do it and punish our own citizens for resisting it.

Russia wouldn't need to send its military in first if they could just march 10s of millions of civilians in instead and if Ukraine said "yes please, send us every uneducated jobless Russian and criminal you have over the border and we'll pay for them to replace us." Except no other country in the world is as insane as the U.S. to refuse to defend its own border.

---

While I don't disagree with your premise of the border issue it is not remotely the same. We can also lock down our border anytime we want if we have the will to do it. Mexico or Canada isn't going to send an invading army across the border anytime soon though in a legitimate way. Please don't distract the thread talking about a very different kind of invasion that is irrelevant to the topic at hand.

The point is Russia has wide open borders all over the place and has had military invasions dozens of times from all directions. They can only prevent that by stopping the gaps where those military invasions come through. Eventually they will be invaded again, personally I would put my money on Turkey eventually encroaching first and trying to make the Black Sea their lake, that's likely why Putin prioritized Georgia, Crimea, and Ukraine first as well.

---

I dont think you make any sense whatsoever on open russian border defense and closing gaps as logical reason why russia invaded ukraine.

---

Then you need to study Geography more closely and watch some Zeihan videos or interviews. It's the only logical reason. Russia doesn't have any other real reason unless you buy into the "Putin is a crazy man and just likes invading places" narrative.

WestAustinAg said:

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AgGrad99 said:

---

It's not just in the US's interests, but other nations as well, for this to drag on and bleed Russia of their resources. It's history repeating itself (Russia in Afghanistan).

Things are quite a bit more complicated now, but the longer this goes, the worse for Russia.

---

Actually sound strategic. Like if I could make the decision I would do the same thing. Make it impossible for Russia to win. But also keep Putin from making any short term decisions that lets him save face and guard his military build up for a later invasion.

I guess I'm really just a globalist like Klaus Schwab. To some of you…if one wants to severally weaken a bullie regime intent on building back his Soviet Union and put 200 million freedom living westerners back into the Soviet influence is to be a Klaus Achwab acolyte.

Actually. Worse still on me I guess…but Biden is doing alright so far. He called out the invasions weeks before it happened. He called out the Putin plan to creat a false flag operation days before it happened. Against every impulse the idiot Biden has ever had his people are driving him to the correct course of action so far.

---

It seems like he's been threading the needle to me too, which is surprising given how inept the administration has been at practically everything else.

Quote:

---

Calling for regime change is insane. It feeds into Putin's paranoia and makes him feel like surrender or compromise means his own demise. That's how you get a desperate response. Oh, and there is also no reason to think that whomever replaces Putin will be better. Most likely you have no one and you end up with chaos/civil war in a country with thousands of nuclear weapons.

The idea of openly calling for Putin's removal is beyond irresponsible.

---

Completely agree.

That was a bonehead move on Biden's part. Literally, nothing to gain and everything to lose. You don't poke a crazy bear that has a red button. And it's impossible to walk that back. It's not like he can apologize.

The public statements should be firm, but also appeal to a human side. Like, "President Putin, the world will not allow these atrocities to continue. Let us negotiate a peace for the future of Russia and Ukraine. Your people share the same blood, the same culture, and a proud history. It's not too late to change this trajectory, but the violence must come to an end..."

There will be some bull**** in there, and Putin isn't exactly a sentimental guy, so you're not going to sweet talk him personally, but that tact will actually apply more pressure than attacking him did.

jefe95 said:

---

Security from what?

Is there a NATO country trying to invade Russia?

---

No, there's not.

But as I understand it, here is the mentality at play...

Putin and many Russians believe NATO's singular purpose is to be a military counterbalance to their country. And they're not entirely wrong. Whether Russia brought it upon itself or not is irrelevant. That's the perception and where we are at.

So, as they see the NATO map squeezing further and further east on them, they start to get skittish about it. Not to mention a little butt-hurt.

If everyone in your neighborhood started a club and the club's charter was how to deal with your family, I could see that being a little off-putting. And then your old drinking buddies join the club, and then your ex-wife joins and she lives right next door in a house you bought and she got it in the divorce.

I think that's where Putin is.

I'm not saying Putin is justified in any way, and that is an absurd oversimplification, but somebody explained it to me that way and it helped me make a little more sense out of the Putin headspace.

JFABNRGR said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

Joes said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

jefe95 said:

---

Security from what?

Is there a NATO country trying to invade Russia?

---

Not today but this is about the future. Russia is quite literally dying demographically. They won't be capable of protecting themselves 30 years from now if they don't control those areas because they won't be able to filed a military capable of doing so. Remember Russia has constantly been invaded throughout its history and usually it comes through Poland, Crimea, or to the North.

Americans just don't think about it because the last time anyone invaded here was Canada in 1812 and certainly no one is capable of doing it in our lifetimes.

---

We're being invaded right now and we have been for a long time. People don't see it that way because this is the only time in history a country (of any importance, anyway) has literally subsidized and participated their own invasion. You don't need military force to invade the U.S., there's apparently a loophole in which you skip the tanks part and just send in mass waves of foreign civilians and we'll pay you to do it and punish our own citizens for resisting it.

Russia wouldn't need to send its military in first if they could just march 10s of millions of civilians in instead and if Ukraine said "yes please, send us every uneducated jobless Russian and criminal you have over the border and we'll pay for them to replace us." Except no other country in the world is as insane as the U.S. to refuse to defend its own border.

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While I don't disagree with your premise of the border issue it is not remotely the same. We can also lock down our border anytime we want if we have the will to do it. Mexico or Canada isn't going to send an invading army across the border anytime soon though in a legitimate way. Please don't distract the thread talking about a very different kind of invasion that is irrelevant to the topic at hand.

The point is Russia has wide open borders all over the place and has had military invasions dozens of times from all directions. They can only prevent that by stopping the gaps where those military invasions come through. Eventually they will be invaded again, personally I would put my money on Turkey eventually encroaching first and trying to make the Black Sea their lake, that's likely why Putin prioritized Georgia, Crimea, and Ukraine first as well.

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I dont think you make any sense whatsoever on open russian border defense and closing gaps as logical reason why russia invaded ukraine.

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Two facts:

1. Russia has been invaded something like 50 times. It's part of their national identity and a huge motivator for their actions over a really long period of time. their borders as they exist today are pretty much impossible to defend. The borders of what was the Soviet Union were in place for a reason that being to use geography to create borders that were defensible.
2. Demographically speaking Russia is less than 50 years from not having enough young men to be capable of defending their nation as it exists today.

Now combine those two and it's obvious why they're doing this. It's about physical security in a collapsing nation.

Quote:

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with the help of the conservatives in this country.

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I have not paid much attention to this conflict, but I'm curious about this line. OP, care to expound on that point?