***** OFFICIAL Russia v. Ukraine *****

1,106,871 Views | 10330 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by TRM
Rossticus
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This explains so much…

medwriter
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Rossticus said:

This explains so much…




That is absolutely horrendous. That poor, poor man. Prayers go out to him. To die, freezing in your own feces? Awful.
PJYoung
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AG
aggiehawg
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AG
Russia is a worldwide target of trolling now.

reddit
Rossticus
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aggiehawg said:

Russia is a worldwide target of trolling now.

reddit


That is fantastic.
FriscoKid
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AG


Wonder who Russia stole this from?
FriscoKid
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AG


Check out this Ivan supporter.
Rossticus
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Color me shocked that possessing a supposed piece of the object used to torture Jesus to death failed to convince him to protect you in a heinous war reminiscent of Roman imperialism. Even for Jesus that probably "crossed" the line.

aggiehawg
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AG
Quote:

On a warm October day in 2019, the eminent Russia studies professor Stephen F. Cohen and I sat down in Manhattan for what would be our last in-person interview (Cohen passed away in September 2020 at the age of 81).

The House was gearing up to impeach Donald Trump for freezing weapons shipments to Ukraine while pressuring its government to investigate Joe Biden and his son Hunter. The Beltway media was consumed with frenzy of a presidency in peril. But Professor Cohen, one of the leading Russia scholars in the United States, was concerned with what the impeachment spectacle in Washington meant for the long-running war between the US-backed Ukrainian government and Russian-backed rebels in the Donbas.

At that point, Ukraine's Volodymyr Zelensky was just months into an upstart presidency that he had won on a pledge to end the Donbas conflict. Instead of supporting the Ukrainian leader's peace mandate, Democrats in Congress were impeaching Trump for briefly impeding the flow of weapons that fueled the fight. As his Democratic allies now like to forget, President Obama refused to send these same weapons out of fear of prolonging the war and arming Nazis. By abandoning Obama's policy, the Democrats, Cohen warned, threaten to sabotage peace and strengthen Ukraine's far-right.

"Zelensky ran as a peace candidate," Cohen explained. "He won an enormous mandate to make peace. So, that means he has to negotiate with Vladimir Putin." But there was a major obstacle. Ukrainian fascists "have said that they will remove and kill Zelensky if he continues along this line of negotiating with Putin… His life is being threatened literally by a quasi-fascist movement in Ukraine."
Read the rest
ATX_AG_08
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AG
Some will get this.

https://www.facebook.com/865210076/posts/10166568915950077/?d=n
Rossticus
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I've seen that take and I feel that it omits consideration of the perspective we've gained since the beginning of the year as well as overemphasizes the US and underemphasizes the dynamic between Ukraine and Russia. The facts of historical occurrence can't be debated but the conclusion arrived at is, in my opinion, errant.

What do you think Hawg?
aggiehawg
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AG
My thoughts are that Zelensky has been walking a very fine line, purely for survival. As the winds have shifted, he has shifted along with them.

And I have little doubt that the US State Department and CIA were involved in the 2014 "revolution" that caused Yanukovych to be deposed.

The thing is though, he has turned out to be an effective wartime leader, whatever his faults were before.
Rossticus
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I agree with those statements.
ATX_AG_08
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AG
Ulysses90
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AG
aggiehawg said:

My thoughts are that Zelensky has been walking a very fine line, purely for survival. As the winds have shifted, he has shifted along with them.

And I have little doubt that the US State Department and CIA were involved in the 2014 "revolution" that caused Yanukovych to be deposed.

The thing is though, he has turned out to be an effective wartime leader, whatever his faults were before.


And as for the historical precedents for actors turned statesmen, Zelensky didn't even get to fight communism and balance a budget in California first.
FriscoKid
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AG


This guy is right. We need to stop the war to save the innocent trees that are dying.
Rossticus
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Rossticus
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/14/german-chancellor-stalling-heavy-weaponry-ukraine-coalition-olaf-scholz-russia-offensive
redline248
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AG
Rossticus said:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/14/german-chancellor-stalling-heavy-weaponry-ukraine-coalition-olaf-scholz-russia-offensive
impeach him, right?
TxAgswin
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AG
That Aaron Mate piece sheds an incredible amount of light on how much hubris and insanity is at play here and how it's completely absurd.

