Might I ask, is Crypto just the early adaptation of a global economy? I have been living under a rock.
Am I incorrect?

Not sure that it really has anything to do with a global economy. USD works just fine in a global economy.

It's major benefit is that it isn't as susceptible to manipulation by the government. The fed can't flip a switch and increases the creation rate of bitcoin whenever they'd like.

Unicorn farts

You really need to live up to your username and do some research. Fiat is unicorn fart, the stock market is hyperactive unicorn farts. For the love of God do some research.

Buford T. Justice said:

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Might I ask, is Crypto just the early adaptation of a global economy? I have been living under a rock.
Am I incorrect?

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I don't trade cryptos because I don't really know enough about it, but people are making a lot of money trading it. However, I think it carries significant risks because it's vulnerable to government restrictions because they don't have control of it. China recently prohibited the use of bitcoin. The US Fed will be launching their own digital dollar shortly and then I'd expect the EU to do the same. If the US and EU follow China's lead and prohibits crypto transactions, then IMO your investment could become worthless overnight. I'm sure people more familiar with crypto than me will reply and provide better guidance.

How do you stop something that can be transacted peer to peer?

End of the dollar and our way of life?

MR Gadsden said:

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How do you stop something that can be transacted peer to peer?

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Like I said, I'm not well versed with crypto but right now, can you convert them into currency (Dollar, Euro)? If so, governments can arbitrarily eliminate that option and if they do, then crypto really has no value IMO. I hope I'm wrong, because if I'm right, then a lot of regular people are going to get destroyed.

MR Gadsden said:

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How do you stop something that can be transacted peer to peer?

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you can if you control the internet and cryptography computing. but why would anyone want to stop transactions of worthless bits and bytes?

At this point it has too much institutional buy in. They (US government) won't ban it because all the big money donors have started to get into it. They will try and tax it and regulate it and what they will do is shoot themselves in the foot. In 5-7 years Blockchain technology will be part of our daily lives like the internet is right now.

In March of 2020 I got back into Bitcoin and the crypto world. I understood that Bitcoin had at least a store of value type proposition going for it but I wanted to know what was the reason for the 9k other coins out there. I wanted to find just a couple different projects that actually had tangible products so I could get an understanding and why there were so many different coins, tokens and even different blockchains. I figured if I found just a few that I could understand and see some sort of practical application for I would buy those and see what happened.

What I found was that there are hundreds of not thousands of working products out there that are going to change our lives significantly over the next few years. Defi, is one example that we are already seeing play out. Why keep your Fiat money in a savings account and earn only .25% on your balance when you can convert to a stable coin like USDC and earn 9-12%? Why would a Gen-X or younger not look into something like that? Hell I have elders at my church asking me about how to invest in BTC and earn interest.

Things like OriginTrail are changing how supply chain works around the world. VChain is another.

Even Kraken is an actual bank now in WY. If you don't see how this will affect your lives and very very soon you need to wake up.

Sorry for the rant.

Let me leave you with this one article as follow up.

https://www.cbinsights.com/research/industries-disrupted-blockchain/

Edited because my rant was on my phone and autocorrect sucks.

Also to say Prog that was not all directed at you.

Crypto is the future- wheelskjm circa 2014

Bitcoin, not crypto, is the future - administrative errors. Current

MR Gadsden said:

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You really need to live up to your username and do some research. Fiat is unicorn fart, the stock market is hyperactive unicorn farts. For the love of God do some research.

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He is.

This is why science, isn't.

#fiatresearch


I highly encourage the OP and anyone listening to dive unto the rabbit hole. Read "The bitcoin standard", cypherpunk manifesto, pgp history, "21 rules"

listen to andreas antonopolous on YouTube or buy one of his 4/5 books....

Gonna be a doozy this one.

MR Gadsden said:

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At this point it has too much institutional buy in. They (US government) won't ban it because all the big money donors have started to get into it. They will try and tax it and regulate it and what they will do is shoot themselves in the foot. In 5-7 years Blockchain technology will be part of our daily lives like the internet is right now.

