JUST IN - France, Spain, Denmark, and the Netherlands deploy additional ships and aircraft to the Baltics and Eastern Europe amid tensions with Russia.

— Disclose.tv (@disclosetv) January 24, 2022

Russia says high risk of Ukrainian offensive in Donbas. Complete bull shit. Zero chance of Ukraine risking provoking Moscow in such a way. Moscow now just creating pretext to attack. No other explanation.

— Timothy Ash (@tashecon) January 24, 2022

Soooo…Russia says Ukraine is going invade the Donbas.

Right now.

With a hundred thousand Russians on the other side of the border.

#yeasure

You have to remember German has a contract with Russia for their gas/oil so it is unlikely they will help unless things really get bad.

Would nato have the guts to wipe out the one existing and two under construction massive lng plants they have in northern Siberia? state of the art, massive, state owned (51% at least with rest owned by China and a small part owned by French Total).

Doubt they would. But the USA should make it happen anyway, and also destroying the rest of their gas delivery system as a way to punish Putin, thereby forcing Europe to seek gas from the USA. Of course, that would be the last thing Biden would do, further the usa's interest as part of a response to Russian aggression. "No blood for gas. Just blood."

P.U.T.U said:

---

You have to remember German has a contract with Russia for their gas/oil so it is unlikely they will help unless things really get bad.

---

Yep it's winter and they get their gas from Russia. Trump was right again. Germany will be sitting this one out.

Problem is if anything happens now the Russians will believe it was an industrial sabotage and not an accident.

Another major issue is Biden already released sanctions on Russia for the Nord Stream 2 pipeline, that was his bargaining chip and he just gave it back to the Russians. He needs to immediately reinstate the sanctions and start showing the world all of the Russian troops on the Ukraine border.

Biden also needs to approve pipelines in the USA and open up oil and gas here. If you kill the Nord Stream 2 then we can work on an agreement with Germany and other European countries for exports. WTI is around $85 now and yet the oil companies are still holding back on investing money.

Biden is incapable of doing anything. It is appalling how he has not been removed from office by now. Harris isn't going to be any good but at least she is coherent in the mind.

Whirligigs said:

---

Biden is incapable of doing anything. It is appalling how he has not been removed from office by now. Harris isn't going to be any good but at least she is coherent in the mind.

---

I used to think this.

Harris has huge personality problems that make her decision making just as bad as Biden's.

I think she is just really dumb and too lazy to work to read/learn information. Not great news at all, but it would be an improvement over an old senile guy prone to losing his temper at any given moment when he gets mad about his memory failing/a perceived slight etc.

We have to go through these processes - there has to be some sort of accountability. Or we just need to abandon foreign interests and hole up at home until our society tries and figures out what the hell we are doing. What a mess things are now.

HumpitPuryear said:

---

P.U.T.U said:

---

You have to remember German has a contract with Russia for their gas/oil so it is unlikely they will help unless things really get bad.

---

Yep it's winter and they get their gas from Russia. Trump was right again. Germany will be sitting this one out.

---

I don't know that it matters at this point. If the rest of NATO backs Ukraine, Russia will weaponize that gas and the Germans will freeze to death in the bed they made. No one will realistically be able to get energy to the whole of Europe fast enough.

At that point it might become a matter of where Putin decides to stop his advance.

RoadkillBBQ said:

---

Whirligigs said:

---

Biden is incapable of doing anything. It is appalling how he has not been removed from office by now. Harris isn't going to be any good but at least she is coherent in the mind.

---

He hasn't been removed because his handlers don't want him removed.
He isn't running this country.

---

Agreed. Biden is a figurehead and nothing more. It's damn dangerous because we don't know who is truly in charge. Republicans are powerless to pull his plug.

So...
Thing is Kamala is equally or even more dangerous. While we would know who is in charge with her at the helm, she's beyond incompetent. She's universally disliked by everyone, and carries less respect globally than Biden. I don't think anyone wants her in charge.

If things get bad enough to truly necessitate direct US involvement, I don't think there is a good solution. No mean tweets have really left this country in a BAD place.

How does Germany just sit this out? Aren't they part of NATO? Don't they have an obligation to other NATO countries? After the Russians take Ukraine in very short order, Poland will be the cross hairs and eventually they'll be next and later Germany. That's just how it works.

Kenneth_2003 said:

---

RoadkillBBQ said:

---

Whirligigs said:

---

Biden is incapable of doing anything. It is appalling how he has not been removed from office by now. Harris isn't going to be any good but at least she is coherent in the mind.