This statement jumped out at me:

"...the Americans, and the Ukrainian right, both do not want Zelensky cutting a deal with the Russians that makes it look like the Russians won."

I don't think this thing ever ends unless Russia thinks it's won. A clever tactic for dealing with bullies is to make them think they've won. But in this case, there are three bullies with opposing motives, so you can't appease them all.

If stopping the war was priority one, Zelensy could theoretically negotiate a peace agreement by making it look like Putin won.

Hypothetical: Sign a neutrality deal agreeing not to join NATO and grant autonomy (or hell, allow Russian annexation) of those Eastern Russia-speaking ethnic regions, perhaps revisiting the 1997 Friendship Treaty creating a relationship more similar to the Russian-Finnish relationship where being a non-Nato country is enough cold water.

If those negotiations stop the war, Zelensky will be even more popular in Kiev (if that's even possible) and the Ukrainian far-Right won't have any political firepower and can basically go **** themselves. The article has suggested they would assassinate him if he gives an inch in the east, and I'm sure he's not cool with that, but he obviously doesn't scare easily. Additionally, it would also be absurdly stupid for them to make a martyr out of him.

I think Mate frames the US as much more sinister than what we actually are. Of course, we prefer that Ukrainians fight Russians and we provide weapons rather than going to war ourselves. That's just common sense and we are being reactionary, not aggressive. The bully started the fight. We just want it over.

Guys like Mate and Chomsky (Chomsky is cited in the article) go out of their way to find flaws in any U.S. policymaking.
"A house divided cannot stand"

Abraham Lincoln
Rossticus
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Grandmas do grandma things.



The Debt
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Propagandists using images from a war they want you to forget ever happened

IslanderAg04
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Not the only guy saying volunteers are used as fodder.
ATX_AG_08
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AG
This was posted weeks ago. Supposedly this guy got turned away from fighting and became disgruntled. Didn't pass a prequalification or mental test or something. And if I remember correctly that was stated from another foreign fighter who was close to the situation.
TRM
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AG
He didn't get turned away from fighting. He didn't want to fight, but he wanted to do rescue work like help women and children which is the job of an NGO-type organization.
Rossticus
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Nobody wants anyone to forget the war that Russia started in Donbas. That's what led to all this.
Rossticus
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And plenty of other volunteers chronicling their activities who drown out and disprove this twit.
Who?mikejones!
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The Debt said:

Propagandists using images from a war they want you to forget ever happened




Wait....you're telling me this is the second Russian invasion of Ukraine in the last decade and that one too led to many civilian casualties???????????


No way!
lb3
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AG
TxAgswin said:

If stopping the war was priority one, Zelensy could theoretically negotiate a peace agreement by making it look like Putin won.

Hypothetical: Sign a neutrality deal agreeing not to join NATO and grant autonomy (or hell, allow Russian annexation) of those Eastern Russia-speaking ethnic regions, perhaps revisiting the 1997 Friendship Treaty creating a relationship more similar to the Russian-Finnish relationship where being a non-Nato country is enough cold water.

If those negotiations stop the war, Zelensky will be even more popular in Kiev (if that's even possible) and the Ukrainian far-Right won't have any political firepower and can basically go **** themselves. The article has suggested they would assassinate him if he gives an inch in the east, and I'm sure he's not cool with that, but he obviously doesn't scare easily. Additionally, it would also be absurdly stupid for them to make a martyr out of him.
This boat sailed weeks ago. If Zelenskiy was going to cede their territory for peace the time to do so was last December or as a friendship offering during the Olympics.

At this time, too much blood has been spilt, too many women raped, and too many cities destroyed for Ukranians to accept a return to the effective status quo from February. That sort of settlement may be the outcome that preserves the most lives, material, and Ukraine's national sovereignty in the long run but a one sided settlement at this time is suicide for any Ukranian leader and could start a Ukranian civil war.
Rossticus
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ATX_AG_08
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AG
aggiehawg
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AG
These guys are singing a new tune?

ATX_AG_08
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AG
Funny how that works after somebody actually stands up to a bully and punches them in the mouth.
aggiehawg
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AG
If you have been watching this roundtable before now, these panelists were closer to advocating genocide against all Ukrainians just a few days ago. Calling them all satanists conducting pagan blood sacrifices.

Now, the experience in Afghanistan is coming up? And the Ukrainians being touted as superior to Afghans? On Russian (Putin) approved state TV?
Rossticus
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