NicosMachine said:

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I'm not sure why Biden keeps hyping this game when the teams aren't even scheduled to meet this year. It's almost as if he is the television executive trying to promote a matchup that will make the network a lot of money but won't serve anyone else.

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Considering we should have no dog in the fight, we sure are doing a lot of war mongering

We’re looking at maybe 200+ helicopters deployed near Ukraine in the last week or 2. For example Novoozerne in Crimea has 67 at a single site.

— ELINT News (@ELINTNews) February 18, 2022

That's really not a lot of helicopters for 150000 troops. What are you thinking?

Serotonin said:

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Quote:

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But, yeah. I choose to believe my S2/G2 over keyboard warriors. But keep at it. Let me know how the sand tastes.

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Sorry man, I don't know what this means.

As Americans we're called to be citizens and participants in our Republic.

That means that we have responsibility for how our government is run and our how our tax dollars are spent.

Are we supposed to cower and defer to experts without questioning them?

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Blue starred

Serotonin said:

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Quote:

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But, yeah. I choose to believe my S2/G2 over keyboard warriors. But keep at it. Let me know how the sand tastes.

---

Sorry man, I don't know what this means.

As Americans we're called to be citizens and participants in our Republic.

That means that we have responsibility for how our government is run and our how our tax dollars are spent.

Are we supposed to cower and defer to experts without questioning them?

---

They're out military intelligence analysts that do it for a living. Healthy skepticism is always good but at some point I choose to believe our professionals. At best we are squandering or postponing Putins plans and worst we, and the rest of the Western world, have egg on our faces. Do you really choose to believe Russia/China over the rest of the free world? I don't.

wildmen09 said:

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Serotonin said:

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Quote:

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But, yeah. I choose to believe my S2/G2 over keyboard warriors. But keep at it. Let me know how the sand tastes.

---

Sorry man, I don't know what this means.

As Americans we're called to be citizens and participants in our Republic.

That means that we have responsibility for how our government is run and our how our tax dollars are spent.

Are we supposed to cower and defer to experts without questioning them?

---

They're out military intelligence analysts that do it for a living. Healthy skepticism is always good but at some point I choose to believe our professionals. At best we are squandering or postponing Putins plans and worst we, and the rest of the Western world, have egg on our faces. Do you really choose to believe Russia/China over the rest of the free world? I don't.

---

I choose to be objective and observe as I can. I don't even have cable tv anymore to view what had been my preferred foxnews but hell even fox isn't impartial or without significant influence. At times, I do believe china and Russia more than what is reported. No major player is ever close to 100% honesty.

I would die to protect my country but I'd rather die than thinking my government has always been honest with me.

Ernest Tucker said:

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wildmen09 said:

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Serotonin said:

---

Quote:

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But, yeah. I choose to believe my S2/G2 over keyboard warriors. But keep at it. Let me know how the sand tastes.

---

Sorry man, I don't know what this means.

As Americans we're called to be citizens and participants in our Republic.

That means that we have responsibility for how our government is run and our how our tax dollars are spent.

Are we supposed to cower and defer to experts without questioning them?

---

They're out military intelligence analysts that do it for a living. Healthy skepticism is always good but at some point I choose to believe our professionals. At best we are squandering or postponing Putins plans and worst we, and the rest of the Western world, have egg on our faces. Do you really choose to believe Russia/China over the rest of the free world? I don't.

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IDK man, with what our occupants in the White House, Canada, France and Australia are doing to instill fear in their own people, can you really call us the free world anymore?

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We're, relatively speaking without accounting for changes in technology and laws, as free as we've ever been with regard to information dissemination. More free when you account for tech advancement because of the constant availability of freely accessible sources.

Government has always tightly controlled the narrative (since day 1) but there is a massive divide in the free availability of information in the US vs the full control, censorship, and massive disinformation of Russia and China. It's not even close.

wildmen09 said:

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That's really not a lot of helicopters for 150000 troops. What are you thinking?

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I don't know what kind of helicopters/disposition of type is. I know Mi-28's and Ka-52's have been spotted. I'm trying to remember what Soviet assault doctrine is and if the Russian doctrine has evolved at all. We've seen a lot of mechanized, armor, and self propelled artillery/air defense. Of course some Mi-8's are in the mix as well. I don't think these are necessarily meant for troop transport.