---

He hasn't been removed because his handlers don't want him removed.
He isn't running this country.

---

Agreed. Biden is a figurehead and nothing more. It's damn dangerous because we don't know who is truly in charge. Republicans are powerless to pull his plug.

So...
Thing is Kamala is equally or even more dangerous. While we would know who is in charge with her at the helm, she's beyond incompetent. She's universally disliked by everyone, and carries less respect globally than Biden. I don't think anyone wants her in charge.

If things get bad enough to truly necessitate direct US involvement, I don't think there is a good solution. No mean tweets have really left this country in a BAD place.

---

We know who is in charge. Obama.

Burnsey said:

---

How does Germany just sit this out? Aren't they part of NATO? Don't they have an obligation to other NATO countries? After the Russians take Ukraine in very short order, Poland will be the cross hairs and eventually they'll be next and later Germany. That's just how it works.

---

They're beholden to Russia because they rely on them for their natural gas. One of the big problems with the Nord Stream Pipeline. Great move by Russia to divide Europe.

Burnsey said:

---

How does Germany just sit this out? Aren't they part of NATO? Don't they have an obligation to other NATO countries? After the Russians take Ukraine in very short order, Poland will be the cross hairs and eventually they'll be next and later Germany. That's just how it works.

---

Germany outsourced its energy production to Russia. If they got involved, Russia would just cut off all the gas to Germany and everyone there freezes to death. So yeah, they're gonna sit it out.

That, and Germany's president is a card carrying communist.

Burnsey said:

---

How does Germany just sit this out? Aren't they part of NATO? Don't they have an obligation to other NATO countries? After the Russians take Ukraine in very short order, Poland will be the cross hairs and eventually they'll be next and later Germany. That's just how it works.

---

1) We'll circle back.
2) Yes they are part of NATO.
3) They do, Ukraine is not a member member.

Back to 1) Germany's energy policy and some other portions of their larger EU policy are the driving factors inside Germany. The other major contributing factor is that their military is in a shambles. At one point in the last decade they didn't have even a single fully operational fighter wing. In Germany. They have some very effective individual soldiers and officers but the political will to field a credible effective military even as a small deterrent is essentially nil. And everyone on the continent knows it.

So without Russian oil/gas Germany is straight screwed in the winter. It would takes months at a minimum to spin back up their nuclear and older gas/coal energy facilities and find alternative (as in new not solar/wind) fuel suppliers. It's still winter. Temperatures in Germany will be in the 30's and low 40's through February. Losing their heating would be a massive disaster for them. Yes the Ukraine losing all the territory up to the Dnieper would be a disaster for the Ukrainians but they still have Poland in between them and the Russians. They probably feel they can sit this one out and don't want to piss off the Russians too much. Conversely the Russians will be all too happy to keep the heat on in Germany (or cut it off and blame the Ukrainians) to help divide NATO. Germany's main interest is in maintaining their security as they see it inside Germany, keep the lights on and continue to be the gorilla in the room in the EU. Neither Berlin nor Brussels want anything to do with anything in the Ukraine or Moldova.

Now actual NATO members and EU members, that could be different. If the Russians do something weird out of Kaliningrad... maybe different. And the Russians have made noises about rolling things back to pre-1997 which isn't happening. One of the reasons why I think they try and push up to the Dnieper and possibly try and encircle Kyiv from the north out of Belarus. I'm not sure what their ultimate end game is, possibly absorb the Donetsk and Luhansk regions in the East and put a puppet regime in place but this is a bloody mess and the Germans aren't playing the long game.

AG 2000' said:

---

Kenneth_2003 said:

---

RoadkillBBQ said:

---

Whirligigs said:

---

Biden is incapable of doing anything. It is appalling how he has not been removed from office by now. Harris isn't going to be any good but at least she is coherent in the mind.

---

He hasn't been removed because his handlers don't want him removed.
He isn't running this country.

---

Agreed. Biden is a figurehead and nothing more. It's damn dangerous because we don't know who is truly in charge. Republicans are powerless to pull his plug.

So...
Thing is Kamala is equally or even more dangerous. While we would know who is in charge with her at the helm, she's beyond incompetent. She's universally disliked by everyone, and carries less respect globally than Biden. I don't think anyone wants her in charge.

If things get bad enough to truly necessitate direct US involvement, I don't think there is a good solution. No mean tweets have really left this country in a BAD place.