In March of 2020 I got back into Bitcoin and the crypto world. I understood that Bitcoin had at least a store of value type proposition going for it but I wanted to know what was the reason for the 9k other coins out there. I wanted to find just a couple different projects that actually had tangible products so I could get an understanding and why there were so many different coins, tokens and even different blockchains. I figured if I found just a few that I could understand and see some sort of practical application for I would buy those and see what happened.

What I found was that there are hundreds of not thousands of working products out there that are going to change our lives significantly over the next few years. Defi, is one example that we are already seeing play out. Why keep your Fiat money in a savings account and earn only .25% on your balance when you can convert to a stable coin like USDC and earn 9-12%? Why would a Gen-X or younger not look into something like that? Hell I have elders at my church asking me about how to invest in BTC and earn interest.

Things like OriginTrail are changing how supply chain works around the world. VChain is another.

Even Kraken is an actual bank now in WY. If you don't see how this will affect your lives and very very soon you need to wake up.

Sorry for the rant.

Let me leave you with this one article as follow up.

https://www.cbinsights.com/research/industries-disrupted-blockchain/

Edited because my rant was on my phone and autocorrect sucks.

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Excellent post and you are WAY more familiar than I am in cryptos.

I also wasn't really directly my rant at you there at the end. Sorry if I came off harsh.

If you are interested there are some really good folks out there you can follow to learn more about both Bitcoin and blockchain.

MR Gadsden said:

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I also wasn't really directly my rant at you there at the end. Sorry if I came off harsh.

If you are interested there are some really good folks out there you can follow to learn more about both Bitcoin and blockchain.

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No worries, your post was passionate because you're very familiar with crypto, not angry. Please let me know where I can learn more. My realm is trading stocks because of decades of experience but you're never too old to learn something different. I'm currently dealing with the likely death of a family member, but I'll check them out when life is less chaotic.

Sorry to hear about your loss of a family member, this all can wait.

When you do have time, given your background in stocks, someone you may enjoy listening to is Raoul Pal (former Goldman Sachs hedge fund manager) he lays out some very solid arguments for Bitcoin and other coins like Eth as sound investments.

Thank you

MR Gadsden said:

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At this point it has too much institutional buy in. They (US government) won't ban it because all the big money donors have started to get into it. They will try and tax it and regulate it and what they will do is shoot themselves in the foot. In 5-7 years Blockchain technology will be part of our daily lives like the internet is right now.

In March of 2020 I got back into Bitcoin and the crypto world. I understood that Bitcoin had at least a store of value type proposition going for it but I wanted to know what was the reason for the 9k other coins out there. I wanted to find just a couple different projects that actually had tangible products so I could get an understanding and why there were so many different coins, tokens and even different blockchains. I figured if I found just a few that I could understand and see some sort of practical application for I would buy those and see what happened.

What I found was that there are hundreds of not thousands of working products out there that are going to change our lives significantly over the next few years. Defi, is one example that we are already seeing play out. Why keep your Fiat money in a savings account and earn only .25% on your balance when you can convert to a stable coin like USDC and earn 9-12%? Why would a Gen-X or younger not look into something like that? Hell I have elders at my church asking me about how to invest in BTC and earn interest.

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First, the "institutional buy in" can merely be the institutions seeing an opportunity for above average, short term returns.

The second bolded area if not rationale, misleading and poor advice. Returns are based on risk calculation by the investor providing the funds. The reason you keep $200k in a money market account is that you want that money to be low risk on exposure and in turn you accept a lower return. If you are being paid an above average return of 9%-12% on banked money, that is based on a much increased level of risk.

This is the basic concept of risk v reward. Reward is NOT increased via same or less risk. The world just doesn't turn that way, Again, very poor advice to tell someone the good make a 36x or 48x better return by putting money into BTC vs traditional banking.

Its 2021 and most individuals still maintain checking accounts and write physical checks. You move into the business world and 99% of companies still process physical checks at least to some extent.

