Tailgate88 said:

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txags92 said:

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oldyeller said:

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PearlJammin said:

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Everyone is walking around with a video camera. Need to record this behavior.

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Students who do this in the classroom will be in violation of student rules against unauthorized recording, and may face further sanction, which will weaken any legitimate claims they have. Better to file a claim using the proper channels.

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Are you sure that is accurate? I would think that a classroom setting is one that would qualify as a place somebody has no right to an expectation of privacy, so unauthorized recording there would not be an issue.

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I'm paying $15K + for my kid to sit in that classroom and learn. If he wants to record the lecture he damn well ought to be able to.

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I agree with you. What about distance learning? Those lectures were recorded, correct?

you wrongthought :/

Dems will claim they made this up....

TommyBrady said:

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They are trying to be smart by only putting up signs about the teaching hospital mask mandate. They won't put anything in writing about undergrad or DVM classes because they know it would be evidence easily shared.

They are trying to be as smart as possible about not getting into state trouble and only talking about it verbally

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Are they concerned a student will get an animal sick?

txags92 said:

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oldyeller said:

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txags92 said:

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oldyeller said:

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txags92 said:

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oldyeller said:

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txags92 said:

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oldyeller said:

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PearlJammin said:

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Everyone is walking around with a video camera. Need to record this behavior.

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Students who do this in the classroom will be in violation of student rules against unauthorized recording, and may face further sanction, which will weaken any legitimate claims they have. Better to file a claim using the proper channels.

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Are you sure that is accurate? I would think that a classroom setting is one that would qualify as a place somebody has no right to an expectation of privacy, so unauthorized recording there would not be an issue.

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Check out student rule 24.4.18:

Quote:

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24.4.18. Unauthorized recording. Any unauthorized use of electronic or other devices to make an audio, video, still frame or photographic record of any persons without their prior knowledge, or without their effective consent when the person or persons being recorded have a reasonable expectation of privacy and/or such recording is likely to cause injury or distress. This includes, but is not limited to, surreptitiously taking pictures of another person in a gym, locker room, or restroom or recording administrative meetings with University officials. If a recording is made that captures a violation of the Student Rules or law, the Student Conduct Administrator may elect not to enforce this section of the Student Rules against the student making the recording.

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Classroom discussions count as conversations, and hence carry an expectation of privacy. The rooms may be restricted to only those enrolled in or involved in the teaching of the class, and hence are also not fully public spaces, which buttresses the expectation of privacy upon which the rule depends.

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I don't agree at all that what a professor openly says in a classroom would qualify as having a right to an expectation of privacy. You are talking about recording conversations between two students, while we are talking about a student recording a professor talking to the class. The professor has no right to an expecation of privacy, and as long as the student is recording the professor without including video of any students that could allow them to be identified, I can't see how that would violate that rule. Since what the professors are doing are violating an executive order from the Governor of Texas and the stated policy of TAMU, I would expect that the SCA would waive enforcement.

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The issue here is that you assume that students' voices may not also be captured, which could be employed in identification, and result in the problems noted earlier. Exchanges between instructor and student also take place in a classroom, and are considered conversations. It appears many here have a narrow focus on this mask issue, in regards to recording, without considering all the abuses that could result by abandoning the existing rule on unauthorized recordings in place to protect academic freedom and avoid disclosure of FERPA protected information. There's a reason for the old maxim "hard cases make bad law."

To the matter at hand, if the individual faculty policies in place can affect a student's grade, they have to be in writing, e.g. on the syllabus. So if there is a classroom policy stating that failure to mask up can impact a student's grade and it isn't on the syllabus, there is already grounds for contesting the policy. Extra credit for mask wearing has been noted as permissible, in order to encourage mask wearing, but faculty who employ these means are supposed to provide comparable opportunities for extra credit to those students who elect to not wear a mask so that no situation arises where students are treated differently academically based upon their mask preference.

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That assumes students are having side conversations while the prof is talking, which is not something most profs would allow for longer than about 20 seconds when I was in school. And again, this goes back to recording illegal behavior by the prof. Incidental recording of classroom conversations that would be going on loudly enough to be captured also would likely not qualify as having an expectation of privacy either. And in any case, the student recording the illegal behavior by the prof should have enforcement of that rule waived in the interest of stopping the illegal behavior, as allowed by the rules you quoted.

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Their giving a lecture is not illegal, so how exactly would one record a professor engaged in illegal activity in the classroom? What may be inconsistent with the governor's executive order is a policy about attendance and/or the effect of mask wearing upon the student's grade. That seems to be the matter at hand, and capturing a lecture digitally doesn't really seem to address that specific concern. There is also the matter of academic freedom to consider, along with intellectual property rights faculty have over their lectures and teaching materials. So while you may believe that unauthorized recording is permissible, or should be, it doesn't seem as if it would aid this particular problem, and would generate far more issues than it resolves.

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Are you one of the profs involved here or something? You seem to be of the opinion that people are just randomly wanting to record these profs lecturing and include everybody in the class in the recording as well as all of their conversations.

This whole discussion started because it was alleged that these professors were telling people that they had to wear masks to class or they would be sent home and there would be academic and professional consequences if they refused. That is illegal under the governor's executive orders. The allegation was that they were doing it verbally instead of in writing so that there would be no evidence that they had said it. Somebody suggested showing up without a mask and recording the professor kicking them out.

