zephyr88 said:

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They stopped legacy admissions in the 80's.

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It was still going on via a few back doors, including the Corps, when I was a student in the mid-90s but I think that was finally taken out by 2000.

FWIW, I also have a copy of my A&M application from 93 and it asks for a listing of all relatives who went to A&M...

ETA, the OP is confusing A&M with Harvard, where this has been an issue the past few years. Luckily Harvard is private and they can do whatever they want.

Keegan99 said:

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rgleml said:

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I just read that some of the regents do not want to give priority for legacy applicants because too many of them are white. This seems like reverse discrimination to me.

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Dr. Gates eliminated legacy points on applications at the same time he eliminated race points on applications.

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Keegan, hate to disagree, but there weren't "race points" in the application process. Gates just said race would not be taken into account, and people believed him. Then came the subjective essays.

Personal brag (I guess). My oldest son was accepted. He wanted to go to the University of Chicago but the murders near the campus have really turned him off. Looks like he's headed to Aggieland. He's a conservative political animal and has a way of swinging liberals to the middle. He'll keep the torch burning.

Yes, specifically the "diversity" essay. Not so hidden way to incorporate race into admission decisions

Congrats to both of you!

Too many gaming the college admission system with excellent grades and exceptional volunteer service record.

Since 2016 and A&M subscribes to this "common good" crap. Here is start to open your eyes to college admissions in 2022.

https://mcc.gse.harvard.edu/reports/turning-the-tide-college-admissions

lol, follow the links in last post

Here is a good one:
https://mcc.gse.harvard.edu/resources-for-colleges/character-assessment-college-admission-guide-overview
potentially powerful ways for college admission offices to integrate and assess student character and other non-cognitive skills and capacities as part of the admission process

No "diversity essay" per se in the current crop of essay questions, but very easy for applicant to mention race in response to A or B and the admissions officer to grade accordingly. Essay prompts for Texas common application in 2022/2023:

Quote:

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Essay A: Tell us your story. What unique opportunities or challenges have you experienced throughout your high school career that have shaped who you are today?

Essay B: Most students have an identity, an interest, or a talent that defines them in an essential way. Tell us about yourself.

Essay C: You've got a ticket in your hand Where will you go? What will you do? What will happen when you get there?

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AgGrad99 said:

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Tanya 93 said:

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If you honestly believe in it being merit based, legacy should not be a factor.

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I dont necessarily disagree.

That said, if there is a pool of similar applicants, why shouldn't the family's connection to the school be used as a deciding factor? That would seem to benefit the school in a myriad of ways.

Companies reward good customers all the time. Alumni have a much closer relationship to a University, than a customer to a business.

I dont think it should be THE deciding factor, but why not 'A' factor?

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Because it should about who they are and not who their parents are.

Similar does not mean the same. No two applicants will ever be exactly the same. There is always a difference in what they offer. Parents being graduates is not dependent on the choices the applicants make to stand out.

My son was top ten percent, he was accepted at Texas A & M and Texas and picked A & M. He will tell you today it was the best decision he has made in life. My daughter was just outside of top ten and was not accepted to A & M. She went two semesters to North Texas and was accepted as a transfer student. She roomed with several girls who were accepted out of high school and she was the only one that graduated. I think having to wait made her appreciate it more. She had great grades and and a wonderful college experience.

Mr. AGSPRT04 said:

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No "diversity essay" per se in the current crop of essay questions, but very easy for applicant to mention race in response to A or B and the admissions officer to grade accordingly. Essay prompts for Texas common application in 2022/2023:

Quote:

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Essay A: Tell us your story. What unique opportunities or challenges have you experienced throughout your high school career that have shaped who you are today?

Essay B: Most students have an identity, an interest, or a talent that defines them in an essential way. Tell us about yourself.

Essay C: You've got a ticket in your hand Where will you go? What will you do? What will happen when you get there?

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I tell the students I tutor for college application essays, who are mostly AA and have a church paying for it, to make their essays funny. The biggest sob stories are often the same

They remember essays with personality that make them laugh.