I'd probably guess that the units closer to the border are attack helicopters. I want to say Russia has leaned heavily on the use of helicopters in the past but given that we have Su-25's and Su-34's in the area with the Ukrainians having received stingers and Javelins, unsure how these would be used. It does seem like the Russians do like to use the 34's if Syria is an indication.

Rossticus said:

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Ernest Tucker said:

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wildmen09 said:

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Serotonin said:

---

Quote:

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But, yeah. I choose to believe my S2/G2 over keyboard warriors. But keep at it. Let me know how the sand tastes.

---

Sorry man, I don't know what this means.

As Americans we're called to be citizens and participants in our Republic.

That means that we have responsibility for how our government is run and our how our tax dollars are spent.

Are we supposed to cower and defer to experts without questioning them?

---

They're out military intelligence analysts that do it for a living. Healthy skepticism is always good but at some point I choose to believe our professionals. At best we are squandering or postponing Putins plans and worst we, and the rest of the Western world, have egg on our faces. Do you really choose to believe Russia/China over the rest of the free world? I don't.

---

IDK man, with what our occupants in the White House, Canada, France and Australia are doing to instill fear in their own people, can you really call us the free world anymore?

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We're, relatively speaking without accounting for changes in technology and laws, as free as we've ever been with regard to information dissemination. More free actually because of the constant availability of freely accessible sources.

Government has always tightly controlled the narrative (since day 1) but there is a massive divide in the free availability of information in the US vs the full control, censorship, and massive disinformation of Russia and China. It's not even close.

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Yeah man, but it's not just the government controlling the narrative anymore. It's full on government, entertainment
, sports, Fortune 500 and silicone valley controlling not only the narrative, but outright silencing people who don't agree with the narrative. Hell, Neighboors are encouraged to rat out neighbors, I don't really feel as free as I did 10 years ago

Edit: last post, don't want to derail a great thread

2nd edit was to correct "eat out Neighbors" to "rat out neighbors". Lol

jabberwalkie09 said:

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wildmen09 said:

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That's really not a lot of helicopters for 150000 troops. What are you thinking?

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I don't know what kind of helicopters/disposition of type is. I know Mi-28's and Ka-52's have been spotted. I'm trying to remember what Soviet assault doctrine is and if the Russian doctrine has evolved at all. We've seen a lot of mechanized, armor, and self propelled artillery/air defense. Of course some Mi-8's are in the mix as well. I don't think these are necessarily meant for troop transport.

I'd probably guess that the units closer to the border are attack helicopters. I want to say Russia has leaned heavily on the use of helicopters in the past but given that we have Su-25's and Su-34's in the area with the Ukrainians having received stingers and Javelins, unsure how these would be used. It does seem like the Russians do like to use the 34's if Syria is an indication.

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You clearly have seriously more knowledge than I do. I just know our IBCTs aren't just trouncing around a battlefield without lift. Do you think that's what the Russians are doing or are they heavily ABCT equivalent with attack and reconnaissance helos?

TAMUallen said:

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wildmen09 said:

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Serotonin said:

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Quote:

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But, yeah. I choose to believe my S2/G2 over keyboard warriors. But keep at it. Let me know how the sand tastes.

---

Sorry man, I don't know what this means.

As Americans we're called to be citizens and participants in our Republic.

That means that we have responsibility for how our government is run and our how our tax dollars are spent.

Are we supposed to cower and defer to experts without questioning them?

---

They're out military intelligence analysts that do it for a living. Healthy skepticism is always good but at some point I choose to believe our professionals. At best we are squandering or postponing Putins plans and worst we, and the rest of the Western world, have egg on our faces. Do you really choose to believe Russia/China over the rest of the free world? I don't.

---

I choose to be objective and observe as I can. I don't even have cable tv anymore to view what had been my preferred foxnews but hell even fox isn't impartial or without significant influence. At times, I do believe china and Russia more than what is reported. No major player is ever close to 100% honesty.

I would die to protect my country but I'd rather die than thinking my government has always been honest with me.