Current state of crypto assets:

Bitcoin is currently treated as a store of value, and will likely remain so. It will not be a good replacement for day to day transactions in its current state because the transaction throughput is too low, and the time to confirm transactions is too long. Most importantly, it is a "proof of work" blockchain, and other methods have developed since then that are more efficient.

There are thousands of alt-coins (any coin other than bitcoin). They offer various functionalities and unlock a lot of new possibilities. One that is highly touted is "smart contracts". In short, these are contracts built into the blockchain that execute automatically when certain conditions are met.

There are other projects that seek to replace old and bulky systems, XRP is one example. It seeks to replace the SWIFT network, such that a person can move their dollars in a US bank to Euros in a Swiss bank, and do so nearly realtime for pennies instead of over a few days for 5%.

There are other projects that are building social networks on the blockchain. Odysee is a youtube like site that is built on the LBRY protocol. Videos are stored on the blockchain, which makes it a very decentralized platform. There are a few others like this, THETA is another one. There are social networks being built on the blockchain similar to facebook. The advantage these have over the current models is that they are decentralized.

We're really seeing a lot of ideas on how to use this new technology start to bubble up. Some may work, some may not, but on the whole, they will end up offering some advantages over current systems.

Think of it today like the internet in the mid-late 90s, and that's where blockchain technology is today. Think of bitcoin like ARPAnet is the early 80s, the first implementation by which the groundwork was laid, but more useful things came later, like HTTP, HTML, and the world wide web in 1991.

One nice advantage being built into a lot of these is governance. The rules for some of these blockchains are voted on by the token holders.

ETA- I forgot to mention. There are also a lot of alt-coins that are money grabs, worthless projects, or exist only as a meme.

If I wanted to acquire a little BTC, do they do that on brokerage firms or do you need to get a digital wallet and do it through some platform on the interweb? Sorry, I'm old.

Third Son said:

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If I wanted to acquire a little BTC, do they do that on brokerage firms or do you need to get a digital wallet and do it through some platform on the interweb? Sorry, I'm old.

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There are a lot of exchanges to do this. Coinbase is a well-established one and is good for beginners. Understand that regulations require KYC (know your customer), so you need to provide real information including a drivers license, just like you would to open a bank account or an account with an brokerage firm. Despite crypto having a reputation for being anonymous, reality is the exact opposite.

On Coinbase, they have ways to get free coins as well. You can probably get about $60 worth of stuff for free right now just by doing the learning promotions. Just remember that right now, under the extremely ambiguous and undefined regulatory environment, taxes will be a pain. This includes trading one coin for another, so just keep this in mind. Government basically said "we need to get taxes from this, but we don't know how to yet, so here's a blanket rule that creates horrific administrative overhead, and we'll figure it out later"

Critique:

kb2001 said:

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Current state of crypto assets:

Bitcoin is currently treated as a store of value, and will likely remain so. It will not be a good replacement for day to day transactions in its current state because the transaction throughput is too low, and the time to confirm transactions is too long. Most importantly, it is a "proof of work" blockchain, and other methods have developed since then that are more efficient. opinion removed.

There are thousands of alt-coins (any coin other than bitcoin). They offer various functionalities and unlock a lot of new possibilities. One that is highly touted is "smart contracts". In short, these are contracts built into the blockchain that execute automatically when certain conditions are met. altcoins, or by their best known vernacular, [u]shi*coins[/u], like to make claims about what bitcoin cannot do. Usually falsely, but widespreadedly falsely

There are other projects that seek to replace old and bulky systems, XRP is one example. It seeks to replace the SWIFT network, such that a person can move their dollars in a US bank to Euros in a Swiss bank, and do so nearly realtime for pennies instead of over a few days for 5%. xrp, a prime example of the term underlined above, is an attempt to carve a niche into a dead technology, bridging the marketing term blockchain with securities [doesn't pass Howie test] and who's original founder was the spawn of great things like "Mt Gox," "XRP" AND Stellar Lumens [the better xrp, if you must have "-killers."

