This is where I am drawing the line on my mask wearing.

Once everyone has had an opportunity to get a vaccine who wants one in Texas (looks like by Memorial Day, this will be a reality), I'm going to stop with the theater. Anything after that is a pure power play not based any anything scientific (if it ever was in the first place).

Through May and into June the rhetoric against those who choose not to vaccinate will increase.

By July, "anti-vaxxers" will be blamed for every case, fatality, and restriction still in place.

"If it wasn't for those damned anti -vaxxers, we'd be back to normal and unemployment would be down,
and the economy would be soaring....".

Just wait. Everything negative will be the fault of anti-vaxxers by August.

You mean evil, racist, Trump supporting, white anti-vaxxers.

CoachO_08 said:

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DimebagsGhost said:

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beerad12man said:

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Strategy said:

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You don't need to inject your body with a shot with a 92% effective rate for a disease that has a 99% recovery rate.

Read that again.

This is the biggest scam outside of Obama being a natural citizen and Trump losing the election.

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I think that's a pretty poor summation of things.

If you don't want it, don't get it. But it goes well beyond this. It most certainly shouldn't be mandatory, nor should passports become a thing here in America, they have no place in a free country. (I believe they will for many countries so if you want to travel internationally you might have to reconsider)

For example, over 100,000,000 people, even 99.3% to 99.7% can add up to 300,000 to 700,000 deaths. If those same 100,000,000 million got the shot, I guarantee you the deaths drop dramatically from 300-700k. Maybe 0 from covid or the vaccine itself, but at worst something like 15k to 35k deaths. This makes it a no brainer for a public health official to be pushing these. And for me, who isn't scared of either the virus or the vaccine, a no brainer to take it. This vaccine will prove to be safer and more effective than possibly any vaccine in human history. I am very, very confident in saying that. They are a go****** miracle from where I am sitting.

So as an individual, do what you want. It all works itself out because plenty are willing to get it. But, thinking as a public health official, the more shots, the lower the deaths. This isn't complicated. Of course they want the shots in those 100 million arms instead. not to mention, the long term damage of the virus is even higher than 0.3% to 0.7%, and almost assuredly higher than anything the vaccine can do to you.

You know, you can hate lockdowns. Hate the masks. Hate the way the world has acted and our world leaders trying to play god over a virus. But you don't have to go 100% all in on something. You can do all your research and easily see why getting the majority of the population vaccinated is a good thing overall, despite hating most of the rest of what is going on.

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im also not sure why people are 100% not afraid of COVID, but are 100% afraid of getting a vaccine... doesnt make sense except for the "I dont do what Im told.... Imma adult!! you cant tell me what to do!" crowd I guess.

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It makes perfect sense. The disease for most of the population is not deadly. And there has been no longitudinal testing on any of these vaccines. It is perfectly scientific and practical to take a "wait and see" approach if you are not among a high risk population group.

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I get hesitancy from the low risk. I was honestly in that category around December of 2020. But I kept reading, and reading, and understanding more and more. If you don't want to get it, or take more time before doing so, go for it. But I've just read enough to outweigh that.

Do you know the percentage of long term affects of the virus? I don't. I would bet my life savings that the vaccines are less than that of the virus itself. Logically speaking, there are less in the vaccines that can hurt you than the virus itself. But I guess with your logic, we technically don't have the data on that and may not know with 100% confidence for 10 or 20 years. What I always find amazing about these arguments, are that the justification is not knowing the long term effects of the vaccine but somehow ignore the possibility of long term effects from the virus, Which is not in the 99.3 to 99.7% recovery rate. That's only live or die. There are actually quite a few more than end up with some long term damage, even among younger people. I'm not saying it's like 50%, but it wouldn't shock me if anywhere from 1-5% have some kind of debilitating, long term damage from it. Maybe something as simple as slightly reduced lung capacity. No one knows the exact percentages, but I consider it a bigger unknown than the vaccine, personally.

But everything indicates that with a vaccine, particularly mRNA, it's technically only in your system for a few days, and all previous mRNA trials (the last couple of decades) had issues within the first few weeks. Meanwhile, we have nearly a billion doses out, with mere anecdotes of minor issues. I would say far, far less than if you gave all the same people Covid, for all age groups.

