It's an extreme lie. I know it's for internal propaganda but it's a matter of record that Ukraine ceded their nukes. It's got zero basis in demonstrable fact that anyone can confirm. And they have literally no plans for nuclear armament, hence their request to join NATO. It's all a bunch of self contradictory bs, which I know is the point of disinformation but it's infuriating.

Putin says his decision on recognition today. If (and I think he will) Putin declares this and says it applies to all of the regions, not just the ones currently occupied, I expect a false flag over night and a launch tomorrow AM. They're plus 8 hours from Texas so around 7-9PM our time would be a good time to expect things to get wild.

will25u said:

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Sen. Ted Cruz: "A month or two from now, if God forbid, we see Russian tanks moving into Ukraine, remember this moment, where Senate Democrats objected said 'No, we won't sanction [Nord Stream 2]. We won't save Ukraine. We won't stand up to Russia.'" pic.twitter.com/9A31EG1nBk

— Steve Guest (@SteveGuest) December 7, 2021

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So much this. Weak & feckless leaders willing to give Putin exactly what he wants gets us into this position. If Putin had to rely on pipelines going through Ukraine we wouldn't be where we are today.

Jock 07 said:

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will25u said:

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Sen. Ted Cruz: "A month or two from now, if God forbid, we see Russian tanks moving into Ukraine, remember this moment, where Senate Democrats objected said 'No, we won't sanction [Nord Stream 2]. We won't save Ukraine. We won't stand up to Russia.'" pic.twitter.com/9A31EG1nBk

— Steve Guest (@SteveGuest) December 7, 2021

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So much this. Weak & feckless leaders willing to give Putin exactly what he wants gets us into this position. If Putin had to rely on pipelines going through Ukraine we wouldn't be where we are today.

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Luckily those pipelines are empty and will stay that way forever if he goes through with this.

Bunch of propaganda until my friends and coworkers start go worry about it. In their opinion Russia isn't going to invade, and Biden is trying to stir **** up.

fooz said:

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Bunch of propaganda until my friends and coworkers start go worry about it. In their opinion Russia isn't going to invade, and Biden is trying to stir **** up.

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Most of them in Kyiv and west?

Dumbest thing I've seen here so far is the Biden needs to just say its an all out war if he invades. Lol the dead would surpass Iraq and Afghanistan in the first day and would lead to two Nuclear Powers battling it out. It might be the dumbest idea I've ever heard.

Highs in the upper 40s and low 50s and lows above freezing with scattered showers in Kyiv region next couple of days. Lunar illumination is 76% tonight and 66% tomorrow. Not far off optimal.

fooz said:

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Bunch of propaganda until my friends and coworkers start go worry about it. In their opinion Russia isn't going to invade, and Biden is trying to stir **** up.

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I get the thought there. But the propaganda is really being ratcheted up the Russians here.

TommyBrady said:

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Dumbest thing I've seen here so far is the Biden needs to just say its an all out war if he invades. Lol the dead would surpass Iraq and Afghanistan in the first day and would lead to two Nuclear Powers battling it out. It might be the dumbest idea I've ever heard.

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That's because you are not smart.

Putin would never invade. That's the point. Chamberlain tried your way. It didn't work out.

Rossticus said:

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That would be a massive chunk of Ukraine.

https://t.me/bbbreaking/115252

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I know I wouldn't be buying real estate in Donbas f I was an ethnic Ukrainian. It seems more a question of where the borders of the de facto Russian protectorate will be drawn than anything else at this point.

Rossticus said:

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Jock 07 said:

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will25u said:

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Sen. Ted Cruz: "A month or two from now, if God forbid, we see Russian tanks moving into Ukraine, remember this moment, where Senate Democrats objected said 'No, we won't sanction [Nord Stream 2]. We won't save Ukraine. We won't stand up to Russia.'" pic.twitter.com/9A31EG1nBk

— Steve Guest (@SteveGuest) December 7, 2021

---

So much this. Weak & feckless leaders willing to give Putin exactly what he wants gets us into this position. If Putin had to rely on pipelines going through Ukraine we wouldn't be where we are today.

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Luckily those pipelines are empty and will stay that way forever if he goes through with this.

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Yea because no one was willing to stop the nordstream, that's kind of the whole point.

There has to be something that US/UK/NATO have up our sleeves. We KNOW that letting Putin sack Kyiv while we watch and bemoan the tragedy will result in seismically negative consequences. No, I don't want US ground troops in Ukraine but we've got to have other rounds in the chamber.

