Yup the Soviets are going to raze that country before giving up
***** OFFICIAL Russia v. Ukraine *****
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Last: 2 yr ago by TRM
There's more to this than we are being told.
TChaney said:German reporter covers a shocking scene of body bags lining the street in Kyiv. #kiev pic.twitter.com/64cxAJdGjI
— Sk Boz, PhD đź’™ (@skbozphd) February 28, 2022
I really shouldn't make a joke right now but I'm tired and I just can't resist.
EDIT: FYI I think this is a protest and not supposed to be actual body bags in the region.
It's a climate change protest in Austria
Oof
Its going to be critical to see if Putin is going to treat an existential threat to his own power in the same way as an existential threat to Russia. My concern is he views Putin/Russia as one and the same, which would drive him to react in an extreme way to prevent his grip on power from being threatened.
I don't see anyway he takes the L here. Any potential off-ramp would have to include some sort of "win" for Putin and I don't really see how that's possible absent a nearly complete military victory. And the Ukrainians are clearly not going to make any territorial concessions. They are fully committed and I think they'd prefer to fight as a resistance force for the next decade vs ending hostilities and becoming a Russian puppet state. Unless Putin commits mass murder and carpet bombs cities, I suspect the Ukrainians are going to hold out longer than Putin can even if the cities "fall" and they are only a civilian resistance force.
I really am afraid the only option for deescalation here is for the Russians to take out Putin themselves. Russia could probably quickly rejoin the international community if they overthrow Putin and blame all of these on him. But that would have to happen soon, otherwise any other leaders around Putin will become complicit - and then we're probably talking about a civil war within a nuclear power.
I don't see anyway he takes the L here. Any potential off-ramp would have to include some sort of "win" for Putin and I don't really see how that's possible absent a nearly complete military victory. And the Ukrainians are clearly not going to make any territorial concessions. They are fully committed and I think they'd prefer to fight as a resistance force for the next decade vs ending hostilities and becoming a Russian puppet state. Unless Putin commits mass murder and carpet bombs cities, I suspect the Ukrainians are going to hold out longer than Putin can even if the cities "fall" and they are only a civilian resistance force.
I really am afraid the only option for deescalation here is for the Russians to take out Putin themselves. Russia could probably quickly rejoin the international community if they overthrow Putin and blame all of these on him. But that would have to happen soon, otherwise any other leaders around Putin will become complicit - and then we're probably talking about a civil war within a nuclear power.
LostInLA07 said:
Its going to be critical to see if Putin is going to treat an existential threat to his own power in the same way as an existential threat to Russia. My concern is he views Putin/Russia as one and the same, which would drive him to react in an extreme way to prevent his grip on power from being threatened.
I don't see anyway he takes the L here. Any potential off-ramp would have to include some sort of "win" for Putin and I don't really see how that's possible absent a nearly complete military victory. And the Ukrainians are clearly not going to make any territorial concessions. They are fully committed and I think they'd prefer to fight as a resistance force for the next decade vs ending hostilities and becoming a Russian puppet state. Unless Putin commits mass murder and carpet bombs cities, I suspect the Ukrainians are going to hold out longer than Putin can even if the cities "fall" and they are only a civilian resistance force.
I really am afraid the only option for deescalation here is for the Russians to take out Putin themselves. Russia could probably quickly rejoin the international community if they overthrow Putin and blame all of these on him. But that would have to happen soon, otherwise any other leaders around Putin will become complicit - and then we're probably talking about a civil war within a nuclear power.
I agree with this…
Putin has lost no matter what happens…even if he takes Ukraine, he has lost…
The Russians have a chance to save face…but it requires that they remove Vlad…
Will they? Won't be easy…but the unrest is growing amongst the oligarchs…
45-70Ag said:NEW: Russia's top military command has ordered heavy strategic bomber flights in effort to block US and European military aid from getting to Ukraine, per a defense ministry statement.
— Jack Detsch (@JackDetsch) February 28, 2022
Russia has tried to "fully destroy" Ukraine's airfields with missile attacks, per Ukraine MoD
I was wondering why it took them so long to try and stop aid from the West....
Quote:
I really am afraid the only option for deescalation here is for the Russians to take out Putin themselves. Russia could probably quickly rejoin the international community if they overthrow Putin and blame all of these on him. But that would have to happen soon, otherwise any other leaders around Putin will become complicit - and then we're probably talking about a civil war within a nuclear power.
This where my mind is at the moment.