Either way, for me, I consider both to be virtually nil, am not worried about either, but can easily see why getting 60% or so of the population vaccinated is a good thing overall. So it is, without question, a no brainer for me, a 34 year old, healthy male to get the vaccine.

I've had some conversations with the few people I know that are refusing the vaccine as of now. Actually convinced one to go ahead and get it. One is absolutely an "I don't do what you tell me to" type and will likely always refuse, a couple more are like you just waiting more data.

If you think the # of people who die or have serious complications because of the vaccine will be less than the total # of deaths prevented you are out of your mind.

Using your logic everyone should get a flu shot, and any additional shot from the next "pandemic."

You are either all in our out on this one.

You cannot say "my body my choice" and think it is "reasonable" to enforce mandatory vaccines while being "ok" with babies aborted at full term.

Pick a side.

Quote:

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If you think the # of people who die or have serious complications because of the vaccine will be less than the total # of deaths prevented you are out of your mind.

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Yes, absolutely. It will be a significant reduction in deaths, and it isn't really debatable based on the trials, and now real world data we are seeing. This will pay out more and more so shortly, as we trend toward 50-60% of the population vaccinated.

Quote:

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Using your logic everyone should get a flu shot, and any additional shot from the next "pandemic."

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I've done enough research on this to not equate it to the flu. We may be quickly turning it into the flu with the help of the vaccines, and even though I am against lockdowns, masks, etc., I can also meet in the middle and say that this is significantly worse than the flu.

If there is another pandemic, and hopefully there is not, and a vaccine comes out that is safe and effective that can save lives, yeah I'd get that one, too. If it didn't show to be very effective and there were more questions about safety, no, I wouldn't get it. That isn't the case with this one. You know, you can take each situation with the information as is and not make blanket statements firmly drawing a line one way or another without all the information at hand.

Quote:

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You are either all in our out on this one.

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Or you can find middle ground, and make what you consider a logical, sound choice. I'm not scared of the virus or the vaccine, and believe that the more that get the vaccine, the less overall deaths we have. And by quite a significant number. So it's an easy choice for me.

Quote:

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You cannot say "my body my choice" and think it is "reasonable" to enforce mandatory vaccines while being "ok" with babies aborted at full term.

Pick a side.

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LMAO, I'm firmly against mandating the vaccine. No idea where this is coming from.

mRNA vaccines(Moderna/Pfizer) are sections of messenger RNA in lipids, that facilitate entry into to human cell. Once inside the cell, our cells are enlisted to use our own metabolism to produce the COVID-19 spikes (the antigen). This antigen is released into our bodies resulting in an immune response. They require extremely cold storage under specific guidelines, but can be brought to refrigerated temperatures for a period of time (30 days) before use. I do not like the idea of a vaccine commandeering my cells to produce e antigen even though the mRNA does not enter the cell nucleus. The storage requirements are strict and the possibility of improper storage is possible and was a problem in he rollout as facilities didn't have proper storage equipment. I have not seen any information concerning the purity of mRNA vaccines and potential errors in coding of the RNA sequence. The amount of antigen produced should be dependent on the amount of mRNA entering our cells and our cells efficiency in producing the antigen, I haven't seen any studies on the variation in the amount of antigen produced and these effects.

The Johnson & Johnson vaccine is an adenovirus vaccine. A cold virus has had its DNA modified to produce the COVID spikes(antigen). The virus enters our cells and enlists our cells to produce the spikes which leave the cell and activate our immune response. Again, I don't like the idea of using our cells artificially to produce the antigen. I haven't seen any studies on the variation in the amount of antigen produced and these effects. Plus this is a genetically modified virus, people that harp on the dangers of GMOs(genetically modified organisms) and refuse to eat GMO corn willingly line up to have a GMO virus injected into their bodies.

That said, both these vaccines are most likely safe especially in healthy people.

