Agthatbuilds said:

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There has to be a market for a dumb car.

Give me ac, radio and 4x4 and I'm gtg. Don't need a backup camera. Don't need a blind spot indicator, lane assist, auto mirrors. Don't need auto seats, seat heater, motor windows. Don't need to track mpgs, outside temperature, the direction I'm facing.

And so on. Give me the most mechanical truck that requires the least amount of cpu power.

I can't be the only one who'd prefer something like that.

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E P A

Engine management needs cpu to meet mpg and emissions standards

Agthatbuilds said:

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There has to be a market for a dumb car.

Give me ac, radio and 4x4 and I'm gtg. Don't need a backup camera. Don't need a blind spot indicator, lane assist, auto mirrors. Don't need auto seats, seat heater, motor windows. Don't need to track mpgs, outside temperature, the direction I'm facing.

And so on. Give me the most mechanical truck that requires the least amount of cpu power.

I can't be the only one who'd prefer something like that.

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You're looking for the truck version of the Cobra replicas that are given exemptions from modern safety and environmental standards. You wouldn't be allowed to go to market with something new that didn't have all of those computers in it but if you could convince them gatekeepers that's a 1970 F100 was a classic that needed to be reproduced you could possibly get them to allow it. Beyond that you're stuck.

HumpitPuryear said:

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Agthatbuilds said:

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There has to be a market for a dumb car.

Give me ac, radio and 4x4 and I'm gtg. Don't need a backup camera. Don't need a blind spot indicator, lane assist, auto mirrors. Don't need auto seats, seat heater, motor windows. Don't need to track mpgs, outside temperature, the direction I'm facing.

And so on. Give me the most mechanical truck that requires the least amount of cpu power.

I can't be the only one who'd prefer something like that.

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E P A

Engine management needs cpu to meet mpg and emissions standards

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I understand the govt has made it impossible to actually produce a basic truck.

That said, I sad the most mechanical truck with the least amount of cpu power needed. So, I'm not asking to turn back the clock to no cpus, just one that requires as little as possible.

I drive a basic f250 6.7 with vinyl seats and a rubber floor. I haul trailers around. The cpu is trash. The exhaust is trash. And a new one of the model I have is 50+ grand right now. That's absurd.

How much cost is associated with govt mandates?

Agthatbuilds said:

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There has to be a market for a dumb car.

Give me ac, radio and 4x4 and I'm gtg. Don't need a backup camera. Don't need a blind spot indicator, lane assist, auto mirrors. Don't need auto seats, seat heater, motor windows. Don't need to track mpgs, outside temperature, the direction I'm facing.

And so on. Give me the most mechanical truck that requires the least amount of cpu power.

I can't be the only one who'd prefer something like that.

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Big Brother says no, at least on the backup camera. Not sure about blind spot and other crap.

Pretty sure the switch to power windows becoming a universal standard was an economy of scale thing - so many of them had that option checked it became more cost effective to build them all that way than to deal with the few remaining with roller windows. I see that sort of thing in aircraft manufacturing when an oddball type comes down the line. Parts, instructions, and tooling are a little different and it can throw off the manufacturing techs a bit.

Anyway what you want is kind of like that odd variant I mentioned. Not enough orders and using small assemblies that are a little more unique increases the build cost enough so that enough people would spend a little more to get what they think is worth it. I was in the same boat you are when I was searching for a 4 door with a manual a couple of years ago. There aren't a lot of choices and I was getting ready to get a new Civic SI when I ended up with an '07 Acura TSX with 6MT from a relative.

You should check out the automotive board. 1ags bought a low trim or contractor grade truck and added what he wanted to it on his own and it came out pretty nice.

LOYAL AG said:

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Agthatbuilds said:

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There has to be a market for a dumb car.

Give me ac, radio and 4x4 and I'm gtg. Don't need a backup camera. Don't need a blind spot indicator, lane assist, auto mirrors. Don't need auto seats, seat heater, motor windows. Don't need to track mpgs, outside temperature, the direction I'm facing.

And so on. Give me the most mechanical truck that requires the least amount of cpu power.

I can't be the only one who'd prefer something like that.

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You're looking for the truck version of the Cobra replicas that are given exemptions from modern safety and environmental standards. You wouldn't be allowed to go to market with something new that didn't have all of those computers in it but if you could convince them gatekeepers that's a 1970 F100 was a classic that needed to be reproduced you could possibly get them to allow it. Beyond that you're stuck.