I'm imagining that there are relationships between high ranking Russian military and Russian Oligarchs. If this is true the conversations have to be happening.
After thinking this it then made my mind wonder into the poor showing of the Russian military thus far. Was this on purpose in order to create a reason to depose Putin? I know that Russia projects more power and strength than they actually have, but the showing so far seems so pathetic that it's starting to feel purposeful.
Think of a guy like Roman Abramovich... do you think he enjoys having to do this?
https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/27/football/roman-abramovich-chelsea-owner-russia-ukraine-spt-intl/index.html
https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/27/football/roman-abramovich-chelsea-owner-russia-ukraine-spt-intl/index.html
Quote:
Russian billionaire Roman Abramovich has announced he plans to give the "stewardship" of Chelsea Football Club over to trustees of the club's charitable foundation.
Abramovich made the announcement in the days after Russia's invaded Ukraine to protect the club's reputation, a source close to the club told CNN.
"I have always taken decisions with the Club's best interest at heart. I remain committed to these values. That is why I am today giving trustees of Chelsea's charitable Foundation the stewardship and care of Chelsea FC. I believe ... they are in the best position to look after the interests of the Club, players, staff, and fans," Abramovich wrote in a statement released on Saturday.
Although some British lawmakers have called for the Russian national to give up ownership of the club, he will stay on as the owner of the Premier League side, according to the source.
The thing I don't understand with Russia is who is really in charge. In very simplistic terms, does the oligarchy answer to Putin or vice versa?
I Have Spoken said:
Think of a guy like Roman Abramovich... do you think he enjoys having to do this?
https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/27/football/roman-abramovich-chelsea-owner-russia-ukraine-spt-intl/index.htmlQuote:
Russian billionaire Roman Abramovich has announced he plans to give the "stewardship" of Chelsea Football Club over to trustees of the club's charitable foundation.
Abramovich made the announcement in the days after Russia's invaded Ukraine to protect the club's reputation, a source close to the club told CNN.
"I have always taken decisions with the Club's best interest at heart. I remain committed to these values. That is why I am today giving trustees of Chelsea's charitable Foundation the stewardship and care of Chelsea FC. I believe ... they are in the best position to look after the interests of the Club, players, staff, and fans," Abramovich wrote in a statement released on Saturday.
Although some British lawmakers have called for the Russian national to give up ownership of the club, he will stay on as the owner of the Premier League side, according to the source.
The Brits should seize ownership. Normally I am completely against property seizure without due process and the protection of one's rights, but he's a foreign national of a currently hostile country. All bets are off.
Great article on the financial sanctions. I wasn't aware that we were also able to cut Putin off from the $600B he touted as Russia's "war chest" which would allow it to weather any Western sanctions.
"The new banking restrictions are arguably the most serious form of economic retaliation yet approved by the Western powers in response to Russia's attack on Ukraine. They are aimed at preventing Putin from using his sizable financial reserves totaling more than $600 billion to stabilize the Russian economy in the face of other sanctions and economic measures imposed by the West."
SANCTIONS
"The new banking restrictions are arguably the most serious form of economic retaliation yet approved by the Western powers in response to Russia's attack on Ukraine. They are aimed at preventing Putin from using his sizable financial reserves totaling more than $600 billion to stabilize the Russian economy in the face of other sanctions and economic measures imposed by the West."
SANCTIONS
74OA said:
Great article on the financial sanctions. I wasn't aware that we were also able to cut Putin off from the $600B he touted as Russia's "war chest" which would allow it to weather any Western sanctions.
"The new banking restrictions are arguably the most serious form of economic retaliation yet approved by the Western powers in response to Russia's attack on Ukraine. They are aimed at preventing Putin from using his sizable financial reserves totaling more than $600 billion to stabilize the Russian economy in the face of other sanctions and economic measures imposed by the West."
SANCTIONS
Nato is playing this brilliantly so far.
Sounds like the nuclear option as far as finances go.
Led by the USA.RONA Ag said:74OA said:
Great article on the financial sanctions. I wasn't aware that we were also able to cut Putin off from the $600B he touted as Russia's "war chest" which would allow it to weather any Western sanctions.
"The new banking restrictions are arguably the most serious form of economic retaliation yet approved by the Western powers in response to Russia's attack on Ukraine. They are aimed at preventing Putin from using his sizable financial reserves totaling more than $600 billion to stabilize the Russian economy in the face of other sanctions and economic measures imposed by the West."
SANCTIONS
Nato is playing this brilliantly so far.