But I plan on waiting for the Novavax vaccine. It is just a chunk of protein mimicking the COVID spike protein(antigen). It doesn't enter our cells it initiates our immune response all on its own. We would be getting a known amount of the protein(antigen) allowing our bodies to react. It doesn't have the strict storage temperature requirements the mRNA vaccines have and this type of vaccine has a long history of safety.

ETA: and the Novavax vaccine is less expensive, save our government and insurance money

What's your definition of "debilitating long term damage?"

The virus has been around since late 2019...I wouldn't say anyone can be drawing any conclusions on the long term effects of either the vaccine or the virus just yet...

Dad-O-Lot said:

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Through May and into June the rhetoric against those who choose not to vaccinate will increase.

By July, "anti-vaxxers" will be blamed for every case, fatality, and restriction still in place.

"If it wasn't for those damned anti -vaxxers, we'd be back to normal and unemployment would be down,
and the economy would be soaring....".

Just wait. Everything negative will be the fault of anti-vaxxers by August.

---

Well, if the virus is still a factor by August then it probably is the anti vaxxers fault. This is especially true if new variants emerge. Just like measles outbreaks at schools a few years back when far too many Karens refused to vaccinate their kids. Vaccines work. And we're on track to have most people fully vaccinated by around June 1.

I'm against mandatory vaccines, but if a huge number of people refuse to get vaccinated (and many of them are against masks and all other safety measures), then I wouldnt be surprised if covid is still around in late summer.

richardag said:

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mRNA vaccines(Moderna/Pfizer) are sections of messenger RNA in lipids, that facilitate entry into to human cell. Once inside the cell, our cells are enlisted to use our own metabolism to produce the COVID-19 spikes (the antigen). This antigen is released into our bodies resulting in an immune response. They require extremely cold storage under specific guidelines, but can be brought to refrigerated temperatures for a period of time (30 days) before use. I do not like the idea of a vaccine commandeering my cells to produce e antigen even though the mRNA does not enter the cell nucleus. The storage requirements are strict and the possibility of improper storage is possible and was a problem in he rollout as facilities didn't have proper storage equipment. I have not seen any information concerning the purity of mRNA vaccines and potential errors in coding of the RNA sequence. The amount of antigen produced should be dependent on the amount of mRNA entering our cells and our cells efficiency in producing the antigen, I haven't seen any studies on the variation in the amount of antigen produced and these effects.

The Johnson & Johnson vaccine is an adenovirus vaccine. A cold virus has had its DNA modified to produce the COVID spikes(antigen). The virus enters our cells and enlists our cells to produce the spikes which leave the cell and activate our immune response. Again, I don't like the idea of using our cells artificially to produce the antigen. I haven't seen any studies on the variation in the amount of antigen produced and these effects. Plus this is a genetically modified virus, people that harp on the dangers of GMOs(genetically modified organisms) and refuse to eat GMO corn willingly line up to have a GMO virus injected into their bodies.

That said, both these vaccines are most likely safe especially in healthy people.

But I plan on waiting for the Novavax vaccine. It is just a chunk of protein mimicking the COVID spike protein(antigen). It doesn't enter our cells it initiates our immune response all on its own. We would be getting a known amount of the protein(antigen) allowing our bodies to react. It doesn't have the strict storage temperature requirements the mRNA vaccines have and this type of vaccine has a long history of safety.

---

I agree with you.

mRNA is one of three technologies used for genetic manipulation.

1) mRNA can silence gene expression
2) CRISPR and TALENS can literally "punch out" genetic sequences.

mRNA has no need to enter into the nucleus to achieve its goals. The ribosome picks up the mRNA and then creates the desired protein.

larry culpepper said:

---

Dad-O-Lot said:

---

Through May and into June the rhetoric against those who choose not to vaccinate will increase.

By July, "anti-vaxxers" will be blamed for every case, fatality, and restriction still in place.

"If it wasn't for those damned anti -vaxxers, we'd be back to normal and unemployment would be down,
and the economy would be soaring....".

Just wait. Everything negative will be the fault of anti-vaxxers by August.

---

Well, if the virus is still a factor by August then it probably is the anti vaxxers fault. This is especially true if new variants emerge. Just like measles outbreaks at schools a few years back when far too many Karens refused to vaccinate their kids. Vaccines work. And we're on track to have most people fully vaccinated by around June 1.

