What was the crowd management plan that the city/county agreed to with the promoter?

Why did the promoter and their security team allow the plan to fail all during the day without remedy? This is an aside but they had a bag check and metal detector that were breached by 100's if not a 1,000 people at the VIP entrance. This is primarily to stop weapons from entering. At this point, didn't they need to clear the event and start over (or in a worse case cancel) to assure the safety from their being a mass shooting or a performer being shot?

When did they know the plan the promoter and city/county had agreed upon to get a permit had failed and the safety of crowd was no longer assured? Why didn't they act immediately upon that determination?

Why didn't they enact the procedures they had agreed to as part of the permitting for such a contingency when they knew they had a "mass casualty event".

I know the promoter is there running the event. Is the county/city there as well monitoring along with the promoter?

I still think Kylie Jenner's soulless eyes creep me out more.

I haven't seen any evidence that anyone who died or was injured during the performance were participants to a "riot" and instead were just caught up in the crowd surge. (I'm not talking about the crowd rush past security earlier in the day). I can't stand rap and would never attend a hip hop festival but the evidence this was poorly planned and managed seems to be there and the lawsuits are likely with merit.

this whole situation could've been avoided.

1. needed more security at the gate from the get go. pretty easy to see problems would occur when they are packed at the gate elbows to *******s and they are all kids already acting uncivilized before concert began.

2. It is NRG, concert promotor, security's responsibility and job to pay attention to surroundings and notice when crowd is getting out of hand and becomes a danger. Pretty easy to have someone connected with the rapper walk out and tell him to stop and address the crowd. I guarantee had he done that and say he isn't starting again until everyone steps back, calms down etc it would've bought security time to send more people in to help with crowd control.

3. The video of Scott on the lift rapping witnessing the mayhem, watching bodies being lifted out is damning. Not surprising he continued on and didn't stop. From my limited research the past two days investigating who he is (never heard of him before this) it is safe to say he has to try hard to uphold a hard ass gangster image. Appears to be quite the nerdy drama kid in high school.


Gunna be some big payouts for the victims families. Well deserved IMO.

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What was the crowd management plan that the city/county agreed to with the promoter?

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Yes.
Apparently there was like a million square feet of concert crowd space for 50,000 people.

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Why did the promoter and their security team allow the plan to fail all during the day without remedy?

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Great question.

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At this point, didn't they need to clear the event and start over (or in a worse case cancel) to assure the safety from their being a mass shooting or a performer being shot?

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Excellent point!!!
You would think so.
Those images were really foreboding for what was to come.

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Why didn't they act immediately upon that determination?

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Fear of riot was what MB had on his show.

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Why didn't they enact the procedures they had agreed to as part of the permitting for such a contingency when they knew they had a "mass casualty event".

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Apparently Harris County did not have HFD, instead opting for private medics.

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I know the promoter is there running the event. Is the county/city there as well monitoring along with the promoter?

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Another excellent point.
You would think Commandante Hidalgo would be into running the lies of these concert goers as much as she wanted to for private businesses in 2020.

Great post Gap!

How would you describe your experiences there?

LSCSN said:

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So the Houston Marathon gets canned but this event gets approved? Alright!

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Good point - how did Judge Dora ever approve this, given her insane overreach? No NRA convention, but pack thousands in so tight people get crushed for some ****ing ghetto culture and thats okay? Stupid hypocritical *****.

Gap said:

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This is an aside but they had a bag check and metal detector that were breached by 100's if not a 1,000 people at the VIP entrance. This is primarily to stop weapons from entering.

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I went to a reunion tour concert of a famous '70s duo and the venue (Arena Theater) had burly security guards literally frisking every single person at the entrance, all of whom were 50+. They even patted down people who needed walkers to get in.

Absolutely bizarre. Granny ain't packin' heat and she sure ain't rushing the stage.

The good news is that the tight security prevented a riot.

Gap said:

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Why did the promoter and their security team allow the plan to fail all during the day without remedy? This is an aside but they had a bag check and metal detector that were breached by 100's if not a 1,000 people at the VIP entrance. This is primarily to stop weapons from entering. At this point, didn't they need to clear the event and start over (or in a worse case cancel) to assure the safety from their being a mass shooting or a performer being shot?

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They may have been genuinely concerned that these same lawless hooligans would riot, and thus decided that they would rather it just be insanely overcrowded and hope for the best?

When dealing with tens of thousands of lawless inner city "youths", there aren't really any easy solutions other than just don't have huge concerts that they are likely to descend upon en masse.