That would be a singular instance of a student recording a professor in a public setting (where they have no right to an expectation of privacy) doing something illegal and against expressed policies at A&M, by requiring that a student wear a mask in order to attend class. You keep coming up with all these extraneous arguments about how they would be recording which students are coming and going and who is taking what class, etc. that have no bearing whatsoever on the situation involved.

A student is not going to get kicked out of A&M or face disciplinary action for recording a professor doing something that the university leadership and the governor of Texas have expressly forbidden the professors from doing. If they do, they will win a nice legal settlement against the university for it.

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No, but I was wanting to make clear that in directing students to do something that likely will have no affect on rescinding any supposed mask mandates, because how common are these mandates to be verbally repeated by a faculty member in each and every class meeting, or is there to be a confrontation as you describe this far in to the semester, many may inadvertently be directing students to do something that places them in jeopardy. The only way what you describe would happen now is if a student went in and provoked the encounter with the express intention of getting the altercation on video/audio.

Further, everyone's favorite chalk doodler has previously demonstrated how familiar he is with the student rules, which is how the whole chalk fiasco started in the first place, and I have no doubt that if a student were to violate a rule in one of his classes in a way that may portray him negatively that he would be willing to pursue action against the student if the opportunity presented itself. There are likely others who would do the same.

So my overall aim in these posts was to a) point out that unauthorized recording is generally a bad idea, no matter one's intentions; b) make clear that the faculty have to place in writing any policy affecting a student's grade, making recordings an unnecessary risk for students because verbal policies are unenforceable without also having it on the syllabus, and c) remind folks that we do actually want Aggies to learn in the classroom, and as such should be mindful of how to secure an environment where open discussion is not impeded by unnecessary fears. Would we, for example, be outraged if a student in a class discussing current events was unknowingly recorded pointing out flaws in some of the arguments forwarded by the BLM movement, and a clip of their classroom debate shared and they labeled as a racist on social media? Of course we would, and that's the point. The classroom has to be protected so that students feel comfortable engaging in thoughtful and respectful debate, that is always guided by well-informed reason.

As a point of fact, there were some posters who were not wishing to limit recordings solely to a short clip of a confrontation, but were responding to the charge that faculty were recording the sessions so others should be allowed to record too. There have been other threads, and other groups, where discussions have drifted to recruiting students to capture faculty engaged in the teaching of possibly leftist ideology. While I understand why that is tempting, it again places students in peril, and may limit speech, which are two things I happen to think folks should give a darn about, i.e. we should not see students suffer because an Old Ag told them to do something without realizing it falls under the heading of student misconduct, and students should be exposed to radically different ideas and provided an opportunity to debate those ideas in an open, respectful, and well-reasoned way.

Many of you here think so highly of Dr. Banks, so I guess we'll see how she responds to all of this.

Ever enter your thinking that like human hospitals, vet hospitals require present employees to provide services? Can't really zoom in if you are positive or a close contact.
Faced with a choice of mask in clinical settings or closing down, I would give masks a chance like we do in human hospitals/medical facilities.

And I know first hand that the admin is addressing those that try to "require" masks against the mandate.

flogmat said:

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I continue to be astounded at how many people out there believe they they can just do whatever they want whenever they want.

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They must think they're free or something!

Those that expect privacy barking at a bunch of students should just not bark publicly.

Do mask stop the spread? Answer that please

Yes.

Did the friend have comorbidities? Did they have a vaccine? Were they wearing a mask?

A mask wouldn't do much good should you enter a confined place known to have high covid activity because they don't do any good anywhere they are worn.

They don't do any good. Not for covid, anyway.

TommyBrady said:

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I will report it and I hope others will too. The more people they hear from the more likely they are to react.

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I would like to report this as well. Who should I address?

Agthatbuilds said:

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They don't do any good. Not for covid, anyway.

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Thats what I said

Lol. Nice

Fire the professors. Or, take them to court.

Agthatbuilds said:

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Do mask stop the spread? Answer that please

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Stop the spread? No. Slow the spread, maybe. There is anecdotal evidence to suggest that they may do that:

COVID in Context: Bryan and College Station ISDs don't have mask mandates. How do their cases compares to districts that do?

There are a lot of variables at play though, and a lot of the data on the efficacy of masks depends on a number of factors, e.g. the mask is fresh, accurately rated, properly fitted to the face, etc. So what the test environments suggest, and what we see in real world application can differ as a result and we have to keep that in mind.

If we expect masks to be some "bulletproof shield" against infection, that simply isn't going to happen. Of course, to stick with the analogy, even bulletproof vests can be defeated when taxed outside the limitations of their design.

If we really wanted to see masks making a difference, we'd have to have everyone properly wearing N95/KN95 masks, with a supply that they can refresh regularly. As is the vast majority of what passes for a mask won't do diddly to contain the aerosols people exhale.

What's up Ian?!?!

I feel the same. I wanted to make a donation, and the more I discovered about how things are run these days, the more I decided that ain't never gonna happen.

Hope all is well with you!

Hope I didn't get anybody banned for all this. I appreciate all the support and hope the harassment of students end.

Don't put much faith in anything KBTX puts out.

Their reporting is on par with CNN and MSDNCCP when it comes to putting out coronafear and propaganda.

Check your DMs