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Who said "always?" I have no delusions of grandeur when it comes to our government. But being neutral isn't much of an option in WWIII in my case. I have to choose to believe. Maybe that's the difference you and I fundamentally.

wildmen09 said:

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jabberwalkie09 said:

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wildmen09 said:

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That's really not a lot of helicopters for 150000 troops. What are you thinking?

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I don't know what kind of helicopters/disposition of type is. I know Mi-28's and Ka-52's have been spotted. I'm trying to remember what Soviet assault doctrine is and if the Russian doctrine has evolved at all. We've seen a lot of mechanized, armor, and self propelled artillery/air defense. Of course some Mi-8's are in the mix as well. I don't think these are necessarily meant for troop transport.

I'd probably guess that the units closer to the border are attack helicopters. I want to say Russia has leaned heavily on the use of helicopters in the past but given that we have Su-25's and Su-34's in the area with the Ukrainians having received stingers and Javelins, unsure how these would be used. It does seem like the Russians do like to use the 34's if Syria is an indication.

---

You clearly have seriously more knowledge than I do. I just know our IBCTs aren't just trouncing around a battlefield without lift. Do you think that's what the Russians are doing or are they heavily ABCT equivalent with attack and reconnaissance helos?

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Their helo strategy has changed considerably from Chechnya to now. I know that their helo component compared to a US is going to be significantly less in terms of numbers however. I would say one thing to remember is that those 200 are the ones out in the open in just one of their major sections. They also have significant number of airfields in Crimea where there are several hundred more helos and there are probably have a significant number in Belarus and around Rostov too. I don't have Jane's handy on a bookshelf but if wikipedia is anywhere close they may have 60% or more of their total helo capacity forward deployed. I imagine they will still keep a fair amount in and around the Baltics and St. Petersburg/Moscow so of the available helo strength, I'd say they're making a major commitment. Again, admitted amateur chiming in here.

wildmen09 said:

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jabberwalkie09 said:

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wildmen09 said:

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That's really not a lot of helicopters for 150000 troops. What are you thinking?

---

I don't know what kind of helicopters/disposition of type is. I know Mi-28's and Ka-52's have been spotted. I'm trying to remember what Soviet assault doctrine is and if the Russian doctrine has evolved at all. We've seen a lot of mechanized, armor, and self propelled artillery/air defense. Of course some Mi-8's are in the mix as well. I don't think these are necessarily meant for troop transport.

I'd probably guess that the units closer to the border are attack helicopters. I want to say Russia has leaned heavily on the use of helicopters in the past but given that we have Su-25's and Su-34's in the area with the Ukrainians having received stingers and Javelins, unsure how these would be used. It does seem like the Russians do like to use the 34's if Syria is an indication.

---

You clearly have seriously more knowledge than I do. I just know our IBCTs aren't just trouncing around a battlefield without lift. Do you think that's what the Russians are doing or are they heavily ABCT equivalent with attack and reconnaissance helos?

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Too much time on my hands and some good open source stuff from over the years. I remember reading that the Russian military emphasized volume of fire and armor/mechanized units being the core of how they plan and have an attack focused mind set. What we have been focusing on a lot in the news and otherwise is ABCT type of units. IIRC mechanized infantry equivalent is integrated into the ground forces units. Light infantry I don't think really exists in a Cold War era type of sense anymore. Sure dismounted patrols occur, but I don't think most modern armies have a true light infantry at their core these days.

https://www.ausa.org/publications/how-fight-russians

Serotonin said:

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Rossticus said:

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Reposting here. Posted elsewhere because I'm fed up with the narrative that the USA is so weak that Joe Biden automatically makes us a loser at everything, everywhere.

You're overestimating Biden's involvement in this and a potential Taiwan engagement unless he just inexplicably chooses to back out. There are too many other players involved in both matters. If this was unilateral US action then I'd get your point but we're talking about Biden PLUS the leaders of most of Europe. President dementia's impact is sufficiently diluted.

The whole "US is automatically a loser because Biden is president" is starting to piss me off. I don't define myself or my country by who the temporarily elected leader is. Russia IS Vladimir Putin. The United States of America IS NOT Joe ****ing Biden. We have a lot of brilliant and brave folks working on our behalf and I refuse to discount their impact based on one doddering old man.