If they were to find some illegals who died, the Feds would hand them the city of Houston

Ok... Not my type of music. Never heard of this guy till Saturday morning. So humor me a question.

How much does this guy tour? Why were all /so many of the deceased from out of town? From what I saw on the local news last night, I don't think a single one was from the greater Houston area.

Buck Turgidson said:

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LSCSN said:

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So the Houston Marathon gets canned but this event gets approved? Alright!

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Good point - how did Judge Dora ever approve this, given her insane overreach? No NRA convention, but pack thousands in so tight people get crushed for some ****ing ghetto culture and thats okay? Stupid hypocritical *****.

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White = Bad, Non-White = Good

Once people understand this, so much lunacy that we see today starts to make sense.

Glad you enjoyed Seals and Croft again.


Or was it Seely Dan?

Kenneth_2003 said:

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Ok... Not my type of music. Never heard of this guy till Saturday morning. So humor me a question.

How much does this guy tour? Why were all /so many of the deceased from out of town? From what I saw on the local news last night, I don't think a single one was from the greater Houston area.

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The 14 year old kid from Memorial HS was certainly a resident. I hadn't seen that the others were out of towners. By out of town, are we talking nearby places like Cleveland, TX, Killeen and San Antonio, or from out of state?

SB 43rd STREET OG said:

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Gap said:

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Why did the promoter and their security team allow the plan to fail all during the day without remedy? This is an aside but they had a bag check and metal detector that were breached by 100's if not a 1,000 people at the VIP entrance. This is primarily to stop weapons from entering. At this point, didn't they need to clear the event and start over (or in a worse case cancel) to assure the safety from their being a mass shooting or a performer being shot?

---

They may have been genuinely concerned that these same lawless hooligans would riot, and thus decided that they would rather it just be insanely overcrowded and hope for the best?

When dealing with tens of thousands of lawless inner city "youths", there aren't really any easy solutions other than just don't have huge concerts that they are likely to descend upon en masse.

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As you state it, imagine the plan that the city/county and promoter had at the end of the day:

"hope for the best"


And here is a Playboy Carti rap show in Los Angeles before it starts as far as security. Video is from TikTok and I don't know how to imbed.

https://www.tiktok.com/@andreas.carti/video/7027909156535356678?sender_device=pc&sender_web_id=6957164328575927814&is_from_webapp=v1&is_copy_url=0

Gap said:

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SB 43rd STREET OG said:

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Gap said:

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Why did the promoter and their security team allow the plan to fail all during the day without remedy? This is an aside but they had a bag check and metal detector that were breached by 100's if not a 1,000 people at the VIP entrance. This is primarily to stop weapons from entering. At this point, didn't they need to clear the event and start over (or in a worse case cancel) to assure the safety from their being a mass shooting or a performer being shot?

---

They may have been genuinely concerned that these same lawless hooligans would riot, and thus decided that they would rather it just be insanely overcrowded and hope for the best?

When dealing with tens of thousands of lawless inner city "youths", there aren't really any easy solutions other than just don't have huge concerts that they are likely to descend upon en masse.

---

As you state it, imagine the plan that the city/county and promoter had at the end of the day:

"hope for the best"


And here is a Playboy Carti rap show in Los Angeles before it starts as far as security. Video is from TikTok and I don't know how to imbed.

https://www.tiktok.com/@andreas.carti/video/7027909156535356678?sender_device=pc&sender_web_id=6957164328575927814&is_from_webapp=v1&is_copy_url=0

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Was this after thousands and thousands of people broke through barricades and hopped fences and flooded the premises? That changes things dramatically imo. At that point, how do you start over?

My gut instinct says to call it all off at that point. But you better have the national guard there. Or a MASSIVE police presence. And you better be ready to use force.

Would be very interested in seeing what % of attendees did not have tickets/passes. This thing was WAYYY overcrowded, obviously.

That Playboi Carti show looks like a HS talent show in comparison.

Were these people supposed to be in seats or standing??????????

SB 43rd STREET OG said:

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Kenneth_2003 said:

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Ok... Not my type of music. Never heard of this guy till Saturday morning. So humor me a question.

How much does this guy tour? Why were all /so many of the deceased from out of town? From what I saw on the local news last night, I don't think a single one was from the greater Houston area.

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The 14 year old kid from Memorial HS was certainly a resident. I hadn't seen that the others were out of towners. By out of town, are we talking nearby places like Cleveland, TX, Killeen and San Antonio, or from out of state?