Rossticus said:

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There has to be something that US/UK/NATO have up our sleeves. We KNOW that letting Putin sack Kyiv while we watch and bemoan the tragedy will result in seismically negative consequences. No, I don't want US ground troops in Ukraine but we've got to have other rounds in the chamber.

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I kind of doubt it at this point. Unless they pull off a miracle Kyiv is going to get seized if the Russians go in.

aTmAg said:

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TommyBrady said:

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Dumbest thing I've seen here so far is the Biden needs to just say its an all out war if he invades. Lol the dead would surpass Iraq and Afghanistan in the first day and would lead to two Nuclear Powers battling it out. It might be the dumbest idea I've ever heard.

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That's because you are not smart.

Putin would never invade. That's the point. Chamberlain tried your way. It didn't work out.

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Yes he would, because he knows Biden would be bluffing. There is no way Biden would get involved militarily since it would guarantee a democrat slaughter in the next 2 elections.

And for once, THAT decision to not get involved would be the only thing Biden has done right (not that he has handled the situation to date correctly - he has NOT).

The US cannot afford to go to war. If we do, we lose billions of dollars in military hardware alone. And our current debt to GDP ratio makes military use nearly impossible to recover from. And then there would be the death count he would have to justify. You think ANY democrat voters care about the Ukraine? Yeah, no.

aezmvp said:

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Rossticus said:

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There has to be something that US/UK/NATO have up our sleeves. We KNOW that letting Putin sack Kyiv while we watch and bemoan the tragedy will result in seismically negative consequences. No, I don't want US ground troops in Ukraine but we've got to have other rounds in the chamber.

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I kind of doubt it at this point. Unless they pull off a miracle Kyiv is going to get seized if the Russians go in.

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And then China takes Taiwan because we've set precedent that we won't protect a sovereign nation. How can we justify doing more for Taiwan? We'd lose complete credibility with Europe if we did.

Jock 07 said:

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will25u said:

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Sen. Ted Cruz: "A month or two from now, if God forbid, we see Russian tanks moving into Ukraine, remember this moment, where Senate Democrats objected said 'No, we won't sanction [Nord Stream 2]. We won't save Ukraine. We won't stand up to Russia.'" pic.twitter.com/9A31EG1nBk

— Steve Guest (@SteveGuest) December 7, 2021

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So much this. Weak & feckless leaders willing to give Putin exactly what he wants gets us into this position. If Putin had to rely on pipelines going through Ukraine we wouldn't be where we are today.

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It's incumbent upon every freedom-loving American to not let this fact be buried in the noise.

Where we are now was highly predictable at the time the west allowed Nordstream 2 to happen, no Monday morning QB needed. The compromised and ineffectual leadership by the left in the US, and the Germans with the rest of NATO not far behind, will have blood on their hands if/when this gets bloody.

Rossticus said:

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There has to be something that US/UK/NATO have up our sleeves. We KNOW that letting Putin sack Kyiv while we watch and bemoan the tragedy will result in seismically negative consequences. No, I don't want US ground troops in Ukraine but we've got to have other rounds in the chamber.

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I listened to a geopolitical update from Ashton Carter early last month and his commentary on this topic was that this would be a proxy, guerilla war fought by the West against Russia inside Ukraine.

So, really all that is up our sleeves is to make this Afghanistan 2.0 for Putin if he decides to go in.

YouBet said:

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Rossticus said:

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There has to be something that US/UK/NATO have up our sleeves. We KNOW that letting Putin sack Kyiv while we watch and bemoan the tragedy will result in seismically negative consequences. No, I don't want US ground troops in Ukraine but we've got to have other rounds in the chamber.

---

I listened to a geopolitical update from Ashton Carter early last month and his commentary on this topic was that this would be a proxy, guerilla war fought by the West against Russia inside Ukraine.

So, really all that is up our sleeves is to make this Afghanistan 2.0 for Putin if he decides to go in.

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That's horrific. There will be nothing left of Ukraine by the end of it.

Rossticus said:

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aezmvp said:

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Rossticus said:

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There has to be something that US/UK/NATO have up our sleeves. We KNOW that letting Putin sack Kyiv while we watch and bemoan the tragedy will result in seismically negative consequences. No, I don't want US ground troops in Ukraine but we've got to have other rounds in the chamber.

---

I kind of doubt it at this point. Unless they pull off a miracle Kyiv is going to get seized if the Russians go in.

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And then China takes Taiwan because we've set precedent that we won't protect a sovereign nation. How can we justify doing more for Taiwan? We'd lose complete credibility with Europe if we did.

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We already have resources in Taiwan though. That was reported before Ukraine kicked off. Taiwan also has greater strategic importance to the world than Ukraine could ever hope to have.

