This is the one I think most people who just do not trust mRNA vaccines will be willing to take.

The actual anti-vaxxers already claim it is part of Bill Gates population reduction plan so nothing will satisfy them.

Rapier108 said:

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This is the one I think most people who just do not trust mRNA vaccines will be willing to take.

The actual anti-vaxxers already claim it is part of Bill Gates population reduction plan so nothing will satisfy them.

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They are living proof of the plan. They refused the vaccines so Bill Gates hasn't been able to kill/sterilize them. What more evidence do you need, idiot?

I thought that Novavax was going the traditional route with using dead or inactivated Covid virus to generate a natural immune response. Did they change the plan or was what I read previously incorrect ? ? ?

Any info on test group getting and/or carrying Covid like the mRNA Vaxed people are doing ? ? ?

I have also read that some scientist think that targeting the spike protein only is a mistake. Any one got more on that ? ? ?

My understanding from my research today was that this was always going to be a recombinant protein. Maybe that's not right? Maybe they were going to try and fabricate the whole protein? Maybe NovaVax had parallel research going on?

The main scientist at NovaVax was the one that developed the moth cell factory, so it wouldn't make any sense for him to be looking to create a killed virus.

However, the Phase 3 trial data looks very, very good.

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/us-clinical-trial-results-show-novavax-vaccine-safe-prevents-covid-19

This is the kind of double-blind, randomized study that one would hope would be part of a regular FDA approval. Even if this wasn't a COVID vaccine, I would be expecting approval of this thing in another year or so.

So far, about 45,000 trial volunteers, and no reports of many major adverse reactions.

IMO, much lower chance of long-term complications since there is no re-wiring going on in your body.

All for this. Hopefully more will be willing to take this one. Hep B vaccines and others use this tech.

And I know this has been beaten to death, but the mRNA vaccines do not mess with your DNA, at all. The mRNA does not enter the cell nucleus. mRNA works by getting gobbled up by the ribosomes in your cells (outside the nucleus where your DNA is) and the ribosomes use those instructions to produce the protein.

The Johnson and Johnson vaccine actually does enter the cell nucleus. It causes the cell nucleus to produce the mRNA, which goes to the ribosomes, which produces the proteins.

And the good thing about this vaccine is that it can be stored at room temperature. More than likely this is going to be used in a lot of Third World countries. Apparently the US govt has been reluctant to purchase a bunch of these.

I don't know about that, but we actually have excess vaccines here now. Some are about to expire and they are trying to figure out what to do with them. Demand has come up a little bit over the last few weeks but we are going to end up throwing some of the vaccines away.

There's a geopolitical aspect to this as well, we don't want to be seen as hoarding when we already have plenty of vaccines available. Frankly I don't give a **** if we are hoarding a little bit as long as people are willing to take this one who weren't willing to take the other ones.

OP,

before we just focus on this vaccine, can you explain this regarding mRNA vaccines.

Quote:

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2) There is no DNA reprogramming going on in your body.

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Harry Stone said:

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OP,

before we just focus on this vaccine, can you explain this regarding mRNA vaccines.

Quote:

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2) There is no DNA reprogramming going on in your body.

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Yeah. I'm as critical of the mRNA vaccines as anyone, but it's a false statement to claim it reprograms your DNA.

The mRNA is embedded in fats which enable it to penetrate cells and instruct them to manufacture spike proteins. The injection contains no enzyme or catalyst that could cause any genetic material to integrate with your DNA.

Womackster said:

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Harry Stone said:

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OP,

before we just focus on this vaccine, can you explain this regarding mRNA vaccines.

Quote:

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2) There is no DNA reprogramming going on in your body.

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Yeah. I'm as critical of the mRNA vaccines as anyone, but it's a false statement to claim it reprograms your DNA.

The mRNA is embedded in fats which enable it to penetrate cells and instruct them to manufacture spike proteins among other things, that are yet to be seen but must be suspected due to how hard this one particular brand new technology is being pushed. The injection contains no enzyme or catalyst that could cause any genetic material to integrate with your DNA.

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FIFY

Maybe Im misunderstanding, but were the mRNA vaccines required to go through phase 3 clinical trials in order to receive their EUA classification?

One of Norm's best. My other top two are the frog named Kermit and Uncle Terry in Vietnam.

Norm, we're pretty much out of time here.

