One upon a time they were somewhat normal.

California sucks, but kardashians are hot and also suck

And wealthy!

They really aren't, I understand why people hate them but they are beautiful women, except maybe khloe.

My great granduncle moved there in 1955 from Texas. He had so many great stories of California in the 50s and 60s.

The leaders who have destroyed that great state continue to think they will remain safe, in perpetuity, behind the white walls of their ivory towers. It won't be long until even the elites get a rude, wake up call. Really all of us will.

I used to live in Vegas and half of Vegas is from California. That meant that I automatically didn't like half of the people in my city.

At the time I had stores in Greater LA and had to fly into Burbank about once a month. Hated that trip and couldn't wait to leave every time.

Had one store in San Diego and that trip was always a good day.

It's really hard to put a finger on what I didn't like about it. It wasn't the progressive liberal stuff. I spent 18 months in Seattle around the same time and loved it. For some reason I could never find a good routine out in California. It was always a ****ty hotel, or restaurant, or traffic, etc. that would screw up a trip. And I never really cared for any of the people.

I lived in San Diego as a kid. Great weather. My elementary school had no cafeteria, just picnic tables outside. We also had outdoor hallways. The classrooms, library and the gymnasium were indoors but that was it.

I don't remember anything being liberal/conservative, but I was young.

The good:
1. Creative and iconoclast culture - There's a reason SV and Hollywood are in California. There's also a reason that SV is moving to Austin, and not Houston. Culture does matter and California is in general far more permissive of alternative thought than other parts of the country.

2. The weather and geography - Undeniable beauty. My wife is a very accomplished marathon runner and running year round with access to great trails and hills is a huge draw. I like to surf. A McMansion in McKinney might give us better $/sqft, but at what cost to our lifestyle of things we really like to do in life.

3. Access to wealth - This matter a lot more to starting and growing a business than dumb tax regimes. Complaining endlessly about the $800 / year LLC fees is right, but that has to be balanced against how easy it has been to raise money here for my business.

The bad:
1. Bad governance:

• Taxes are out of control. Part of this is progressives that never learn you can't tax your way out of trouble, part of this is bad public policy from voters (Prop 13). My property taxes in CA are probably lower than yours in TX and I live in million home. They won't go up more than 2% per year by law. That necessarily means that taxes have to come from income, placing an undue burden on the asset-less class that makes up a larger and larger portion of our state.
• Soft on crime. I supported initiatives that looked good in pilot programs. Drug decriminalization. Bail reform. Housing for homeless. It's clear now that these don't work at scale and the unintended consequences are much more severe than the benefits. The state has been far too slow to pivot

2. How point 2 above contribute to problems:

• Geography - San Francisco is a highly developed city on a peninsula with almost no empty lots and LA has the same issue with the ocean. Transposing a DFW or Houston paradigm on these cities won't work. We don't have the same room to grow housing supply without going vertical or infill. CA has passed great laws for ADUs and making all SFH zoning anywhere in the state eligible for building up to 4 units. That increases supply, thats great, but we're still severly limited in housing supply.
  
  People often marvel that housing and rent in LA and SF are going up when everyone seems to be leaving. That's because there's still not nearly enough supply. Families live in cramped multi-generation housing.
  
  
• Weather - Irrespective of other unintended consequences and soft on crime, all else equal I'd rather be a homeless heroin addict in LA than Dallas. The weather here will attract vagrants and ne'er-do-wells at a higher rate than other places.

15 years in San Diego, **** really started going downhill in '05 when housing went through the roof. The crash and everything since has been just downhill. I've been gone 7 years and haven't been back since '19. Apparently things are just worse overall. Always hated LA and SF used to be fun but that place has been a dump for 15 years now. I still love San Diego, but I do not want to live there.

I have relatives in California (LA area). They've lived there many years.

They love the weather, obviously. But the lifestyle available there has been diminished by the hordes of people, crime, taxes, cost of living, etc. It's a trade-off, but over the past decade or more the scales have become more lopsided.

cecil77 said:

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Spent time this weekend with relatives from both SF and LA. I've always presumed they were liberal and woke.
I think they're liberal, but neither woke nor progressive. All of them disparaged CA for the same things we do. Another older Texan relative who's always been proudly liberal was almost apologetic about it now.

I sense that things may be beginning to change for the better.

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They'll just cheat harder.

Liberals ruin everything.