There are other projects that are building social networks on the blockchain. Odysee is a youtube like site that is built on the LBRY protocol. Videos are stored on the blockchain, which makes it a very decentralized platform. There are a few others like this, THETA is another one. There are social networks being built on the blockchain similar to facebook. The advantage these have over the current models is that they are decentralized. I'm actually excited on the experimenting for some of these applications. Hopefully they end up useful.

We're really seeing a lot of ideas on how to use this new technology start to bubble up. Someexceptionally few may work, some nearly all may not and never will, but on the whole, they will end up offering some advantages over current systems.

Think of it today like the internet in the mid-late 90s, and that's where blockchain technology is today. Think of bitcoin like ARPAnet is the early 80s, the first implementation by which the groundwork was laid, but more useful things came later, like HTTP, HTML, and the world wide web in 1991. think of bitcoin as an ever evolving ever improving protocol, not as some stagnant dead language or communication coding. Nearly everything negative you assigned to bitcoin [because it sounds like you are a shi*coiner] is false or has been resolved through updates or layer 2 protocols like lightning network, RSK, Taproot, etc. You're either entirely disingenuous, lying, or ignorant. Which is it? You're usually a great poster on these topics and maybe you're trying to be 'non-biased' but it's clear in your presentation that there's a clear attempt to dissuade from focusing the core of their attention into bitcoin first and foremost. Yuck.

One nice advantage being built into a lot of these is governance. The rules for some of these blockchains are voted on by the token holders. governance tokens, I don't see how these won't become securities, and the longer they are around the worse I feel about them, as zero pan out thus far [u]besides marketing[/u]

ETA- I forgot to mention. There are also a lot of a Shi*-coins are money grabs, worthless projects, or exist only as marketing hoping to become a meme. this could've been the summation here.

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You're better than this.


To the newbie, I highly discourage exploring the shi*coin casino. Take a dedicated 48 hours total devoted to your bitcoin education. Read "The bitcoin standard" for a course on the history of money, bitcoin, and the innovations along the road. Great starter. Develop your conviction, don't get distracted by the devil [shi*coins] while you're standing in the desert full of fiat sand. Read the white paper, understand the Genesis Block "chancellor" quote and why it exists. Learn about cypherpunks and PGP and why censorship resistance is such an important feature unique to bitcoin and its decentralized architecture and users.

Everyone has their path leading them to bitcoin.

Welcome. Now get to work.

I have been researching crypto, and more specifically Bitcoin, for some time.

I personally think we're in a bubble right now, but the concept is real. Fiat currency was once the domain of nation states, but there's no reason it can't be privatized.

I think nation states are just now waking up to the danger crypto poses to their power. To me, the great unknown is what happens as they start to try to gain control.

RDCAG said:

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Yes and yes.

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Explain to me why Crypto is not a complicated Ponzi scheme.

It's poor advice to lose purchasing power year over year to inflation while the government prints your **** fiat money and destroys the middle class. Kraken has been granted a bank charter in WY so it must insure your funds the same way you money market bank does. I'm able to withdraw funds the same day I unstaked them. The world is changing but go ahead and keep your Fiat "safe"

And stocks are not?

doubledog said:

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RDCAG said:

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Yes and yes.

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Explain to me why Crypto is not a complicated Ponzi scheme.

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Explain to me what you know about the process and history of money creation, game theory, networks [internet/bittorrent], hardware/software, philosophy, cypherpunks, etc, and we can start there.

Only then will I know what you are missing to fill you in. If that's too time consuming, we'll we'll don't worry so much about it since you never cared whether your current system was a "bubble" or a "ponzi scheme" etc.

Wow, don't take it so personally. We largely agree about things. This is my opinion of Bitcoin, and despite these advancements you discussed, many of them are in fact not yet fully implemented (like Taproot and Lightning). I don't shi* on Bitcoin in any way shape or form. So, I stand by statement that in its current state, it is not a good choice for day to day transactions. Of course, anyone who is realistic about long term wealth gains from crypto should be holding primarily bitcoin, as I do, but to disregard other blockchains is just foolish. Keep in mind that Taproot and Lightning came about because of technology advancements made on other blockchains. I'm not trying to push focus away from Bitcoin, I'm just providing some information on just how massive the blockchain technology advancements are beyond simple financial transactions.