Taiwan is simply a non-negotiable whereas Ukraine is fodder.

Rossticus said:

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YouBet said:

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Rossticus said:

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There has to be something that US/UK/NATO have up our sleeves. We KNOW that letting Putin sack Kyiv while we watch and bemoan the tragedy will result in seismically negative consequences. No, I don't want US ground troops in Ukraine but we've got to have other rounds in the chamber.

---

I listened to a geopolitical update from Ashton Carter early last month and his commentary on this topic was that this would be a proxy, guerilla war fought by the West against Russia inside Ukraine.

So, really all that is up our sleeves is to make this Afghanistan 2.0 for Putin if he decides to go in.

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That's horrific.

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Yes, that will be horrific for the Ukrainians. I'm not sure it's a better outcome than just ceding the eastern parts to Putin, but that's obviously debatable.

YouBet said:

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Rossticus said:

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There has to be something that US/UK/NATO have up our sleeves. We KNOW that letting Putin sack Kyiv while we watch and bemoan the tragedy will result in seismically negative consequences. No, I don't want US ground troops in Ukraine but we've got to have other rounds in the chamber.

---

I listened to a geopolitical update from Ashton Carter early last month and his commentary on this topic was that this would be a proxy, guerilla war fought by the West against Russia inside Ukraine.

So, really all that is up our sleeves is to make this Afghanistan 2.0 for Putin if he decides to go in.

---

javajaws said:

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aTmAg said:

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TommyBrady said:

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Dumbest thing I've seen here so far is the Biden needs to just say its an all out war if he invades. Lol the dead would surpass Iraq and Afghanistan in the first day and would lead to two Nuclear Powers battling it out. It might be the dumbest idea I've ever heard.

---

That's because you are not smart.

Putin would never invade. That's the point. Chamberlain tried your way. It didn't work out.

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Yes he would, because he knows Biden would be bluffing. There is no way Biden would get involved militarily since it would guarantee a democrat slaughter in the next 2 elections.

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That's the fundamental problem. Biden is an idiot that has no idea what he is doing. The point is to make the threat with 100% willingness to back it up if Putin defies it. That willingness would be obvious to everybody (just as Biden's weakness is obvious to eveybody), and Putin wouldn't go in.

Quote:

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And for once, THAT decision to not get involved would be the only thing Biden has done right (not that he has handled the situation to date correctly - he has NOT).

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He has done nothing right. And it's gauranteed that if Putin invades, then whatever Biden does will be the wrong response.

Quote:

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The US cannot afford to go to war. If we do, we lose billions of dollars in military hardware alone. And our current debt to GDP ratio makes military use nearly impossible to recover from. And then there would be the death count he would have to justify. You think ANY democrat voters care about the Ukraine? Yeah, no.

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The US cannot afford being known as weak. Ukraine would be the start. China would have 2 years to invade Taiwan, and who knows who else would invade what. Nobody would ally with the US again (for good reason).

YouBet said:

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Rossticus said:

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aezmvp said:

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Rossticus said:

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There has to be something that US/UK/NATO have up our sleeves. We KNOW that letting Putin sack Kyiv while we watch and bemoan the tragedy will result in seismically negative consequences. No, I don't want US ground troops in Ukraine but we've got to have other rounds in the chamber.

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I kind of doubt it at this point. Unless they pull off a miracle Kyiv is going to get seized if the Russians go in.

---

And then China takes Taiwan because we've set precedent that we won't protect a sovereign nation. How can we justify doing more for Taiwan? We'd lose complete credibility with Europe if we did.

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We already have resources in Taiwan though. That was reported before Ukraine kicked off. Taiwan also has greater strategic importance to the world than Ukraine could ever hope to have.

Taiwan is simply a non-negotiable whereas Ukraine is fodder.

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We'll see. I have no confidence in the administration, particularly without a host of allies to keep it from becoming a bumblefork.

A response to Russia/Ukraine and China/Taiwan potential invasions should not be the US acting alone.

There should be Allied nations lining up to act with the US with a military response. If not, our alliances mean nothing and it will be a free-for-all. Why would Russia and China stop invading neighbors? Our allies in Europe and Asia/Pacific have more of a reason to fight back militarily than we do,

Some acts merit more than "sanctions".

I don't want ANY war. But, we probably will have one.

YouBet said:

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Rossticus said:

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There has to be something that US/UK/NATO have up our sleeves. We KNOW that letting Putin sack Kyiv while we watch and bemoan the tragedy will result in seismically negative consequences. No, I don't want US ground troops in Ukraine but we've got to have other rounds in the chamber.