A) I would suggest something about a lack of something or too much of something in the cafeteria. Or how you are not a morning person and school would have been better starting at 11am.

B) Juggling. Speaking Klingon. Naming every capital in the world.

C) Springfield. Quahog. A train from one side of Canada to the other, so you can meet a Lumberjack

Tanya 93 said:

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Mr. AGSPRT04 said:

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No "diversity essay" per se in the current crop of essay questions, but very easy for applicant to mention race in response to A or B and the admissions officer to grade accordingly. Essay prompts for Texas common application in 2022/2023:

Quote:

---

Essay A: Tell us your story. What unique opportunities or challenges have you experienced throughout your high school career that have shaped who you are today?

Essay B: Most students have an identity, an interest, or a talent that defines them in an essential way. Tell us about yourself.

Essay C: You've got a ticket in your hand Where will you go? What will you do? What will happen when you get there?

---

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I tell the students I tutor for college application essays, who are mostly AA and have a church paying for it, to make their essays funny. The biggest sob stories are often the same

They remember essays with personality that make them laugh.

A) I would suggest something about a lack of something or too much of something in the cafeteria. Or how you are not a morning person and school would have been better starting at 11am.

B) Juggling. Speaking Klingon. Naming every capital in the world.

C) Springfield. Quahog. A train from one side of Canada to the other, so you can meet a Lumberjack

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What is that? Or who is that? TIA.

The city in The Family Guy.

Springfield is about The Simpsons.

Haven't seen enough South Park in the last decade to suggest that.

Oh. Have never watched that show. Can one assume admissions people have?

aggiehawg said:

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Oh. Have never watched that show. Can one assume admissions people have?

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The ones I know have

But my stuff is former admissions people at A&M and current ones at Mizzou, Central Methodist, and Columbia College.

Tanya 93 said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Oh. Have never watched that show. Can one assume admissions people have?

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The ones I know have

But my stuff is former admissions people at A&M and current ones at Mizzou, Central Methodist, and Columbia College.

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Thank you for taking the time to respond. World moves fast for us "olds." LOL.

58-7 said:

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I feel pretty strongly legacy had something to do with my son being accepted to aTm 6 years ago. He was only in top 17% of his class and not involved in much during high school, decent SAT but not special. You can bet he hammered Essay 3 trying to tie in legacy of dad, uncle, twin sister. I was shocked he received an acceptance letter. I have season FB tix but not a BMA donor.

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I'm positive its why I got in. I was 6 years post high school and lets just say my performance left something to be desired. I had been doing field tech work on industrial pumps and the like and I was accepted in to a relevant program. It actually shocked me. Now I'm the only one in my family in my generation to be a Fightin Texas Aggie.

aggiehawg said:

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Tanya 93 said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Oh. Have never watched that show. Can one assume admissions people have?

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The ones I know have

But my stuff is former admissions people at A&M and current ones at Mizzou, Central Methodist, and Columbia College.

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Thank you for taking the time to respond. World moves fast for us "olds." LOL.

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No problem.
This is what I love doing. Teaching kids to write well. And not be afraid to be funny.


And I am not that much younger. I just have more childish interests than you

Mr. AGSPRT04 said:

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I covered the issue in The Batt back in 2003-ish when Gates got rid of legacy points in the admissions process. If memory serves, it was done to appease Garnet Coleman and other members of the permanently-aggrieved class in the Texas Legislature.

What was discovered when the policy went into effect was that not only did it adversely change the outcome for around 50-60 white students, it actually reduced the number of minority students admitted by 2 or 3 persons. Turns out they could benefit from the legacy boost as much or more than their white counterparts.

At the time, I advocated for the end of legacy admissions on merit grounds. But in retrospect, I think A&M is a better place for its multigenerational family legacies, both culturally and financially. If we are going to count subjective performance on essay prompts such as, "Describe how you will contribute to the diversity of A&M" in admitting students, then a few points for legacy applicants is more than fair.