Even in the midst of the Cold War, Reagan's onset of Alzheimer's didn't sink us. FDR didn't sink us in WW2. Biden will not sink us. We're better than that. We're more than that.

This is far more on the Obama administration (now President creepy pee-paw included) setting the stage with their "non deterrence doctrine". They set this stage but we're not going to be defined by them.

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This isn't actually the problem.

The problem is the question of what worldview we're fighting for.

The American people are not for pushing smut, LGBTQ++, Soros, etc but that seems to be where we've aligned ourselves internationally.

You distrust the swamp here but suddenly trust them as soon as we leave American soil?

Sorry, I don't give a sh*t about a Russian/Ukraine spat other than hoping there is limited human suffering.

I care much more about the fact that our own country is in a slow motion cultural collapse.

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We've aligned ourselves with smut internationally??!! That's your angle on the buildup and possible invasion? To be fair given our Playboys, Penthouses, pornography, and permissive point of view we're the smut that some other countries have aligned with, notwithstanding the peril to their immortal souls.

I wish there was some sort of third branch of Islam so we could get our fundie on in earnest. Sunni, Shia, and Sh** Kickers. Sinners beware!

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-60428211

Russia taking their claims up a notch.

⚡️Russian Ministry of Defense has just announced that tomorrow Feb 19 they will have military exercise with launches of ballistic and cruise missiles

All under personal control of Putin(and also of Lukashenko as he just added)

That's just how you roll with usual drills

— Margo Gontar (@MargoGontar) February 18, 2022

Tonight, wires were cut on Vodafone lines in 3 cities in Eastern Ukraine. Zero connection for few hours, was restored by morning@MVS_UA :"This is part of Russia's plan to destabilize situation in Ukraine. We must understand sabotage at communications facilities will continue" pic.twitter.com/PmSaHmPyA8

— Margo Gontar (@MargoGontar) February 18, 2022

Video of BMP-1/2 IFV’s from a train loading on flatbeds in Novozybkov, uploaded 9 hours ago geolocated at the train station 36km from Ukraine, 52°31'25"N 31°56'53"E. https://t.co/6nDCMCiHNt pic.twitter.com/romF6ocsey

— ELINT News (@ELINTNews) February 18, 2022

gougler08 said:

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NicosMachine said:

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I'm not sure why Biden keeps hyping this game when the teams aren't even scheduled to meet this year. It's almost as if he is the television executive trying to promote a matchup that will make the network a lot of money but won't serve anyone else.

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Considering we should have no dog in the fight, we sure are doing a lot of war mongering

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We have a dog in this fight and it's Ukraine.

We aren't doing any warmongering when we disclose the our intelligence of Russia's invasion force. Biden didn't put a 100 Russia combat units on Ukraine's border.

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/stocks-tumble-after-donbas-separatists-announce-evacuation-women-children-russia

Russians in control of Donbas claim they are evacuating women and children to the east towards Russia to save them from Ukraine battles

*PUTIN: RUSSIA'S ISN'T AGAINST TALKS ON U.S. SECURITY PRPOPOSALS

— *Walter Bloomberg (@DeItaone) February 18, 2022

PUTIN SAYS WE ARE READY TO FOLLOW NEGOTIATION TRACK WITH NATO ON SECURITY GUARANTEES

— *Walter Bloomberg (@DeItaone) February 18, 2022

I'd rather focus on making sure Taiwan is okay and all the silicon we rely on from them than the Ukraine.

It would be smart for the Ukrainians to start infiltrating hunter killer units close to the Russian armor and start testing out their JAVELINS

the world is already prepped to believe the Russians are looking for a false flag attack so not only could the Ukrainians cause some confusion and losses to the Russkies, but blame them for starting aggression as well.

Whirligigs said:

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I'd rather focus on making sure Taiwan is okay and all the silicon we rely on from them than the Ukraine.