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Exerpts below are from the following ABC article. Doesn't look like they had all of the names. I didn't include one that said Heights High School
https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/aspiring-border-agent-dancer-engineer-concert-dead-81025904

The dead ranged from 14 to 27 years old, according to Houston officials. As of Sunday, 13 people remained hospitalized.

Franco Patino, 21, was working toward a mechanical engineering technology degree at the University of Dayton,

Jacob "Jake" Jurinek, 20, was a junior at Southern Illinois University-Carbondale,

A funeral for Danish Baig is expected to be held on Sunday in Colleyville in the Dallas-Forth Worth area, (ok he could have lived in the Houston area, but be from DFW, and not really a lot of travel if he lived in DFW -- my commentary, not the article)

Axel Acosta, 21, was a computer science major at Western Washington University.

Rudy Pena, of Laredo, Texas, was a student at Laredo College and wanted to be Border Patrol agent (Laredo isn't too far away)

SB 43rd STREET OG said:

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Gap said:

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SB 43rd STREET OG said:

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Gap said:

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Why did the promoter and their security team allow the plan to fail all during the day without remedy? This is an aside but they had a bag check and metal detector that were breached by 100's if not a 1,000 people at the VIP entrance. This is primarily to stop weapons from entering. At this point, didn't they need to clear the event and start over (or in a worse case cancel) to assure the safety from their being a mass shooting or a performer being shot?

---

They may have been genuinely concerned that these same lawless hooligans would riot, and thus decided that they would rather it just be insanely overcrowded and hope for the best?

When dealing with tens of thousands of lawless inner city "youths", there aren't really any easy solutions other than just don't have huge concerts that they are likely to descend upon en masse.

---

As you state it, imagine the plan that the city/county and promoter had at the end of the day:

"hope for the best"


And here is a Playboy Carti rap show in Los Angeles before it starts as far as security. Video is from TikTok and I don't know how to imbed.

https://www.tiktok.com/@andreas.carti/video/7027909156535356678?sender_device=pc&sender_web_id=6957164328575927814&is_from_webapp=v1&is_copy_url=0

---

Was this after thousands and thousands of people broke through barricades and hopped fences and flooded the premises? That changes things dramatically imo. At that point, how do you start over?

My gut instinct says to call it all off at that point. But you better have the national guard there. Or a MASSIVE police presence. And you better be ready to use force.

Would be very interested in seeing what % of attendees did not have tickets/passes. This thing was WAYYY overcrowded, obviously.

That Playboi Carti show looks like a HS talent show in comparison.

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You announce you are clearing the venue and the show will not go on until people re-enter after going through security. If that doesn't occur, you don't have a show and it gets cancelled. That is what I would expect at any such event.

If the set and Astroworld get torn up because people won't comply with security and law enforcement tasked with their safety, you arrest who you can.

Worst case, you have some property damage and arrests, but no one dies much less 8 people.

Otherwise, there is no need to have a city/county involved in the permitting process for such events. You just announce the event, save people planning and paperwork, and "hope for the best". Also, concert-goers know it is more dangerous than they would have otherwise assumed and can make decisions about attending or staying knowing there is no plan to keep them safe.

Gap said:

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SB 43rd STREET OG said:

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Gap said:

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SB 43rd STREET OG said:

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Gap said:

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Why did the promoter and their security team allow the plan to fail all during the day without remedy? This is an aside but they had a bag check and metal detector that were breached by 100's if not a 1,000 people at the VIP entrance. This is primarily to stop weapons from entering. At this point, didn't they need to clear the event and start over (or in a worse case cancel) to assure the safety from their being a mass shooting or a performer being shot?

---

They may have been genuinely concerned that these same lawless hooligans would riot, and thus decided that they would rather it just be insanely overcrowded and hope for the best?

When dealing with tens of thousands of lawless inner city "youths", there aren't really any easy solutions other than just don't have huge concerts that they are likely to descend upon en masse.

---

As you state it, imagine the plan that the city/county and promoter had at the end of the day:

"hope for the best"


And here is a Playboy Carti rap show in Los Angeles before it starts as far as security. Video is from TikTok and I don't know how to imbed.

https://www.tiktok.com/@andreas.carti/video/7027909156535356678?sender_device=pc&sender_web_id=6957164328575927814&is_from_webapp=v1&is_copy_url=0

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Was this after thousands and thousands of people broke through barricades and hopped fences and flooded the premises? That changes things dramatically imo. At that point, how do you start over?

My gut instinct says to call it all off at that point. But you better have the national guard there. Or a MASSIVE police presence. And you better be ready to use force.