I'm against mandatory vaccines, but if a huge number of people refuse to get vaccinated (and many of them are against masks and all other safety measures), then I wouldnt be surprised if covid is still around in late summer.

---

The vaccines don't work, but why does anyone care if COVID is still around? It's the flu in a different form. I've never understood all the hand-wringing.

"If the virus is 'still around' "

Already moving the goalposts two months in advance

Science disagrees with both of your statements.

larry culpepper said:

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Science disagrees with both of your statements.

---

Yet there's no evidence contradicting my statements.

larry culpepper said:

---

Dad-O-Lot said:

---

Through May and into June the rhetoric against those who choose not to vaccinate will increase.

By July, "anti-vaxxers" will be blamed for every case, fatality, and restriction still in place.

"If it wasn't for those damned anti -vaxxers, we'd be back to normal and unemployment would be down,
and the economy would be soaring....".

Just wait. Everything negative will be the fault of anti-vaxxers by August.

---

Well, if the virus is still a factor by August then it probably is the anti vaxxers fault.
<snip>
I wouldnt be surprised if covid is still around in late summer.

---

ta-daaaa!

See, it has already started.

Here's a secret -- "Covid" will never go away. It will always be with us, not unlike the flu, or the common cold.

However, unlike the cold and flu, there will be a movement to blame people who don't get vaccinated for the fact that it remains. Ignoring the fact that it is possible that the vaccine is only effective for a few months.

Meaning that those people who refuse to accept an injection of an unapproved, experimental vaccine will be blamed for the continuation of the virus that the vaccine apparently can't really get rid of either.

That's OK. As a middle class, white, conservative, Christian male, I am getting used to being the scapegoat for all worldly problems. I can handle it.

larry culpepper said:

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Science disagrees with both of your statements.

---

In an effort for all of to make a more well informed decision, I'd like to see this proof, this evidence, this 'science.'

Children aren't eligible for the vaccine and likely won't be for some time so there will literally by millions of us left unvaccinated. Are these children considered anti-vaxxers as well?

richardag said:

---

mRNA vaccines(Moderna/Pfizer) are sections of messenger RNA in lipids, that facilitate entry into to human cell. Once inside the cell, our cells are enlisted to use our own metabolism to produce the COVID-19 spikes (the antigen). This antigen is released into our bodies resulting in an immune response. They require extremely cold storage under specific guidelines, but can be brought to refrigerated temperatures for a period of time (30 days) before use. I do not like the idea of a vaccine commandeering my cells to produce e antigen even though the mRNA does not enter the cell nucleus. The storage requirements are strict and the possibility of improper storage is possible and was a problem in he rollout as facilities didn't have proper storage equipment. I have not seen any information concerning the purity of mRNA vaccines and potential errors in coding of the RNA sequence. The amount of antigen produced should be dependent on the amount of mRNA entering our cells and our cells efficiency in producing the antigen, I haven't seen any studies on the variation in the amount of antigen produced and these effects.

The Johnson & Johnson vaccine is an adenovirus vaccine. A cold virus has had its DNA modified to produce the COVID spikes(antigen). The virus enters our cells and enlists our cells to produce the spikes which leave the cell and activate our immune response. Again, I don't like the idea of using our cells artificially to produce the antigen. I haven't seen any studies on the variation in the amount of antigen produced and these effects. Plus this is a genetically modified virus, people that harp on the dangers of GMOs(genetically modified organisms) and refuse to eat GMO corn willingly line up to have a GMO virus injected into their bodies.

That said, both these vaccines are most likely safe especially in healthy people.

But I plan on waiting for the Novavax vaccine. It is just a chunk of protein mimicking the COVID spike protein(antigen). It doesn't enter our cells it initiates our immune response all on its own. We would be getting a known amount of the protein(antigen) allowing our bodies to react. It doesn't have the strict storage temperature requirements the mRNA vaccines have and this type of vaccine has a long history of safety.