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I support this endeavor!

I know it's not realistic. Mostly the economy of scale like you mentioned.

It would have to be a stand alone company. The big guys wouldn't do because there's no money for them there.

I know you could sell some new trucks like I want but with a future of no gas stations, no gas engines, one can only dream

Agthatbuilds said:

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How much cost is associated with govt mandates?

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Airbags, MPG, emission standards, backup crap, tire pressure monitoring, inside trunk handle, electronic stability control, ...

Throw in costs to develop systems and tie all of this in during design and I'd say it's a pretty huge number.

In aero it's staggering. Probably a big part of why you see 1940s technology still in use in Cessna engines for example. Getting something new approved by the FAA just isn't cost effective.

My next new truck will be an old truck.

My next new work truck will probably be the lowest level of a 4x4 f250 diesel

Glad I just got a car for $6k under what it is worth, and still have the truck.

BAP Enthusiast said:

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Ag In Ok said:

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This is an economic hot war and the current administration is utterly confused and misguided.

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This isn't Economic war on china's part. Their economy is cratering just like ours. People have absolutely no idea that every country is perilously close to that razor's edge. The entire system is about to go off a cliff.

China is panicking just like we are because they have no fuel for their power plants, which means no power to their factories.

This is going to get very bad. The global supply chain going up in smoke will have ramifications not seen in the modern world. We have no comparable moment in history. The Great Depression does not compare because supply wasn't the problem.

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Why would you say that? There's no ****ing energy crisis. If they're shutting in production it is for some other reason - and the only one that makes sense given the players is a worldwide Leninist crackdown on the working Class is coming.

As an old truck owner I'd recommend adding electronic ignition and EFI for simplicity and reliability. Tuning cars up the old fashioned way just once isn't terrible, but after doing it for 21 years it's definitely something I'm sick of. Points and carbs need to be messed with more often than I'd like and they give Murphy's Law plenty of failure modes to go after when you least expect it.

I've have a 77 Volkswagen. Yeah, it can suck with the somewhat regular tinkering.


But, it doesn't cost me a couple grand to take it to the shop like my truck does

Yukon Cornelius said:

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Ag In Ok said:

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This is an economic hot war and the current administration is utterly confused and misguided.

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Lol imagine believing this is incompetence vs intentional.

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It's ENTIRELY intentional. They're doing what they told us they would do.

They're forcing us to move away from fossil fuels, economic impacts will be written off as "unavoidable covid casualties".

Klaus Schwab laid it all out for us in Davos.

Dr. Teeth said:

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Aggie95 said:

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I can see a way out of chip problem...make more here but that will take 3 to 5 years.
But....how do we fix the magnesium issue? If the natural resource supply is in China there's not an easy fix.

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Or how about make cars without the unnecessary computerized bull****?

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This!!! I took my nearly decade old baby in for work and was driving the loaner around. It basically had an iPad configured in the dash that I hated and was definitely more dangerous to fiddle with when driving than the old fashioned nobs. If they just made a model without all that crap, cars would be more affordable and not obsolete in less than 10 years.

LupinusTexensis said:

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Dr. Teeth said:

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Aggie95 said:

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I can see a way out of chip problem...make more here but that will take 3 to 5 years.
But....how do we fix the magnesium issue? If the natural resource supply is in China there's not an easy fix.

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Or how about make cars without the unnecessary computerized bull****?

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This!!! I took my nearly decade old baby in for work and was driving the loaner around. It basically had an iPad configured in the dash that I hated and was definitely more dangerous to fiddle with when driving than the old fashioned nobs. If they just made a model without all that crap, cars would be more affordable and not obsolete in less than 10 years.

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"It may be old but I prefer fiddling with my own knob."

China is shutting off power to meet some emissions goals (linked earlier)

This is the green new deal in action and it hasn't even been passed yet.

CCP Joe Veggie said:

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YouBet said:

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This kind of stuff cascades big time. There are going go to be wars soon.

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I don't think Biden and whoever controls him are going to war over this. His transportation sec has been home for 3 months cuddling with his husband while product sits in the pacific ocean.

It's like the border. It's intentional. It's wide open and they are transporting illegals all over the country.