Biden isn't leading anything. He's at home in his basement.74OA said:Led by the USA.RONA Ag said:74OA said:
Great article on the financial sanctions. I wasn't aware that we were also able to cut Putin off from the $600B he touted as Russia's "war chest" which would allow it to weather any Western sanctions.
"The new banking restrictions are arguably the most serious form of economic retaliation yet approved by the Western powers in response to Russia's attack on Ukraine. They are aimed at preventing Putin from using his sizable financial reserves totaling more than $600 billion to stabilize the Russian economy in the face of other sanctions and economic measures imposed by the West."
SANCTIONS
Nato is playing this brilliantly so far.
and in turn, led by the Biden Administration. Say what you will about Afghanistan and a million other stupid decisions but if we come out of this with a broken Russia and a China seeing what could happen it will be a major win. Lots of chapters left to write though.74OA said:Led by the USA.RONA Ag said:74OA said:
Great article on the financial sanctions. I wasn't aware that we were also able to cut Putin off from the $600B he touted as Russia's "war chest" which would allow it to weather any Western sanctions.
"The new banking restrictions are arguably the most serious form of economic retaliation yet approved by the Western powers in response to Russia's attack on Ukraine. They are aimed at preventing Putin from using his sizable financial reserves totaling more than $600 billion to stabilize the Russian economy in the face of other sanctions and economic measures imposed by the West."
SANCTIONS
Nato is playing this brilliantly so far.
Gov sources: Finnish government unanimous, Finland will give direct military aid to Ukraine. Arms and ammunition. Press conference later today. https://t.co/aMU684UGtP
— Aki Heikkinen (@akihheikkinen) February 28, 2022
you think Biden has handled this well?Robk said:and in turn, led by the Biden Administration. Say what you will about Afghanistan and a million other stupid decisions but if we come out of this with a broken Russia and a China seeing what could happen it will be a major win. Lots of chapters left to write though.74OA said:Led by the USA.RONA Ag said:74OA said:
Great article on the financial sanctions. I wasn't aware that we were also able to cut Putin off from the $600B he touted as Russia's "war chest" which would allow it to weather any Western sanctions.
"The new banking restrictions are arguably the most serious form of economic retaliation yet approved by the Western powers in response to Russia's attack on Ukraine. They are aimed at preventing Putin from using his sizable financial reserves totaling more than $600 billion to stabilize the Russian economy in the face of other sanctions and economic measures imposed by the West."
SANCTIONS
Nato is playing this brilliantly so far.
The Biden Administration is (surprisingly wisely) letting the Europeans lead on this one. Given the general incompetence of the Biden Administration in most affairs, this is actually one of the better moves they have made.
I am sure they have a narrative ready to claim credit should a successful peace emerge.
I am sure they have a narrative ready to claim credit should a successful peace emerge.
MouthBQ98 said:
The Biden Administration is (surprisingly wisely) letting the Europeans lead on this one. Given the general incompetence of the Biden Administration in most affairs, this is actually one of the better moves they have made.
I am sure they have a narrative ready to claim credit should a successful peace emerge.
I think Biden is letting his team of experts handle this. Which is what any president should do honestly. He's doing a good job. And I'm not a fan of Biden.
74OA said:Led by the USA.RONA Ag said:74OA said:
Great article on the financial sanctions. I wasn't aware that we were also able to cut Putin off from the $600B he touted as Russia's "war chest" which would allow it to weather any Western sanctions.
"The new banking restrictions are arguably the most serious form of economic retaliation yet approved by the Western powers in response to Russia's attack on Ukraine. They are aimed at preventing Putin from using his sizable financial reserves totaling more than $600 billion to stabilize the Russian economy in the face of other sanctions and economic measures imposed by the West."
SANCTIONS
Nato is playing this brilliantly so far.
Some of you are so asleep. It's scary. Use your head. Youre being played.
Biden/Obama/Clinton want us engaged there. It's a wet dream. Conflict with Russia in Ukraine your deep state controlled country. So ask, why aren't we?
Who is in control?
For the first time in 100 years we sit out a fight that could expose this administration and several previous ones?
Sure.
Elites play everyone.
All the feel good propaganda sucked you all in.
Quote:
Quote:
In mid-morning in Moscow, the Russian central bank raised its key interest rate from 9.5% to 20% in an effort to stem the rouble's slump, and the country's finance ministry ordered companies with foreign-currency revenues to convert 80% of their income into roubles.