Would be very interested in seeing what % of attendees did not have tickets/passes. This thing was WAYYY overcrowded, obviously.

That Playboi Carti show looks like a HS talent show in comparison.

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You announce you are clearing the venue and the show will not go on until people re-enter after going through security. If that doesn't occur, you don't have a show and it gets cancelled. That is what I would expect at any such event.

If the set and Astroworld get torn up because people won't comply with security and law enforcement tasked with their safety, you arrest who you can.

Worst case, you have some property damage and arrests, but no one dies much less 8 people.

Otherwise, there is no need to have a city/county involved in the permitting process for such events. You just announce the event, save people planning and paperwork, and "hope for the best". Also, concert-goers know it is more dangerous than they would have otherwise assumed and can make decisions about attending or staying knowing there is no plan to keep them safe.

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I guess after the violent fiery summer of 2020, I have a much more jaded view of the types of people that would cause trouble over cancelling a concert. We can hypothesize all day, but I can tell you I would HATE to be a cop or hired security in that type of insanely large and unruly crowd if things go sideways. I don't think property damage is the big concern here. But agree to disagree.

TxTarpon said:

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How would you describe your experiences there?

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Travis Scott's concerts are definitely some of the loudest I have worked. There was an excessive amount of pyro and strobe lights throughout the shows. I believe every song ended with a "bang" (gunshot). The floor was a large mosh pit, but I don't recall anything crazy.

Concert organizers know the crowd that will be showing up for the show and make sure the law enforcement presence is sufficient.

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You announce you are clearing the venue and the show will not go on until people re-enter after going through security. If that doesn't occur, you don't have a show and it gets cancelled. That is what I would expect at any such event.

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this is close to exactly what the lawyers will contend should have been done.

and what response does livenation/scott etc. really have to that? "there were too many people to do that" ?

well that proves you had too many people there.

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Beethoven and Bach riots OTOH, are rare.

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Stravinsky laughs at the whole lot of 'em

TxTarpon said:

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Glad you enjoyed Seals and Croft again.


Or was it Seely Dan?

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Close. It was these guys:

The venue holds like 200k, but there were only 55k in attendance

Not seeing anything against the county standing

AggieKatie2 said:

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The venue holds like 200k, but there were only 55k in attendance

Not seeing anything against the county standing

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The venue was a parking lot. They could have safely put 500,000 people in a parking lot if they had executed their plan. The issue has nothing to do with total capacity of the parking lot as opposed to what they ended up allowing in each pen.

I almost selected them over Seals and Croft!

Hope you had a great time!

Anyone hear this before?

CNN, PMSNBC are giving Travis Scott a pass.

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In 2015, Scott was arrested at the Lollapalooza music festival in Chicago and charged with disorderly conduct after encouraging attendees to climb over security barricades and storm the stage. He had been onstage for less than five minutes. In 2017, Scott was again arrested and charged in Arkansas for the same thing.
Link

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He is on stage telling people to do dangerous stuff and the media does not call his a$$ out for it.
CNN and PMSNBC have been saying Trump did this, he didn't, on January 6 and want him to be arrested.
No calls for Travis Scott to be arrested again.

Yep
Media bias again.

This isn't a race thing, deaths have happened at rock concerts before. It's an age thing.

You don't see this happening at country and Christian music festivals.

I keep seeing the word 'concert' used here. I thought this fool was a rapper.

Festival? lol

Because Jesus loves them.

Travis Scott's baby momma is a billionaire, he'll be just fine, best lawyers money can buy will show when you buy a ticket to these types of events you assume your own liability.

TxTarpon said:

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Anyone hear this before?

CNN, PMSNBC are giving Travis Scott a pass.

Quote:

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In 2015, Scott was arrested at the Lollapalooza music festival in Chicago and charged with disorderly conduct after encouraging attendees to climb over security barricades and storm the stage. He had been onstage for less than five minutes. In 2017, Scott was again arrested and charged in Arkansas for the same thing.
Link

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He is on stage telling people to do dangerous stuff and the media does not call his a$$ out for it.
CNN and PMSNBC have been saying Trump did this, he didn't, on January 6 and want him to be arrested.
No calls for Travis Scott to be arrested again.

Yep
Media bias again.

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Bro....you're the same guy that said the people attending the concert were at fault for choosing to go to the concert.

sicandtiredTXN said:

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Travis Scott's baby momma is a billionaire, he'll be just fine, best lawyers money can buy will show when you buy a ticket to these types of events you assume your own liability.

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livenation, scott, insurers etc. etc. are going pay millions and millions of dollars showing thats not the case