ETA- looking back at the numbers, it looks like legacy points were a deciding factor for 300 whites and 30 minorities. The policy still benefitted minorities, but that didn't fit the narrative.

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You wrote for the Batt?!?!

How do I block a user again?

rgleml said:

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I just read that some of the regents do not want to give priority for legacy applicants because too many of them are white. This seems like reverse discrimination to me.

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It is discrimination. Plain and simple.

I was not your typical Batt editorial fare, but choose as you may.

ironic cause most two percenters were whites when i was there

A&M got rid of legacy admissions 35 years ago

Tanya 93 said:

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AgGrad99 said:

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Tanya 93 said:

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If you honestly believe in it being merit based, legacy should not be a factor.

---

I dont necessarily disagree.

That said, if there is a pool of similar applicants, why shouldn't the family's connection to the school be used as a deciding factor? That would seem to benefit the school in a myriad of ways.

Companies reward good customers all the time. Alumni have a much closer relationship to a University, than a customer to a business.

I dont think it should be THE deciding factor, but why not 'A' factor?

---

Because it should about who they are and not who their parents are.

Similar does not mean the same. No two applicants will ever be exactly the same. There is always a difference in what they offer. Parents being graduates is not dependent on the choices the applicants make to stand out.

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In principle, I completely agree.

But in reality, with 100k applications a year, they will absolutely split hairs between applicants. Why shouldn't this be a hair?

Mas89 said:

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Now do illegal immigrants without a SS number or drivers license.

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Someone in the know please answer this. How many per year is Tx A&M admitting? Or will they admit it?

Infection_Ag11 said:

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A&M got rid of legacy admissions 35 years ago

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Wheewh! Just made it, then.

I would feel pretty crappy about myself if I thought I only got accepted because of my family lineage.

Fortunately those in charge of the decision were impressed with my story. Champion rower and aspiring lawyer. Humble beginnings as an orphaned "townie" who grew up on the "wrong side of the tracks".

Make no bones about it, I earned my place in the Skulls; unlike that ******* Caleb Mandrake and his ***** Father.

Ol_Ag_02 said:

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I would feel pretty crappy about myself if I thought I only got accepted because of my family lineage.

Fortunately those in charge of the decision were impressed with my story. Champion rower and aspiring lawyer. Humble beginnings as an orphaned "townie" who grew up on the "wrong side of the tracks".

Make no bones about it, I earned my place in the Skulls; unlike that ******* Caleb Mandrake and his ***** Father.

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Wut?

Ol_Ag_02 said:

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I would feel pretty crappy about myself if I thought I only got accepted because of my family lineage.

Fortunately those in charge of the decision were impressed with my story. Champion rower and aspiring lawyer. Humble beginnings as an orphaned "townie" who grew up on the "wrong side of the tracks".

Make no bones about it, I earned my place in the Skulls; unlike that ******* Caleb Mandrake and his ***** Father.

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That damn Caleb Mandrake, always runnin his mouth.

Chips2003 said:

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Mr. AGSPRT04 said:

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I covered the issue in The Batt back in 2003-ish when Gates got rid of legacy points in the admissions process. If memory serves, it was done to appease Garnet Coleman and other members of the permanently-aggrieved class in the Texas Legislature.

What was discovered when the policy went into effect was that not only did it adversely change the outcome for around 50-60 white students, it actually reduced the number of minority students admitted by 2 or 3 persons. Turns out they could benefit from the legacy boost as much or more than their white counterparts.

At the time, I advocated for the end of legacy admissions on merit grounds. But in retrospect, I think A&M is a better place for its multigenerational family legacies, both culturally and financially. If we are going to count subjective performance on essay prompts such as, "Describe how you will contribute to the diversity of A&M" in admitting students, then a few points for legacy applicants is more than fair.

ETA- looking back at the numbers, it looks like legacy points were a deciding factor for 300 whites and 30 minorities. The policy still benefitted minorities, but that didn't fit the narrative.

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You wrote for the Batt?!?!