Economist's rouble collapse
redsquirrelAG said:74OA said:Led by the USA.RONA Ag said:74OA said:
Great article on the financial sanctions. I wasn't aware that we were also able to cut Putin off from the $600B he touted as Russia's "war chest" which would allow it to weather any Western sanctions.
"The new banking restrictions are arguably the most serious form of economic retaliation yet approved by the Western powers in response to Russia's attack on Ukraine. They are aimed at preventing Putin from using his sizable financial reserves totaling more than $600 billion to stabilize the Russian economy in the face of other sanctions and economic measures imposed by the West."
SANCTIONS
Nato is playing this brilliantly so far.
Some of you are so asleep. It's scary. Use your head. Youre being played.
Biden/Obama/Clinton want us engaged there. It's a wet dream. Conflict with Russia in Ukraine your deep state controlled country. So ask, why aren't we?
Who is in control?
For the first time in 100 years we sit out a fight that could expose this administration and several previous ones?
Sure.
Elites play everyone.
All the feel good propaganda sucked you all in.
Or! Maybe Putin is just going senile and surrounded by yes-men and we don't want to start a nuclear war.
Take the tinfoil hat off amigo.
Do some research.
⚡️Kupyansk mayor in Kharkiv Oblast charged with treason.
— The Kyiv Independent (@KyivIndependent) February 28, 2022
Hennadiy Mazehora allegedly cooperated with Russian forces, according to Prosecutor General Iryna Venediktova. She accused him of offering support to the troops that occupied his city and ceding control to them.
More sanctions
⚡️Japan joins Western sanctions against Russia's Central Bank.
— The Kyiv Independent (@KyivIndependent) February 28, 2022
Prime Minister of Japan Fumio Kishida said that Japan would restrict its transactions with Russia’s main bank. Japan will also impose sanctions on Belarusian organizations and individuals, and restrict exports.
Russia's financial system is collapsing. They will not be able to weather that for very long. The average Russian will not be feed themselves in the near future and that may trigger regime change in the Kremlin.
Putin has made Russia a pariah state in just a few weeks. Europe will not trust Russia for at least a generation after this event.
Putin has made Russia a pariah state in just a few weeks. Europe will not trust Russia for at least a generation after this event.
aginresearch said:
Russia's financial system is collapsing. They will not be able to weather that for very long. The average Russian will not be feed themselves in the near future and that may trigger regime change in the Kremlin.
Putin has made Russia a pariah state in just a few weeks. Europe will not trust Russia for at least a generation after this event.
Change within the Kremlin is the only way Russia can salvage something on the global stage at this point.
Apartments of civilians in #Kharkov pic.twitter.com/e62ibQKDZz
— NEXTA (@nexta_tv) February 28, 2022
Problem is anyone with access to take out Putin is likely to be just as bad.FireAg said:aginresearch said:
Russia's financial system is collapsing. They will not be able to weather that for very long. The average Russian will not be feed themselves in the near future and that may trigger regime change in the Kremlin.
Putin has made Russia a pariah state in just a few weeks. Europe will not trust Russia for at least a generation after this event.
Change within the Kremlin is the only way Russo can salvage something on the global stage at this point.
Nor will Russian supported states such as Syria, Iran and Cuba. When the money spigot dries up, what will they do?aginresearch said:
Russia's financial system is collapsing. They will not be able to weather that for very long. The average Russian will not be feed themselves in the near future and that may trigger regime change in the Kremlin.
Putin has made Russia a pariah state in just a few weeks. Europe will not trust Russia for at least a generation after this event.
The fact that Putin had built up a $600 billion war chest in anticipation of more sanctions means he believed he had already seen everything we could throw at him and had calculated how much it would take to prevail.aginresearch said:
Russia's financial system is collapsing. They will not be able to weather that for very long. The average Russian will not be feed themselves in the near future and that may trigger regime change in the Kremlin.
Putin has made Russia a pariah state in just a few weeks. Europe will not trust Russia for at least a generation after this event.
He.was.wrong.
Because Russian military is reactive not proactive... Same trend since Napoleon's invasion.AgsMyDude said:45-70Ag said:NEW: Russia's top military command has ordered heavy strategic bomber flights in effort to block US and European military aid from getting to Ukraine, per a defense ministry statement.
— Jack Detsch (@JackDetsch) February 28, 2022
Russia has tried to "fully destroy" Ukraine's airfields with missile attacks, per Ukraine MoD
I was wondering why it took them so long to try and stop aid from the West....
Hopefully they still have an operational SAM network!
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