I had planned on waiting until June/July to get any vaccine, because A) I felt like I've had covid but never got the testing nor antibodies because when I was sick, the government was telling everyone it wasn't possible in that time period, and B) I wanted to make sure everyone who needed to get the vaccine would have the opportunity to get it. Once we got into June, I started researching which vaccine I was going to get, and this Novavax announcement came out. I am all on board with getting this vaccine. I have been hesitant with the mRNA vaxes just from my reading and my gut intuition, and the J&J one wasn't as good at prevention as the mRNA or Novavax trails were showing.

I think it is a bad move for the United States government to be pushing for vaccines, and not even give this one as an option to people. Heck, buy a certain smaller amount and start offering, and see what the response is and go from there. If no one takes this vaccine as well, you know there is a certain segment of the population that just won't get the vaccine, and you can then donate what is not used since it has a longer lifespan. Based on everything I've read online, I think there is a large chunk of people like me who are willing to get a vaccine, but are not looking to getting the current offerings. It is a cannot lose proposition.

As for the part about not hording the vaccine and how it looks to the world - if American companies are the development, screw them - we get first dibs, and what we don't use can be doled out to the others. Sorry, but America First as I would expect every other country in the world to do for their population.

Lastly, for the concern to not buy Novavax because we have the other vaccines that are sitting around about to expire - like above, offer as an olive branch to these "other" countries. "Hey, we miss judged our country's want, we have 5 million doses available to any country that has the want and facilities to handle the doses, reach out to our embassies, first come first serve - no charge". Kind of like when you have a junker car you want to get rid of, you post the notice with claim first one to show up and haul off gets it. Again, a cannot lose proposition.

With all that said, I fully expect none of my options above to happen, and for the country at some point by the end of the year to continue down the path of here are your vaccines options (Pfizer, Moderna, J&J), and you have to get them. I am not sure what I will do, but I've considered a "medical vacation" option to wherever Novavax is offered. I am writing my representative, my senators, Rand Paul, and more local Texas representatives to plead for the Novavax option. It would be wise for everyone who is interested in this option, or truly on the everyone get vaccinated train to do the same. Make the American voices be heard.

Quote:

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The mRNA is embedded in fats which enable it to penetrate cells and instruct them to manufacture spike proteins. The injection contains no enzyme or catalyst that could cause any genetic material to integrate with your DNA.

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This might prove to be the most incredible breakthrough in medical history. It might replace penicillin and antibiotics, as medical game-changers.

But the concept of my body producing something, that my body then attacks makes me nervous. It's like we've created an auto-immune disease designed to prevent the virus.

Isn't this how Mothra started?

Quote:

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Novavax is a "subunit" vaccine, similar to pertussis and other common vaccines. It is a technology that is 40 years old. This vaccine delivers the actual spike protein (or something that looks very similar), so your body is never given genetic code to create the protein itself. Your body just sees the protein, attacks it, and develops immunity.

The novel part of Novavax is how they make the protein. How it is delivered to the body is very traditional.

And I am very surprised the US government is more or less ignoring Novavax. I know numerous people like Rapier who would take this vaccine but are hesitant on the nucleic acid shots. From a public health perspective, if the government truly wanted to boost vaccination rates, they should be pre-buying/promoting this vax.

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Very well said.

The CEO/Director has strongly hinted as much.

I would bet everything i have, it has to do with funding, and who is invested in the initial 3, versus Novavax. The fact that it can be stored at room temp, and has such a long life span would make it soooo much easier to distribute.

BusterAg said:

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I have been traveling and working a bit until the last couple of days, so this somehow slipped by radar.

We have a new vaccine coming out, NovaVax.

Here is the most plain English description of how it works: https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/moths-and-tree-bark-how-the-novavax-vaccine-works

Here is a more detailed article: https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/11/will-small-long-shot-us-company-end-producing-best-coronavirus-vaccine

Long story short:

The Novavax method uses moth cells to make spike proteins:

[ol]

Researchers select the desired genes that create certain SARS-CoV-2 antigens (spike protein).

Researchers put the genes into a baculovirus, an insect virus.

The baculovirus infects moth cells and replicates inside them.

These moth cells create lots of spike proteins.

Researchers extract and purify the spike proteins.

[Researchers add turbo-boost for vaccine made from soapbark tree]

[/ol]

Why I am hopeful:
1) Just as effective as mRNA and adenovirus vaccines.
2) There is no DNA reprogramming going on in your body. The spike protein is manufactured in the moth's body, not yours
3) This is a better known technology with a longer history. Similar technology was used to develop a Hep B vaccine that has been part of the routine vaccinations for kids since the early 1990's

Protein Subunit Vaccine:
That is what NovaVax is. Basically, you just take the part of the virus that creates the immune response, and inject it into the patient. It's different than a killed virus or an attenuated virus vaccine, in that you don't have the entire virus injected, only the part that creates an immune response.