Regarding your comments on my "ETA", you missed the point. Some are actually trying to develop a platform, some are straight up scams looking to becoming a meme. Don't bundle them all in the same thread, you're better than that. DOGE =/= Ethereum no matter how much you want it to be.

I don't s**t on bitcoin at all, I'm just realistic and objective about it, and try to keep any personal biases out of my analysis. I agree that its an excellent technology, and isn't going anywhere, but I also acknowledge its shortcomings when compared to features that others are developing. Bitcoin is doing a pretty good job of absorbing some of the advancements into itself. I maintain that as long as it's treated as a store of value, it will not be a good choice for day to day transactions. Buy a car with Bitcoin? Sure. Pay your bills with it? Sure. Buy groceries with it? Not right now. The advancements needed are in progress and are not yet active for Bitcoin. Lightning especially will help with this, but it isn't available yet. Interestingly, it is a prime example of technology advancements made with other blockchains getting folded into Bitcoin (well, on top of Bitcoin's blockchain technically, effectively the same thing in this case).

I'll disregard the XRP hate. A lot of people hate XRP, and Jed McCaleb is the reason why, with very good reason. I'm in full agreement with McCaleb being a person to avoid. I stay far away from anything he's involved in, but he hasn't been involved with XRP for several years. I'm simply pointing out XRP and SWIFT as an example of another system that crypto is in a position to make massive improvements to. Is it perfect? Of course not. Is it good that we can start phasing out bulky, antiquated, expensive, tightly controlled systems in favor of new technologies? Absolutely. I'll also point out that your lack of knowledge on XRP's SEC lawsuit is something you should address if you want to hold such strong opinions on it.

I agree that newbie's should stay away from alt-coins not named Ethereum until they get more knowledgeable. There are so many, and it's very difficult to tell which ones have value long term and which ones will not be around next cycle.

You're trying to paint me as something I'm not, because I don't drop to me knees for Bitcoin's every move. There are 3 main things happening with blockchains and crypto.

1. New financial vehicles and ways of transacting
2. New means of fulfilling trustless transactions and execution of contracts
3. New ways of building web-based platforms that are more decentralized, moving to fully decentralized

Bitcoin is tackling number 1. There are other projects that are taking on 2 and 3, don't ignore them because you're focused only on the financial aspects. All blockchains can benefit from advancements made on other blockchains, Taproot and Lightning are examples of Bitcoin taking steps to improve itself based on advancements from other blockchains. The fact that you refer to alt-coins as sh*t-coins tells me you don't view the technologies objectively, you don't see what they can offer and are only focused on the negatives. There is so much more happening, don't miss the forest for the trees.

We're largely in agreement on these things. One of the more toxic things to arise in blockchain circles is the tribal effect that seems to spring up. A lot of people take sides when discussing various crypto assets, "Asset B must be garbage because it isn't Asset A, and anyone who holds Asset B must hate Asset A."

wbt5845 said:

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I have been researching crypto, and more specifically Bitcoin, for some time.

I personally think we're in a bubble right now, but the concept is real. Fiat currency was once the domain of nation states, but there's no reason it can't be privatized.

I think nation states are just now waking up to the danger crypto poses to their power. To me, the great unknown is what happens as they start to try to gain control.

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We're following the same market cycle that it's been following for over a decade. The thing to remember is that over time, the highs get higher and lows get higher. At the end of 2017, Bitcoin reached a new all-time high just barely under $20,000. It is unlikely Bitcoin will ever drop below that number again, unless it is murdered by regulation globally.

It looks like a bubble every 4 years, and will it drop again this cycle, but it always reaches higher, and never drops as far. So far at least, but anything could happen

Dumb question (olds here). Value wise...is $1,000 US = $1,000 bitcoin...or...will $1.00 US buy $1.00 bitcoin? If not, why swap??