***** OFFICIAL Russia v. Ukraine *****

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Eliminatus
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In reply to LostInLA07 • 6:02p, 3/31/22
AG
LostInLA07 said:
Rossticus said:
This would be where we find out if we have the balls to follow through on countries who help Russia bypass sanctions. If we don't then China gets the green light to join the team.



If India does that we should immediately revoke all work and student visas. The number of pissed off Indians heading back to India would make quite the impact on their government.


India made a decision to rope themselves to Russia in exactly the wrong time. India is desperately trying to modernize many sectors of their nation, specifically defense. They are prepping for China but had a HUGE late start. They shopped all over but it came down to Russian cost. They couldn't afford western stuff en masse to outfit their entire military in time. So they went with Russian. And that is with their rapidly increasing defense budget.

I am sure there is a lot more to it but the military one is a big factor for sure. India has a much more pressing China issue than they do an optics one working with Russia it would appear....
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FriscoKid
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In reply to TRM • 6:15p, 3/31/22
AG
No, give them the Polish migs.
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aggiehawg
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6:21p, 3/31/22
AG
The West can't cancel China like the attempt to do the same to Russia.

Quote:
The Great Reset crew that meets in Davos and thinks they are qualified to run every aspect of your life will be on one side. The nationalistic, ethnocentric, authoritarian regimes and those dependent on them will be on the other. It is not clear which side represents the ideas of traditional liberal democracies, since these two sides are just different types of oligarchies.
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The current conflict in Ukraine is instructive about how this new world may evolve. America and the West are using cancel culture as a bizarre form of foreign policy. In addition to government sanctions, corporations have voluntarily boycotted Russia in response to public pressure. Our political and cultural leaders are using the language of cancel culture, asserting that support for Ukraine is required to be on the right side of history.
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Russia actually developed a plan to seize companies abandoned during the corporate exodus. The secret sauce on a Big Mac would no longer be a secret.
I thought it was Jack-in-the-Box that had "secret sauce"?

Anyway, back to the story.

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"China's close partnership with Russiawhich emerged shortly before Russia's Ukraine invasionis now putting China in a precarious position. Americans believe, quite simply, that if the international community is able to obtain proof that the CCP is supporting Russia's war in Ukraine, China should face the same economic consequences being imposed on Russia," said Mark Meckler, President of Convention of States Action. "Washington, DC has put all of the focus on Russia and has conveniently ignored or minimized the more menacing threat lurking in the background. While the so-called 'experts' may not understand this, voters do, and they expect action."
Quote:
Do Americans really want U.S. corporations to cease all business in China as they have in Russia? American corporations produce some of their most advanced technological products in China. Do you want China to develop a plan to seize those assets? America will lose its advantage on things far more critical than some souped-up Thousand Island dressing.

Is your mom on blood pressure medication? Could anyone you love need antibiotics this year? It's a safe bet that you rely on your smartphone and any number of computer chips to function daily, not to mention all of the things you use that require batteries. All of those items are made somewhere else, primarily in China.

The U.S. does not have the infrastructure or natural resources to ramp up manufacturing production any time soon. The emperor could truly have no clothes, as America has almost no textile and apparel manufacturing. In some cases, we let go of industries so long ago that we no longer have the knowledge to fire up enough manufacturing plants domestically.
Uhmm? Think that is a bit over the top. We have the knowledge. It's not like we will all be wearing animal skins. We still have cotton and cotton gins here. Loom tech is still the same. Hell, we can probably 3-D print clothes at this point. (Disclaimer: Know very little about 3-D printer stuff.)

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America also let its own hemisphere go. Instead of ensuring that vibrant, sufficiently educated democracies existed in Central and South America, we went adventuring in the Middle East with cultures that hate us. Arrogance following World War II led us to believe that we could build democracies anywhere. In spectacular fashion, we proved that is not possible. Meanwhile, the beachhead established by the Soviet Union in Cuba has expanded with Russian and Chinese influence throughout our southern neighbors. The Mexican cartels that control our southern border and Chinese Communist Party members reportedly intermarry.
WOW! A little too broad of brush, in my view but kernels there.

Link
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TRM
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In reply to FriscoKid • 6:25p, 3/31/22
AG
They don't want them.