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no way we fight the Commies over Taiwan.

we just lost a war to literal goat f@ckers

and now Biden is going to take on a million man army with equipment on the level of the USA?!

not going to happen.

for those who aren't aware of the concept..

google: "MASKIROVKA"

Quote:

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and now Biden is going to take on a million man army with equipment on the level of the USA?!

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Where do y'all come up with this *****

LMCane said:

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It would be smart for the Ukrainians to start infiltrating hunter killer units close to the Russian armor and start testing out their JAVELINS

the world is already prepped to believe the Russians are looking for a false flag attack so not only could the Ukrainians cause some confusion and losses to the Russkies, but blame them for starting aggression as well.

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Taking a couple tanks out early is definitely worth ensuring a war where your nation gets crushed kicks off.

New S2 update video dropped. Haven't vetted it yet, but these dudes do great work and expect the same for this one. Will be watching on my lunch break later.

Rossticus said:

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Ernest Tucker said:

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wildmen09 said:

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Serotonin said:

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Quote:

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But, yeah. I choose to believe my S2/G2 over keyboard warriors. But keep at it. Let me know how the sand tastes.

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Sorry man, I don't know what this means.

As Americans we're called to be citizens and participants in our Republic.

That means that we have responsibility for how our government is run and our how our tax dollars are spent.

Are we supposed to cower and defer to experts without questioning them?

---

They're out military intelligence analysts that do it for a living. Healthy skepticism is always good but at some point I choose to believe our professionals. At best we are squandering or postponing Putins plans and worst we, and the rest of the Western world, have egg on our faces. Do you really choose to believe Russia/China over the rest of the free world? I don't.

---

IDK man, with what our occupants in the White House, Canada, France and Australia are doing to instill fear in their own people, can you really call us the free world anymore?

---

We're, relatively speaking without accounting for changes in technology and laws, as free as we've ever been with regard to information dissemination. More free when you account for tech advancement because of the constant availability of freely accessible sources.

Government has always tightly controlled the narrative (since day 1) but there is a massive divide in the free availability of information in the US vs the full control, censorship, and massive disinformation of Russia and China. It's not even close.

---

2 years of Russia Russia Russia were straight up lies and propaganda. I completely disagree with you.

Our media is controlled by 1 party and all they care about is power and influence.

NOW - Sirens sound in #Donetsk after separatist leader announced the evacuation of civilians to Russia.pic.twitter.com/fdMcHzt1mL

— Disclose.tv (@disclosetv) February 18, 2022

PearlJammin said:

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Rossticus said:

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Ernest Tucker said:

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wildmen09 said:

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Serotonin said:

---

Quote:

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But, yeah. I choose to believe my S2/G2 over keyboard warriors. But keep at it. Let me know how the sand tastes.

---

Sorry man, I don't know what this means.

As Americans we're called to be citizens and participants in our Republic.

That means that we have responsibility for how our government is run and our how our tax dollars are spent.

Are we supposed to cower and defer to experts without questioning them?

---

They're out military intelligence analysts that do it for a living. Healthy skepticism is always good but at some point I choose to believe our professionals. At best we are squandering or postponing Putins plans and worst we, and the rest of the Western world, have egg on our faces. Do you really choose to believe Russia/China over the rest of the free world? I don't.

---

IDK man, with what our occupants in the White House, Canada, France and Australia are doing to instill fear in their own people, can you really call us the free world anymore?

---

We're, relatively speaking without accounting for changes in technology and laws, as free as we've ever been with regard to information dissemination. More free when you account for tech advancement because of the constant availability of freely accessible sources.

Government has always tightly controlled the narrative (since day 1) but there is a massive divide in the free availability of information in the US vs the full control, censorship, and massive disinformation of Russia and China. It's not even close.

---

2 years of Russia Russia Russia were straight up lies and propaganda. I completely disagree with you.

Our media is controlled by 1 party and all they care about is power and influence.

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Yes, we almost had a literal coup and ultimately did through their non-stop witch hunt efforts. Conservatives are unable to voice their opinions nearly as freely as the left without risking job termination, public expulsion, etc.

We are laughably not more free. And these freely accessible sources are moot in the face of 2A being neutered and digital currency.

Quote:

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Biden didn't put a 100 Russia combat units on Ukraine's border.

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No, but his weakness and ineptitude did.