---

We know who is in charge. Obama.

---

He wasn't even in charge when he was president. Valerie was/is.

nortex97 said:

---

AG 2000' said:

---

Kenneth_2003 said:

---

RoadkillBBQ said:

---

Whirligigs said:

---

Biden is incapable of doing anything. It is appalling how he has not been removed from office by now. Harris isn't going to be any good but at least she is coherent in the mind.

---

He hasn't been removed because his handlers don't want him removed.
He isn't running this country.

---

Agreed. Biden is a figurehead and nothing more. It's damn dangerous because we don't know who is truly in charge. Republicans are powerless to pull his plug.

So...
Thing is Kamala is equally or even more dangerous. While we would know who is in charge with her at the helm, she's beyond incompetent. She's universally disliked by everyone, and carries less respect globally than Biden. I don't think anyone wants her in charge.

If things get bad enough to truly necessitate direct US involvement, I don't think there is a good solution. No mean tweets have really left this country in a BAD place.

---

We know who is in charge. Obama.

---

He wasn't even in charge when he was president. Valerie was/is.

---

Oh, I agree. There were puppetmasters when O was in office. She's one of them, but they all take their orders from someone else.

The other thing to note is that the EU told Germany not to pursue Norstream 2 and they did it anyway.

There is no reason for Germany to obey any NATO obligations when they defied their own "federal" union already.

aezmvp said:

---

Burnsey said:

---

How does Germany just sit this out? Aren't they part of NATO? Don't they have an obligation to other NATO countries? After the Russians take Ukraine in very short order, Poland will be the cross hairs and eventually they'll be next and later Germany. That's just how it works.

---

1) We'll circle back.
2) Yes they are part of NATO.
3) They do, Ukraine is not a member member.

Back to 1) Germany's energy policy and some other portions of their larger EU policy are the driving factors inside Germany. The other major contributing factor is that their military is in a shambles. At one point in the last decade they didn't have even a single fully operational fighter wing. In Germany. They have some very effective individual soldiers and officers but the political will to field a credible effective military even as a small deterrent is essentially nil. And everyone on the continent knows it.

So without Russian oil/gas Germany is straight screwed in the winter. It would takes months at a minimum to spin back up their nuclear and older gas/coal energy facilities and find alternative (as in new not solar/wind) fuel suppliers. It's still winter. Temperatures in Germany will be in the 30's and low 40's through February. Losing their heating would be a massive disaster for them. Yes the Ukraine losing all the territory up to the Dnieper would be a disaster for the Ukrainians but they still have Poland in between them and the Russians. They probably feel they can sit this one out and don't want to piss off the Russians too much. Conversely the Russians will be all too happy to keep the heat on in Germany (or cut it off and blame the Ukrainians) to help divide NATO. Germany's main interest is in maintaining their security as they see it inside Germany, keep the lights on and continue to be the gorilla in the room in the EU. Neither Berlin nor Brussels want anything to do with anything in the Ukraine or Moldova.

Now actual NATO members and EU members, that could be different. If the Russians do something weird out of Kaliningrad... maybe different. And the Russians have made noises about rolling things back to pre-1997 which isn't happening. One of the reasons why I think they try and push up to the Dnieper and possibly try and encircle Kyiv from the north out of Belarus. I'm not sure what their ultimate end game is, possibly absorb the Donetsk and Luhansk regions in the East and put a puppet regime in place but this is a bloody mess and the Germans aren't playing the long game.

---

Does NATO have specific commitments from each member on what they will contribute in a crisis or can Germany just provide some blankets and MREs and call it a day? I fail to see how it matters really. NATO does have specific commitments from member countries on funding NATO and Germany has not met it's commitments. What is NATO going to do, invade Germany and force them to fight? Kicking them out of NATO doesn't solve anything. Russia has Germany and probably several other NATO members right where they want them. What if Putin's goal is to wreck NATO and even the EU? Pretty good timing on his part if this is the goal. I doubt territorial gain is his only objective.

"Denmark will sail a frigate to the Baltic Sea and send four F-16 fighter jets to Lithuania. Spain is also sending ships to join NATO naval forces in the region and is considering sending fighter jets to Bulgaria, the statement read. France said it is willing to send troops to Romania, and the Netherlands also said it will send two F-35 fighter aircraft to Bulgaria in April."

This is the strong response from NATO. Netherlands will send two fighter jets in APRIL. Damn Putin must be shaking in his boots.