How do I block a user again?

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Has the batt always been commie agitprop?

Essays should be removed from the admissions process.

aTmAg said:

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Essays should be removed from the admissions process.

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AGREE. It's ridiculous that anyone's admission should boil down to a few paragraphs (which in some cases may be presented as truth while being entirely untrue) and a clear end-around objective metrics

Boo Weekley said:

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58-7 said:

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I feel pretty strongly legacy had something to do with my son being accepted to aTm 6 years ago. He was only in top 17% of his class and not involved in much during high school, decent SAT but not special. You can bet he hammered Essay 3 trying to tie in legacy of dad, uncle, twin sister. I was shocked he received an acceptance letter. I have season FB tix but not a BMA donor.

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I love merit-based acceptance in general, but in terms of culture and preserving what makes us unique, I'd much rather take a legacy kid of any race who was raised to love A&M than some book worm from China who doesn't give two sh*ts about this country, much less our University.

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This. As with many things these days, I've done an about face on this topic. I was for eliminating legacies back in the day because it just didn't seem fair to me that because some person's dad or mom went that they would get a leg up on someone else that had truly earned it with hard work.

However, these days I would be all in favor of bringing it back because of the absurdity of overall college entrance requirements. I'm not sure what A&M is specifically doing on that front outside of top 10 rules, but colleges all over the country are removing entrance requirements in order to boost their non-white enrollment. In the event they don't get rid of entrance requirements they simply admit non-whites over whites in greater numbers due to DEI.

If it takes legacy boosts to get my kid in college as some form of equitable offset against practices designed to keep me out because I'm white then I'm all for A&M bringing this back.

Anyone know how much easier or difficult it is to transfer from Tarleton or Blinn versus directly being accepted from high school?

annie88 said:

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BenFiasco14 said:

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A&M has been practicing reverse discrimination against white people for well over two decades now. Nothing new.

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When I was editor of Texas Aggie Magazine, I wrote an article on admissions. Went over and interviewed several people and put all my stats and everything together. This is probably about late 2006, early 2007.

Even with that time it was interesting to see some of the things they were looking at rather than grades and such. And diversity was definitely a big push even then and I know it's gotten even more since then.

So you're not wrong and what you're saying.

And now looking around the country and how many universities are dropping SAT or ACT scores or even rankings in the school it's a very strange process.

Now I'm sure A&M has changed their admissions processes several times since then but it was an eye-opener. It's definitely nothing like it was back when I came to school.

But I do think people would be staggered to know that they get like 50,000 applications and can only accept 12 to 15,000 applications a year now too. Actually it's probably even more now. So it's a lot more people wanting to come as well.

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https://accountability.tamu.edu/All-Metrics/Mixed-Metrics/Applied,-Admitted,-Enrolled

According to A&M its numbers break down as follows for the last few years:

2017 - 59,184 applied, 35,171 were admitted (59.4% acceptance rate), and 17,682 enrolled (50.3% of those accepted);
2018 - 56,235 applied, 33,527 were admitted (59.6% acceptance rate), and 17,152 enrolled (51.2% of those accepted);
2019 - 62,061 applied, 34,233 were admitted (55.2% acceptance rate), and 16,956 enrolled (49.5% of those accepted);
2020 - 62,871 applied, 36,872 were admitted (58.6% acceptance rate), and 17,721 enrolled (48.1% of those accepted); and
2021 - 63,516 applied, 36,608 were admitted (57.6% acceptance rate), and 18,634 enrolled (50.9% of those accepted).

You can play with the numbers by ethnicity, gender, Top 10% (the acceptance rate for non Top 10% surprisingly fluctuates between 40-50% for the years in question), and for purposes of this thread - first generation.

Just eyeballing the numbers it looks like more than half of those admitted each year are not first generation Aggies, and their acceptance rate from the school is higher (again eyeballing - I'd say 66%) than the general admission rate.

Adding legacy points to a 66% acceptance rate for legacies might be gilding the lily, so to speak.