ETA: and the Novavax vaccine is less expensive, save our government and insurance money

---

These are the types of post we need, detailed yet understandable to those with a basic understanding of biology. This gives us the ability to make informed decisions. My whole problem with all this are the lack of straight answers. Its why I rarely post on these types of threads. Lots of politics and little science.

Post like this solve those problems. Still I have several basic questions some of which you cant get straight answers for.

1. General Question ? How common is true reinfection? Which renders --> the question how long do anticovid-19 antibodies persist? on average.

2. Specific case facts:
My wife and I both had Covid in Feb 2021 with light symptoms temp 100f(max), duration 2 days. She had mild fatigue for 3 days. headache < 2 days. no day 8 to 10 day surge. Both of us mid 50's, athletic, healthy and we were rolling Zinc, Vit C,E,D. I had colds that were far worse. That said almost lost my 85 year old dad and my 62 y/o brother was positive and totally asymptomatic. Would love to know the details of variations in the immune responses. I assume my wife and I produced the anti bodies to beat back this thing.

Rambling questions.

A. Are my cell now, 'programmed' to rapidly produce anti-bodies ?
B. How long do said anti-bodies persist ?
C. Given recent infection and its defeat should I wait as late as possible to get a vaccine? Or do I need to worry about it ?
D. I am not a fan of having mRNA type vaccines. I like the old school approach better- see all other virus - Measles, Small Pox, etc beat the old school way. Looking at Novavax approach. When will it be available.

Maybe others have been in my shoes. I just want the truth no political junk in the mix.

tysker said:

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larry culpepper said:

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Science disagrees with both of your statements.

---

In an effort for all of to make a more well informed decision, I'd like to see this proof, this evidence, this 'science.'

Children aren't eligible for the vaccine and likely won't be for some time so there will literally by millions of us left unvaccinated. Are these children considered anti-vaxxers as well?

---

When I see a lib post about science without presenting any, I laugh and dismiss the post.

ttu_85 said:

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These are the types of post we need, detailed yet understandable to those with a basic understanding of biology. This gives us the ability to make informed decisions. My whole problem with all this are the lack of straight answers. Its why I rarely post on these types of threads. Lots of politics and little science.

Post like this solve those problems. Still I have several basic questions some of which you cant get straight answers for.

1. General Question ? How common is true reinfection? Which renders --> the question how long do anticovid-19 antibodies persist? on average.

2. Specific case facts:
My wife and I both had Covid in Feb 2021 with light symptoms temp 100f(max), duration 2 days. She had mild fatigue for 3 days. headache < 2 days. no day 8 to 10 day surge. Both of us mid 50's, athletic, healthy and we were rolling Zinc, Vit C,E,D. I had colds that were far worse. That said almost lost my 85 year old dad and my 62 y/o brother was positive and totally asymptomatic. Would love to know the details of variations in the immune responses. I assume my wife and I produced the anti bodies to beat back this thing.

Rambling questions.

A. Are my cell now, 'programmed' to rapidly produce anti-bodies ?
B. How long do said anti-bodies persist ?
C. Given recent infection and its defeat should I wait as late as possible to get a vaccine? Or do I need to worry about it ?
D. I am not a fan of having mRNA type vaccines. I like the old school approach better- see all other virus - Measles, Small Pox, etc beat the old school way. Looking at Novavax approach. When will it be available.

Maybe others have been in my shoes. I just want the truth no political junk in the mix.

---

There are several good discussions on whether the recovered should get a vaccine and if so when - I've seen it discussed here and on the covid board. Scientists do not seem to be willing, as a whole, to make statements about durable immunity. However it appears reinfection is very rare, and there is evidence of durable immunity.

There is a free antibody study in Texas if you are curious about your own situation.
https://sph.uth.edu/projects/texascares/
Opinions vary but I am choosing to wait as I had covid in December and have antibodies.

A lot of what is missed is those of us who have had covid already. I dont need the vaccine, at least not right now. Doesn't make me an anti vaxxer, just means I dont need it. Also means, I dont need to wear a mask, because I dont need it and you don't need me to wear it. I am glad that people are getting the jab, my parents were on the fence on getting the vaccine, but got the j&j last week and I am happy they got it.