April? Kind of late.

Gen. Jack Keen made a good point this morning on Fox news. Putin won't do anything until after the Beijing Olympics as not to distract from his commie pinko buddy XI's "big show". But now the Ukraine ground is frozen and will begin to thaw in March so he has a short window to move his heavy armor over land. I've watched the documentaries of Hitler doing that very same thing on his way to Moscow, then during the thaw his army got totally bogged down and was almost destroyed by Stalin..

Another problem is our senile and insane president is now threatening to send troops to fight a land war in Eurasia. Good god.

This will not be a NATO led campaign since there are several members against helping Ukraine and it is not only Germany. Yes there will be NATO members helping Ukraine but it will not be a NATO led campaign. Germany is in a tough spot, if it helps Germany it technically can get kicked out of NATO but look at what Turkey has done the past few years and they are still in NATO.

Right now NATO is good at taking the USA's money and that is about it.

rsemingson said:

---

But now the Ukraine ground is frozen and will begin to thaw in March so he has a short window to move his heavy armor over land. I've watched the documentaries of Hitler doing that very same thing on his way to Moscow, then during the thaw his army got totally bogged down and was almost destroyed by Stalin..

---

Armor has made a few improvements since 1941 and the number of paved roads in the region has skyrocketed. Wet terrain is still a big consideration but not nearly so. Then add in helicopters and advancements in fixed wing aviation.

chickencoupe16 said:

---

rsemingson said:

---

But now the Ukraine ground is frozen and will begin to thaw in March so he has a short window to move his heavy armor over land. I've watched the documentaries of Hitler doing that very same thing on his way to Moscow, then during the thaw his army got totally bogged down and was almost destroyed by Stalin..

---

Armor has made a few improvements since 1941 and the number of paved roads in the region has skyrocketed. Wet terrain is still a big consideration but not nearly so. Then add in helicopters and advancements in fixed wing aviation.

---

Russians also know how to maneuver on snow / wet terrain…. This wasn't the case for Hitler / Napoleon

Edit to add: agree with above posters Putin is stalling due to Winter Olympics and posturing to see what political leverage he can further attain before he goes into Ukraine

chickencoupe16 said:

---

rsemingson said:

---

But now the Ukraine ground is frozen and will begin to thaw in March so he has a short window to move his heavy armor over land. I've watched the documentaries of Hitler doing that very same thing on his way to Moscow, then during the thaw his army got totally bogged down and was almost destroyed by Stalin..

---

Armor has made a few improvements since 1941 and the number of paved roads in the region has skyrocketed. Wet terrain is still a big consideration but not nearly so. Then add in helicopters and advancements in fixed wing aviation.

---

Damn, I was kind of wanting to see Putin standing on a stump directing tank traffic at a muddy crossroads.

YouBet said:

---

chickencoupe16 said:

---

rsemingson said:

---

But now the Ukraine ground is frozen and will begin to thaw in March so he has a short window to move his heavy armor over land. I've watched the documentaries of Hitler doing that very same thing on his way to Moscow, then during the thaw his army got totally bogged down and was almost destroyed by Stalin..

---

Armor has made a few improvements since 1941 and the number of paved roads in the region has skyrocketed. Wet terrain is still a big consideration but not nearly so. Then add in helicopters and advancements in fixed wing aviation.

---

Damn, I was kind of wanting to see Putin standing on a stump directing tank traffic at a muddy crossroads.

---

You might still. What a PR masterpiece. It would earn my vote.

🔥Many Ukrainians—including the president's office—are unhappy with US order for diplomats' families to leave.

“Quite frankly these Americans are safer in Kyiv than they are in LA...or any other crime-ridden city in the US.” — a source close to Zelensky. https://t.co/SeCILKKsYE

— Christopher Miller (@ChristopherJM) January 24, 2022

will25u said:

---

🔥Many Ukrainians—including the president's office—are unhappy with US order for diplomats' families to leave.

“Quite frankly these Americans are safer in Kyiv than they are in LA...or any other crime-ridden city in the US.” — a source close to Zelensky. https://t.co/SeCILKKsYE

— Christopher Miller (@ChristopherJM) January 24, 2022

---

And the first shots of the war are fired!

Vladimir Putin doesn’t want me to be President. He doesn’t want me to be our nominee. If you’re wondering why — it’s because I’m the only person in this field who’s ever gone toe-to-toe with him.

— Joe Biden (@JoeBiden) February 21, 2020

Good one Joe