taxpreparer said:

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halfastros81 said:

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Taxing unrealized investment gains is a ridiculous concept.

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This. Suppose they would let us take unrealized losses? No, I did not think so.

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I imagine they'd keep the same rules for deducting recognized capital gains (I.e. use your losses to offset your gains, then you can only deduct 3000 from ordinary income).

On top of all the other problems taxing unrealized gains bring, one thing I haven't seen mentioned that might be one of the biggest problems is reporting.

Most people don't realize you have to pay tax every quarter. Firms and financial institutions are going to have to send 1099 statements to people every three months and then people are going to have to pay the IRS every quarter. Naturally most people won't do this and they'll accrue interest and penalties on top of their tax.

It'd be a ****ing nightmare for everyone.

When they die / doesn't the government take 50% no matter what?

Or they have to give it all the charity to avoid that?

So in the end doesn't the government get their piece of the pie?

Champ Bailey said:

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They are coming after unrealized gains next. Which will kill investing and any opportunity to move up in this country. It's a great way to entrench the upper and lower classes in perpetuity.

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The irony is, its being done in the name of Marxism, which is a theory that is supposed to eliminate societal classes.

One thing Biden's tax plan does do is eliminate the stepped up basis for inherited assets.

That IS almost like taxing unrealized gains.

Question on this article and the First Amendment.

ProPublica doesn't make any attempt to hide that these records were obtained illicitly:

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The confidential tax records obtained by ProPublica show that the ultrarich effectively sidestep this system.

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ProPublica is not disclosing how it obtained the data, which was given to us in raw form, with no conditions or conclusions.

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We all know in regards to freedom of speech, the First Amendment prevents the government from censoring what you say or prosecuting you for it. However, you can still be held accountable as a private party can censor your words or sue you in court if harmed by what you say.

What about freedom of the press? The government can't stop ProPublica from releasing this information, but could the billionaires who had their personal information stolen sue ProPublica?

1) Where was this article in March 2020 or the Fall of 2008?;
2) Funds used to invest were already taxed once as income;
3) Wealth and poverty are choices. There is no barrier to entry in the market. Start SOMEWHERE! Study, build, manage and grow. It's not that complicated.

torrid said:

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Question on this article and the First Amendment.

ProPublica doesn't make any attempt to hide that these records were obtained illicitly:

Quote:

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The confidential tax records obtained by ProPublica show that the ultrarich effectively sidestep this system.

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Quote:

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ProPublica is not disclosing how it obtained the data, which was given to us in raw form, with no conditions or conclusions.

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We all know in regards to freedom of speech, the First Amendment prevents the government from censoring what you say or prosecuting you for it. However, you can still be held accountable as a private party can censor your words or sue you in court if harmed by what you say.

What about freedom of the press? The government can't stop ProPublica from releasing this information, but could the billionaires who had their personal information stolen sue ProPublica?

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Really, it probably isn't worth the effort. I mean, they could try to sue ProPublica, but I don't think it would go far. They would get more traction suing the person or people who gave the information to ProPublica. Either way, you aren't likely to get much, and you've created more publicity for the story itself.

BBRex said:

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torrid said:

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Question on this article and the First Amendment.

ProPublica doesn't make any attempt to hide that these records were obtained illicitly:

Quote:

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The confidential tax records obtained by ProPublica show that the ultrarich effectively sidestep this system.

---

Quote:

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ProPublica is not disclosing how it obtained the data, which was given to us in raw form, with no conditions or conclusions.

---

We all know in regards to freedom of speech, the First Amendment prevents the government from censoring what you say or prosecuting you for it. However, you can still be held accountable as a private party can censor your words or sue you in court if harmed by what you say.

What about freedom of the press? The government can't stop ProPublica from releasing this information, but could the billionaires who had their personal information stolen sue ProPublica?

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Really, it probably isn't worth the effort. I mean, they could try to sue ProPublica, but I don't think it would go far. They would get more traction suing the person or people who gave the information to ProPublica. Either way, you aren't likely to get much, and you've created more publicity for the story itself.

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Probably so. However, that crappy journalistic hit piece has made me very angry. It's one of the worst things I have read in some time.

Champ Bailey said:

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Something simple most people in our country do not understand. Regardless of your personal views on him, Kiwosaki should be required teaching in HS.