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I was thinking elsewhere first. It's going to get rowdy in the Old World the longer this keeps going. You will start to see classic war for resources type of moves.

slyfox07 said:

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Yukon Cornelius said:

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Ag In Ok said:

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This is an economic hot war and the current administration is utterly confused and misguided.

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Lol imagine believing this is incompetence vs intentional.

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It's ENTIRELY intentional. They're doing what they told us they would do.

They're forcing us to move away from fossil fuels, economic impacts will be written off as "unavoidable covid casualties".

Klaus Schwab laid it all out for us in Davos.

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You had one of the major bank executives say almost same thing just a few days ago. There will be much pain in the near term and however long it will take to make the transition. Many will die and live in poverty because of it but they don't care because they can weather the storm.

The last civil war began because the Union was threatening the economic livelihood of the southern states.

What happens when these federal policies start seriously impacting Texas and other energy producing states' bottom line? (Because they already are, and it will get much worse)

There is no doubt **** is going to hit the fan. I hope every liberal faces what they need to face, and that's fear.

EwingBarnes said:

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There is no doubt **** is going to hit the fan. I hope every liberal faces what they need to face, and that's fear.

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They already live in fear. They lap it up. They bathe in it. They can't get enough fear.

The elites pulling the strings are the ones that need to be made afraid.

AgGrad99 said:

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This is what happens when you depend on a sole source.

Hoping we'll learn from this, and diversify manufacturing/supply, but I doubt it.

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It's a balancing act no doubt. Specialization yields efficiencies which are great when everything's going well, but problematic when there are interruptions.

You're 100% right.

I had a buddy of mine whose parts were made solely in China. His main competitor had some made in China, along with two other locations.

When Trump's Admin imposed the Tariffs, he had no choice but to raise his prices. His competitor?...he lowered his prices, and it killed my buddy's sales. He lost a lot of customers.

Long story short, they were looking at other locations to manufacture, but as time as gone on, Tariffs rolled back, etc...they've shelved this effort, because short term, it's cheaper again to make it solely in China.

Frustrating to say the least.

n_touch said:

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BAP Enthusiast said:

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China is panicking just like we are because they have no fuel for their power plants, which means no power to their factories.

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Why is this a problem all of a sudden or was this building for a few years? How were they getting fuel before now?

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Same reason our supply chain broke. They shut everything down and now their insanely risky investments are being called. They have no money, no storage of fuel (coal or oil/natural gas), and they can't get them from other countries who now need them domestically.

Going to make the next Mecum auto auction in Houston next spring a lot more interesting. I went to the one in Dallas this September and didn't realize how many just plain ol' regular cars were there to be sold.

Will be interesting to see how much prices go up on similar vehicles.

Damn if we get hit with an EMP now, the great western experiment in democracy is over. We will be in ruins, literally within 50 years.

Dow Chemical used to make a metric crap ton of magnesium at their Freeport Plant A facility, but they shut it down about 15 years ago. Bet they wish they hadn't of now.

Agthatbuilds said:

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I've have a 77 Volkswagen. Yeah, it can suck with the somewhat regular tinkering.


But, it doesn't cost me a couple grand to take it to the shop like my truck does

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Makes me want to pull the old 70 bug into the garage and finish it up. Engine is done...thank goodness.

Ag In Ok said:

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This is an economic hot war and the current administration is allied with the CCP against the middle class

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Fify.

MookieBlaylock said:

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For a hundred yeara they made cars without chips that worked fine
Shouldnt be too hard

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This

Agthatbuilds said:

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There has to be a market for a dumb car.

Give me ac, radio and 4x4 and I'm gtg. Don't need a backup camera. Don't need a blind spot indicator, lane assist, auto mirrors. Don't need auto seats, seat heater, motor windows. Don't need to track mpgs, outside temperature, the direction I'm facing.

And so on. Give me the most mechanical truck that requires the least amount of cpu power.

I can't be the only one who'd prefer something like that.

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All two of us. Plus some of that stuff is by regulation.

schmellba99 said:

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Dow Chemical used to make a metric crap ton of magnesium at their Freeport Plant A facility, but they shut it down about 15 years ago. Bet they wish they hadn't of now.

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The hell of it is, if Trump were still in office he would be working with them to re-open the operation. You know, solve the damn problem.