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aggiehawg
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In reply to TRM • 6:33p, 3/31/22
AG
TRM said:
They don't want them.

Hmm. Change of opinion? Is something in the works? Other nations that have F-15s and F-16s may supply those covertly prodded by the U.S.?
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Eliminatus
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6:35p, 3/31/22
AG
Modern day Uke Cossack.
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Not a Bot
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In reply to aggiehawg • 6:39p, 3/31/22
AG
That's not going to happen.

It's not just a matter of changing planes. We are talking about completely different systems of flight, radars, weapons controls, everything. It isn't just a matter of a few weeks of training.
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aggiehawg
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In reply to Eliminatus • 6:39p, 3/31/22
AG


The hats caused the uneven hair loss?
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aggiehawg
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In reply to Not a Bot • 6:42p, 3/31/22
AG
Captain Positivity said:
That's not going to happen.

It's not just a matter of changing planes. We are talking about completely different systems of flight, radars, weapons controls, everything. It isn't just a matter of a few weeks of training.
People who had never gone into space before learned how on simulators.

That is why I asked if anyone knew where Uke pilots were being trained the last 8 years.
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Not a Bot
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7:12p, 3/31/22
AG
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Rossticus
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7:18p, 3/31/22
Nifty…

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GAC06
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In reply to aggiehawg • 7:20p, 3/31/22
AG
aggiehawg said:
Captain Positivity said:
That's not going to happen.

It's not just a matter of changing planes. We are talking about completely different systems of flight, radars, weapons controls, everything. It isn't just a matter of a few weeks of training.
People who had never gone into space before learned how on simulators.

That is why I asked if anyone knew where Uke pilots were being trained the last 8 years.


If Ukrainians were going to learn to fly and fight with F-16's and F-15's they'd need to go to the country that would teach them (that's really only us who could do it) and it would take months of extensive training. Simulators would be a big part but flying the planes are the easy part. They'd need to learn the tactics, the weapons envelopes, the radars, the hands on throttle and stick controls, and everything else. Plus they'd need maintainers who can service, repair, load ordnance, and everything else.

Plus they'd still be in a very high threat contested environment because Russian air defense is on three borders and inside their country
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The Debt
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In reply to aggiehawg • 7:21p, 3/31/22
aggiehawg said:
TRM said:
They don't want them.

Hmm. Change of opinion? Is something in the works? Other nations that have F-15s and F-16s may supply those covertly prodded by the U.S.?

2-3 more weeks? Russia was suppose to run out of fuel and food 27 days ago
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Rossticus
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In reply to The Debt • 7:24p, 3/31/22
Enough Russians died that they were able to stretch their supplies considerably.
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GAC06
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In reply to The Debt • 7:27p, 3/31/22
AG
They were "supposed" to seize Kiev in days. Now they're retreating. So yeah the fuel and food may have been a thing.
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Ag In Ok
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8:12p, 3/31/22
AG
Oil just dropped below $100
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Hydrocele_aggie
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8:18p, 3/31/22
Why is Russia trolling they just need end this thing
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GAC06
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In reply to Hydrocele_aggie • 8:23p, 3/31/22
AG
It will take a while to drag their busted army back home. Is that what you meant?
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Rossticus
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In reply to Hydrocele_aggie • 8:29p, 3/31/22
Hydrocele_aggie said:
Why is Russia trolling they just need end this thing


That's why they're giving up on taking Kyiv. They can't. They're managing expectations and HOPING that they can take a smaller chunk if they redeploy and focus on the east.
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The Debt
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In reply to GAC06 • 8:35p, 3/31/22
GAC06 said:
They were "supposed" to seize Kiev in days. Now they're retreating. So yeah the fuel and food may have been a thing.

This is American disinformation. Seizing Kiev was not part of the maneuver warfare that Russia is engaged in. If you seize cities, you sideline those forces to garrison a city. It's a terrible strategy.

The first order of importance is defeating or forcing surrender of Uke military. What's spectacular about this is the Uke force is 260k, the Russians brought 200k. Usually you need a 3:1 to overwhelm, yet Russia didnt even bring 1:1. Yet Russia is defeating the superior force through thier execution of maneuver warfare.