---

I listened to a geopolitical update from Ashton Carter early last month and his commentary on this topic was that this would be a proxy, guerilla war fought by the West against Russia inside Ukraine.

So, really all that is up our sleeves is to make this Afghanistan 2.0 for Putin if he decides to go in.

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That basically summarizes the last eight years of conflict in Ukraine.

Rossticus said:

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YouBet said:

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Rossticus said:

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aezmvp said:

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Rossticus said:

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There has to be something that US/UK/NATO have up our sleeves. We KNOW that letting Putin sack Kyiv while we watch and bemoan the tragedy will result in seismically negative consequences. No, I don't want US ground troops in Ukraine but we've got to have other rounds in the chamber.

---

I kind of doubt it at this point. Unless they pull off a miracle Kyiv is going to get seized if the Russians go in.

---

And then China takes Taiwan because we've set precedent that we won't protect a sovereign nation. How can we justify doing more for Taiwan? We'd lose complete credibility with Europe if we did.

---

We already have resources in Taiwan though. That was reported before Ukraine kicked off. Taiwan also has greater strategic importance to the world than Ukraine could ever hope to have.

Taiwan is simply a non-negotiable whereas Ukraine is fodder.

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We'll see. I have no confidence in the administration, particularly without a host of allies to keep it from becoming a bumblefork.

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No argument there. Those assets in Taiwan were put there under Trump to get ahead of things. Biden probably not even aware where Taiwan is on a map.

Interesting comments from UK. Debatable what "full support" means in this context, though. As the reality of the situation crystallizes do some European countries become convinced that opposing Putin is a necessary action in their own long term self interest? Or is this just more hot air?

David Wallace said:

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A response to Russia/Ukraine and China/Taiwan potential invasions should not be the US acting alone.

There should be Allied nations lining up to act with the US with a military response. If not, our alliances mean nothing and it will be a free-for-all. Why would Russia and China stop invading neighbors? Our allies in Europe and Asia/Pacific have more of a reason to fight back militarily than we do,

Some acts merit more than "sanctions".

I don't want ANY war. But, we probably will have one.

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Taiwan is a big damn deal. The UK already publicly threatened nuclear war with China if they invaded Taiwan. That's how big of a deal Taiwan is. You have heard no such preempting rhetoric over Ukraine.

jabberwalkie09 said:

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YouBet said:

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Rossticus said:

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There has to be something that US/UK/NATO have up our sleeves. We KNOW that letting Putin sack Kyiv while we watch and bemoan the tragedy will result in seismically negative consequences. No, I don't want US ground troops in Ukraine but we've got to have other rounds in the chamber.

---

I listened to a geopolitical update from Ashton Carter early last month and his commentary on this topic was that this would be a proxy, guerilla war fought by the West against Russia inside Ukraine.

So, really all that is up our sleeves is to make this Afghanistan 2.0 for Putin if he decides to go in.

---

That basically summarizes the last eight years of conflict in Ukraine.

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Yes, now ratchet it up exponentially with NATO fully committing resources to it.

YouBet said:

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David Wallace said:

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A response to Russia/Ukraine and China/Taiwan potential invasions should not be the US acting alone.

There should be Allied nations lining up to act with the US with a military response. If not, our alliances mean nothing and it will be a free-for-all. Why would Russia and China stop invading neighbors? Our allies in Europe and Asia/Pacific have more of a reason to fight back militarily than we do,

Some acts merit more than "sanctions".

I don't want ANY war. But, we probably will have one.

---

Taiwan is a big damn deal. The UK already publicly threatened nuclear war with China if they invaded Taiwan. That's how big of a deal Taiwan is. You have heard no such preempting rhetoric over Ukraine.

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Which is why if I'm China, I work strategically with Russia to let them keep the Europeans focused on Europe.

Wow. This extraordinary Russian Security Council meeting is absolutely bonkers and does give you the sense Putin’s lost his mind. Seems we’re close to Russia actually recognizing Donetsk and Luhansk “people’s republics” as independent and Moscow officially sending troops to help. pic.twitter.com/DxsxDlHqMz

— Christopher Miller (@ChristopherJM) February 21, 2022

Matvienko: Ukraine is just territory, to Russia it's our people. Ukrainians have become hostage to the West's anti-Russian project. Biden snapped his fingers and Shokin was fired. So if the US wanted to solve the question in Ukraine they could.

— Christopher Miller (@ChristopherJM) February 21, 2022

Russian FSB director Patrushev says Russia can only negotiate with the US about Ukraine. Everyone else will fall in line. He adds that US's ultimate goal is to destroy Russia.

— Christopher Miller (@ChristopherJM) February 21, 2022