88planoAg said:

---

ttu_85 said:

---

These are the types of post we need, detailed yet understandable to those with a basic understanding of biology. This gives us the ability to make informed decisions. My whole problem with all this are the lack of straight answers. Its why I rarely post on these types of threads. Lots of politics and little science.

Post like this solve those problems. Still I have several basic questions some of which you cant get straight answers for.

1. General Question ? How common is true reinfection? Which renders --> the question how long do anticovid-19 antibodies persist? on average.

2. Specific case facts:
My wife and I both had Covid in Feb 2021 with light symptoms temp 100f(max), duration 2 days. She had mild fatigue for 3 days. headache < 2 days. no day 8 to 10 day surge. Both of us mid 50's, athletic, healthy and we were rolling Zinc, Vit C,E,D. I had colds that were far worse. That said almost lost my 85 year old dad and my 62 y/o brother was positive and totally asymptomatic. Would love to know the details of variations in the immune responses. I assume my wife and I produced the anti bodies to beat back this thing.

Rambling questions.

A. Are my cell now, 'programmed' to rapidly produce anti-bodies ?
B. How long do said anti-bodies persist ?
C. Given recent infection and its defeat should I wait as late as possible to get a vaccine? Or do I need to worry about it ?
D. I am not a fan of having mRNA type vaccines. I like the old school approach better- see all other virus - Measles, Small Pox, etc beat the old school way. Looking at Novavax approach. When will it be available.

Maybe others have been in my shoes. I just want the truth no political junk in the mix.

---

There are several good discussions on whether the recovered should get a vaccine and if so when - I've seen it discussed here and on the covid board. Scientists do not seem to be willing, as a whole, to make statements about durable immunity. However it appears reinfection is very rare, and there is evidence of durable immunity.

There is a free antibody study in Texas if you are curious about your own situation.
https://sph.uth.edu/projects/texascares/
Opinions vary but I am choosing to wait as I had covid in December and have antibodies.

---

Thanks appreciate the post and your time.

I can't answer your questions, which are very relevant, concerning reinfection, length of resistance, etc. The current vaccines have only been on the market a few months with trials started last year so I am not sure anyone can accurately predict the resilience of our immunity to reinfection, especially as the virus mutates.

Novavax's vaccine may be approved in May according to news reports.
https://www.foxnews.com/health/novavax-covid-19-vaccine-could-see-approval-by-may-ceo-says

Not sure when it would be available in the US, but apparently Novavax has agreements with an Indian company that has very large manufacturing capacity.

I am not an expert, but have just been reading some published materials.

larry culpepper said:

---

Dad-O-Lot said:

---

Through May and into June the rhetoric against those who choose not to vaccinate will increase.

By July, "anti-vaxxers" will be blamed for every case, fatality, and restriction still in place.

"If it wasn't for those damned anti -vaxxers, we'd be back to normal and unemployment would be down,
and the economy would be soaring....".

Just wait. Everything negative will be the fault of anti-vaxxers by August.

---

Well, if the virus is still a factor by August then it probably is the anti vaxxers fault. This is especially true if new variants emerge. Just like measles outbreaks at schools a few years back when far too many Karens refused to vaccinate their kids. Vaccines work. And we're on track to have most people fully vaccinated by around June 1.

I'm against mandatory vaccines, but if a huge number of people refuse to get vaccinated (and many of them are against masks and all other safety measures), then I wouldnt be surprised if covid is still around in late summer.

---

Nice bump. I look forward to Larry's update on this post in light of Israel's results.

Why is it that all the Covid conspiracy theories end up being true? It's almost like emotions and "settled science" are no way base life decisions.

beerad12man said:

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And they are absolutely vaccines, and not experimental gene therapy.

Quote:

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and a pretty good risk they will lead to autoimmune disorders down the road.

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Also, this is complete an utter garbage. Extremely unlikely. Far less likely than any debilitating damage done from covid even for a young person. Where do you guys get this crap that is just completely false?

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Still completely false? Based on the video posted here yesterday I'm curious how confident you still are about this?

RIP to all the dead people from this post

larry culpepper said:

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Science disagrees with both of your statements.

---

Well, turns out the 'science' was wrong.