Kiev has what 3mil people? The amount of troops to garrison a city that large would be roughly 400k. So if you need that many and you only brought 200k across ALL of Ukraine, explain how capturing Kiev was even on Russias tactical goals?

Kiev was a feint. It forces Uke to divert resources to defense of the capital, meaning they arent in the Donbass fighting. If you can send 10k russians to tease kiev and Zelensky allocates 50k to kiev, the 260k/200k margin disappears.
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Rossticus
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In reply to The Debt • 8:50p, 3/31/22
Good lord. I'll make it simple for you. With pictures. It's a thread you would benefit from.

And I'll remind you that every non-Russian military tactician who has spoken about this has stated that it's not a feint and that if it was intended that way then it's the most inept and counterproductive attempt at one in history. Here you go sparkles. Try and learn something.



https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1508973983307284492.html


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The Debt
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9:00p, 3/31/22
Again, Russia didnt bring enough to seize cities. Now you are highfiving that they didnt take the cities, while claiming strategic victory for a something never desired.

Why would Russia enter these cities? ANSWER THAT QUESTION. What tactical advantage does that provide? Its nothing but a PITA, just ask the American GI in Tikrit.
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TheCougarHunter
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In reply to The Debt • 9:03p, 3/31/22
AG
The Debt said:
Again, Russia didnt bring enough to seize cities. Now you are highfiving that they didnt take the cities, while claiming strategic victory for a something never desired.

Why would Russia enter these cities? ANSWER THAT QUESTION. What tactical advantage does that provide? Its nothing but a PITA, just ask the American GI in Tikrit.


Found Ivan

The motherland thanks you for your service to the great patriotic victory comrade.
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clw04
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In reply to The Debt • 9:05p, 3/31/22
AG
The Debt said:
GAC06 said:
They were "supposed" to seize Kiev in days. Now they're retreating. So yeah the fuel and food may have been a thing.

This is American disinformation. Seizing Kiev was not part of the maneuver warfare that Russia is engaged in. If you seize cities, you sideline those forces to garrison a city. It's a terrible strategy.

The first order of importance is defeating or forcing surrender of Uke military. What's spectacular about this is the Uke force is 260k, the Russians brought 200k. Usually you need a 3:1 to overwhelm, yet Russia didnt even bring 1:1. Yet Russia is defeating the superior force through thier execution of maneuver warfare.

Kiev has what 3mil people? The amount of troops to garrison a city that large would be roughly 400k. So if you need that many and you only brought 200k across ALL of Ukraine, explain how capturing Kiev was even on Russias tactical goals?

Kiev was a feint. It forces Uke to divert resources to defense of the capital, meaning they arent in the Donbass fighting. If you can send 10k russians to tease kiev and Zelensky allocates 50k to kiev, the 260k/200k margin disappears.
Kyiv was not a feint. It was the main thrust for what Russia expected to be a two day war. The goal of the activity was to overthrown the Ukrainian government by force (take the city or force exile of the government with the threat of force). They would not have targeted securing the three airfields around Kyiv as their primary focus the first several days of the war if it was a feint. Kharkiv was not a feint, and Cherniv was not a feint. They were soundly beaten in all three places and had a horrible strategy. Only people that would declare it a feint would be those trying to hide how miserable of a failure it was.
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The Debt
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9:06p, 3/31/22
So you continue to avoid answering the simple question. Got it
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BreNayPop
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9:10p, 3/31/22
AG
Sure- send in your special forces and paratroopers in a feint. Maybe the kremlin just wanted those guys to die. I'm sure the 40 mile long trail of trucks/tanks headed to Kiev was just part of the feint too. Bwahahahah. The Debt must be smoking some good kremlin kush to believe the BS he just posted.
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BreNayPop
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9:12p, 3/31/22
AG
Based on Russian troop interviews, they really believed they were coming to relieve oppressed people and underestimated what it would take. That's why they didn't bring as many troops.
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mike0305
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9:12p, 3/31/22
Just ignore. Just like real life, it's better without debt.
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mickeyrig06sq3
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In reply to The Debt • 9:13p, 3/31/22
AG
The Debt said:
GAC06 said:
They were "supposed" to seize Kiev in days. Now they're retreating. So yeah the fuel and food may have been a thing.