The days of Republican governors and prosperity in that state have been replaced by single party rule by a bunch of communists. They have ruined the once great state, and it is hard to see how they ever turn things around unless they can collectively come to the realization that socialism/communism never, ever works.

Malibu2 said:

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The good:
1. Creative and iconoclast culture - There's a reason SV and Hollywood are in California. There's also a reason that SV is moving to Austin, and not Houston. Culture does matter and California is in general far more permissive of alternative thought than other parts of the country.

2. The weather and geography - Undeniable beauty. My wife is a very accomplished marathon runner and running year round with access to great trails and hills is a huge draw. I like to surf. A McMansion in McKinney might give us better $/sqft, but at what cost to our lifestyle of things we really like to do in life.

3. Access to wealth - This matter a lot more to starting and growing a business than dumb tax regimes. Complaining endlessly about the $800 / year LLC fees is right, but that has to be balanced against how easy it has been to raise money here for my business.

The bad:
1. Bad governance:

• Taxes are out of control. Part of this is progressives that never learn you can't tax your way out of trouble, part of this is bad public policy from voters (Prop 13). My property taxes in CA are probably lower than yours in TX and I live in million home. They won't go up more than 2% per year by law. That necessarily means that taxes have to come from income, placing an undue burden on the asset-less class that makes up a larger and larger portion of our state.
• Soft on crime. I supported initiatives that looked good in pilot programs. Drug decriminalization. Bail reform. Housing for homeless. It's clear now that these don't work at scale and the unintended consequences are much more severe than the benefits. The state has been far too slow to pivot

2. How point 2 above contribute to problems:

• Geography - San Francisco is a highly developed city on a peninsula with almost no empty lots and LA has the same issue with the ocean. Transposing a DFW or Houston paradigm on these cities won't work. We don't have the same room to grow housing supply without going vertical or infill. CA has passed great laws for ADUs and making all SFH zoning anywhere in the state eligible for building up to 4 units. That increases supply, thats great, but we're still severly limited in housing supply.
  
  People often marvel that housing and rent in LA and SF are going up when everyone seems to be leaving. That's because there's still not nearly enough supply. Families live in cramped multi-generation housing.
  
  
• Weather - Irrespective of other unintended consequences and soft on crime, all else equal I'd rather be a homeless heroin addict in LA than Dallas. The weather here will attract vagrants and ne'er-do-wells at a higher rate than other places.

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You hit on a key point here: from the Bay Area down to San Diego there is so little available space because there are too many people. I have driven and visited there for decades and it just gets worse and worse. I can still walk from my Salt Lake home about half a mile and I am in some beautiful canyon areas, still undeveloped with streams and animals, but housing development is encroaching on the canyon rim and it won't be long until we have California's problems.

Quote:

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Jerry Brown was the beginning of the end.

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He dated Linda and he could not make it official?

Was stationed at Camp Pendleton back in 2003-2004. Just amazing weather and beauty. Just got back from San Diego last week. As we were heading back to a frozen DFW we were leaving 72 and sunny with birds chirping. Such a waste.

UTExan said:

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there is so little available space because there are too many people.

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It will never happen, but if the US was smart, we would begin clamping down on immigration and severely limit population growth.

The list of activities, events and economic/lifestyle benefits that have been ruined by overcrowding -- in a single lifetime -- is a long one, and growing every day.

Tough times create strong men, strong men create easy times. Easy times create weak men, weak men create tough times

Exhibit A - California

The list is long, and many points have been hit.

But ultimately it falls (IMO) to a simple point - the state is dominated by large urban population centers that dominate politics and when you have these types of situations, the slide downhill is inevitable. It isn't just CA that has this issue, but the are the most prominent of the states that do.

Funky Winkerbean said:

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Quote:

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California is in general far more permissive of alternative thought than other parts of the country.

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That's funny. How permissive are thoughts on limited government? How about the campaign to cancel anyone who thinks differently? Your premise is completely wrong. It should say California is permissive of the correct thought.

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You're honing in on a specific and serious issue but ignoring my point. If you're gay, a punk rocker with green hair, hippy free spirit, atheist, etc. California is in general going to be more your speed than Texas.

As for cancel culture and wokism, you're correct it's a major problem.

California is the only state I can remember that voted for a constitutional amendment outlawing gay marriage. Maybe others have but CA I remember it passing.