About the only lucky thing for us about COVID is that the protein that causes the immune response sticks out like a sore thumb (its da spike, duh).

More on protein subunit vaccines:

https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/what-are-protein-subunit-vaccines-and-how-could-they-be-used-against-covid-19#:~:text=Examples%20include%20the%20hepatitis%20B,to%20diphtheria%20or%20tetanus%20toxoid

https://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/articles/different-types-vaccines

Fun fact, the moth cell model used to make the vaccine was developed by an Aggie class of '83.

Why I will likely not get the vaccine: I'm immune. I got sick, and then got better. I don't need it.

Why I might go ahead and get the vaccine: they might be able to tailor make this sucker to follow the virus mutations around the spike protein. ie, they might be able to make a vaccine that is targeted to new variants as they pop up

Would I give this vaccine to my teenage kids? No. They are not really at risk.

The phase 3 data looks very, very good. I'm hoping this thing hits mass production soon.

I did ask my mom and dad to both schedule T-cell tests. They believe they had COVID, but I'm not sure. If those come back negative, I will recommend them getting this one, for sure.

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Thanks for the links and information, I have been waiting for this vaccine to get approved before I make a decision on whether I get vaccinated and which version.

PaulC_80 said:

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I thought that Novavax was going the traditional route with using dead or inactivated Covid virus to generate a natural immune response. Did they change the plan or was what I read previously incorrect ? ? ?

Any info on test group getting and/or carrying Covid like the mRNA Vaxed people are doing ? ? ?

I have also read that some scientist think that targeting the spike protein only is a mistake. Any one got more on that ? ? ?

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No they didn't change the plan, however, this type of vaccine has been approved in the past. It is not new technology and has a history.

BusterAg said:

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My understanding from my research today was that this was always going to be a recombinant protein. Maybe that's not right? Maybe they were going to try and fabricate the whole protein? Maybe NovaVax had parallel research going on?

The main scientist at NovaVax was the one that developed the moth cell factory, so it wouldn't make any sense for him to be looking to create a killed virus.

However, the Phase 3 trial data looks very, very good.

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/us-clinical-trial-results-show-novavax-vaccine-safe-prevents-covid-19

This is the kind of double-blind, randomized study that one would hope would be part of a regular FDA approval. Even if this wasn't a COVID vaccine, I would be expecting approval of this thing in another year or so.

• Novavax (a Maryland company) had previously targeted June then August of this year for approval.
• It is less expensive and doesn't require the extreme temperature storage that the mRNA vaccines require.
• Its international sales could be enormous due to price and storage requirements.

So far, about 45,000 trial volunteers, and no reports of many major adverse reactions.

IMO, much lower chance of long-term complications since there is no re-wiring going on in your body.

• Depends on if the protein subunit can get into the blood stream and travel to other parts of the body like the heart and brain and attach to these cells.

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I am hopeful

Very interested in this one and will likely opt for it when it comes out.

When we decide to take out China, I will be in the vanguard which will be the First Division Mothra Wing over Wuhan:

C@LAg said:

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PaulC_80 said:

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I thought that Novavax was going the traditional route with using dead or inactivated Covid virus to generate a natural immune response. Did they change the plan or was what I read previously incorrect ? ? ?

Any info on test group getting and/or carrying Covid like the mRNA Vaxed people are doing ? ? ?

I have also read that some scientist think that targeting the spike protein only is a mistake. Any one got more on that ? ? ?

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The vaccine part operates more or less the same as the other two vaccines. it introduces the spike protein and your body reacts to it. So it will very likely suffer the same long-term effectiveness (or lack thereof) similar to the other two vaccines.

the huge advantage is none of that mrna mumbo jumbo bill**** and rewriting your body to do things it would not normally do.

but the point as to whether reacting to just the spike is enough is a valid one. the virus is much more than just its spike protein. And maybe, just maybe, your bodies reaction to it should include reacting to other parts of the virus to grant you longer term immunity.

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your bodies reaction to it should include reacting to other parts of the virus to grant you longer term immunity
Agreed

blacksox said:

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Moth dna? No thanks.

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That has got to be the most ignorant snarky response in the history of this website.

edit for clarity