This is American disinformation. Seizing Kiev was not part of the maneuver warfare that Russia is engaged in. If you seize cities, you sideline those forces to garrison a city. It's a terrible strategy.

The first order of importance is defeating or forcing surrender of Uke military. What's spectacular about this is the Uke force is 260k, the Russians brought 200k. Usually you need a 3:1 to overwhelm, yet Russia didnt even bring 1:1. Yet Russia is defeating the superior force through thier execution of maneuver warfare.

Kiev has what 3mil people? The amount of troops to garrison a city that large would be roughly 400k. So if you need that many and you only brought 200k across ALL of Ukraine, explain how capturing Kiev was even on Russias tactical goals?

Kiev was a feint. It forces Uke to divert resources to defense of the capital, meaning they arent in the Donbass fighting. If you can send 10k russians to tease kiev and Zelensky allocates 50k to kiev, the 260k/200k margin disappears.

Iraq 2003(invasion, not insurgency). We came in with 309k total from the coalition. Iraq had 375k. Baghdad had a population of 5 million+. Putin thought Russia was just as good as the US, so why shouldn't they be able to pull off a quick strike and topple zelensky? Especially if the population is supposed to cheer you and welcome you with flowers?
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The Debt
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In reply to BreNayPop • 9:13p, 3/31/22
BreNayPop said:
Sure- send in your special forces and paratroopers in a feint. Maybe the kremlin just wanted those guys to die. I'm sure the 40 mile long trail of trucks/tanks headed to Kiev was just part of the feint too. Bwahahahah. The Debt must be smoking some good kremlin kush to believe the BS he just posted.

40? It was 4km, then 40km, then 400km. And you believed it was bumper to bumper. Quit eating everything they put in front of you.
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Demosthenes81
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9:15p, 3/31/22
AG
Seven and three are ten, not only now, but forever. There has never been a time when seven and three were not ten, nor will there ever be a time when they are not ten. Therefore, I have said that the truth of number is incorruptible and common to all who think. — St. Augustine
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BreNayPop
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In reply to The Debt • 9:15p, 3/31/22
AG
Truth was in the pictures. It's easy to believe facts. It's hard to believe anybody is dumb enough to be eating what the kremlin is putting out
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Proc92
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In reply to The Debt • 9:16p, 3/31/22
Eat western propaganda or Russian? Impossible to know what is the truth.
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The Debt
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In reply to BreNayPop • 9:19p, 3/31/22
BreNayPop said:
Based on Russian troop interviews, they really believed they were coming to relieve oppressed people and underestimated what it would take. That's why they didn't bring as many troops.
in the donbass yes.

Heres the problem with seeing this war in binary eyes. You keep seeing Ls in the central and Western regions "hardeeharhar farmer got an abandoned tank." But those types of things are happening far from the main Russian forces. They are intentionally probing with "trucks with half a tank of gas." And everyone gets a good laugh, but that's not where the allocation of forces are, thus you have to question why a truck with few support are isolated.

The dullard will say "that's russian incompetency" and leave it at that.
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Rossticus
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In reply to The Debt • 9:22p, 3/31/22
The Debt said:
Again, Russia didnt bring enough to seize cities. Now you are highfiving that they didnt take the cities, while claiming strategic victory for a something never desired.

Why would Russia enter these cities? ANSWER THAT QUESTION. What tactical advantage does that provide? Its nothing but a PITA, just ask the American GI in Tikrit.


Russia didn't bring enough because their battle plan was garbage. Their strategy was garbage. Their intel was garbage. Their logistics were garbage. They expected to execute something, and in a fashion, that they were not remotely capable of.

They've entered and attempted to enter many cities along their multiple axies of advance and have been happy to occupy those that were lightly or undefended. They've suffered heavy losses in and around those that either were defended or that Ukraine has moved to re-take. Many that they held firmly are now contested or have been lost. That's not a feint in any shape form or fashion.

They were overconfident and thought they'd execute a decap strike on Kyiv. This has been confirmed via their actions and losses. They failed.

Next they tried to encircle Kyiv for a siege. This is also confirmed by their heavy commitment of forces, attempted establishment of heavy supply lines, observable movements/attempted movements, and resultant heavy losses.

This is not how any commander would execute a feint. Ever. This is not part of some grand strategy. They. Just. Effed. Up. BIGLY.
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