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This is good.

I do think the reform of the tax code should start with corporations. There obviously shouldn't be taxes on unrealized gains, but its also another thing to be able to use stock and other assets to loan against and then not pay taxes on that. In other words, you are getting the benefit of the asset, but not paying tax on it.

I'm not saying there is a simple solution to that (as that would also be a house for a normal person), but there is something fundamentally wrong with everyone on this board paying more taxes than Bezos.

I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here:

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Consider Bezos' 2007, one of the years he paid zero in federal income taxes

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So, Bezos didn't take any gains in 2007?

We should tax homeowners every year for the equity increase in their properties. We can include as an add-on to property taxes!

Serves those evil rich people right for putting extra money on the principal.

FYI - saw a headline hit my feed yesterday that said the IRS is now investigating these 25 folks specifically because of this article.

YouBet said:

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FYI - saw a headline hit my feed yesterday that said the IRS is now investigating these 25 folks specifically because of this article.

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Friend of a friend took a job at the IRS. During training, they were instructed to Google themselves in the IRS computer system. It came back with her information, stuff about her ex-husband, and also the five or six women he had been married to since.

They obviously have a lot of information on every American, and even low-level employees can access it. I would imagine the traceability of who viewed what is very limited.

Liberals don't understand the difference between Income and Wealth.

Champ Bailey said:

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taxpreparer said:

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If you have a mortgage liability, you should have a real estate asset.

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Yeah, this is where people get contentious with him. He doesn't include a mortgage as a real estate asset if you are not using it to generate rental income due to housing market crashes that may depreciate the asset.

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so where is savings in this diagram for the middle class? or if you are fiscally responsible and manage to not live from paycheck to paycheck are you excluded from the middle class?

I thought it was worth bumping this old thread. Apparently there has been an arrest made of the leaker, but you know nothing is going to happen to him. Whistleblower and all, evil rich people taking advantage of tax laws that have been standard for decades.

https://apnews.com/article/leak-tax-return-irs-charges-213909430bcaf8b50600d67bfe45f89a

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WASHINGTON (AP) A former contractor for the Internal Revenue Service was charged Friday with leaking tax information to news outlets about thousands of the country's wealthiest people.

Charles Edward Littlejohn, 38, of Washington, D.C., is accused of stealing the tax return information and giving it to two news outlets between 2018 and 2020, the Justice Department said in a statement. Littlejohn declined to comment when reached by The Associated Press, which also left a message for his attorney, Lisa Manning.

Both organizations published numerous articles about the tax information, some of which dated back more than 15 years, charging documents state.

The outlets are not named in charging documents, but the description and time frame align with stories about former President Donald Trump's tax returns in The New York Times and reporting about wealthy Americans' taxes in the nonprofit investigative journalism organization ProPublica.

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Looks like one of the billionaires named by ProPublica is suing the IRS, pulling the ProPublica asshats into the lawsuit.

https://pressfreedomtracker.us/all-incidents/propublica-receives-sprawling-subpoena-following-tax-evasion-series/

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ProPublica and five of its journalists were each subpoenaed on Aug. 22, 2023, in connection with an ongoing lawsuit filed by hedge fund billionaire Ken Griffin against the Internal Revenue Service, the nonprofit newsroom confirmed to the U.S. Press Freedom Tracker.

Griffin filed the suit in federal court in Miami in December 2022, alleging that the IRS failed to establish "appropriate administrative, technical, and/or physical safeguards" to protect his private data.

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And, big shocker, he gets a sweetheart deal from our corrupt injustice partisans on the left…

Meet Charles "Chaz" Littlejohn, the guy who illegally leaked Trump's taxes to the NY Times (and IRS data on @elonmusk and Bloomberg to ProPublica). Big shock: he's getting a sweetheart plea deal. https://t.co/hRZgXpBh4J

— Tom Bevan (@TomBevanRCP) October 18, 2023

Would be great if journalists making financial opinion pieces actually understood the difference between a balance sheet and an income statement.


I know, way too much to ask for the liberal mind.

halfastros81 said:

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Taxing unrealized investment gains is a ridiculous concept.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this what I pay every year on my real estate holdings' appraised values?

They should change the name of the company to Booze-Allen.