GM to sell only electric vehicles by 2035

15,105 Views | 200 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by BTHOB-98
Red Red Wine
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3:40p, 1/28/21
AG
Hey geniuses!

Where do all of the materials that make the cars come from? OIL

Where does all of the energy to power these cars come from? OIL (and natural gas)

Edit to add: Windpower and solar don't work ask California and the rolling blackouts from last summer. There is NEW nuclear technology that may prove to be the savior for energy so let's see how that plays out in the coming years before declaring Oil and Gas a dead industry.

We don't have infrastructure to support 300 million cars plugging in to a grid to recharge. You will blow every transformer from here to Alaska and Maine to smithereens. Plus, oil and its derivatives (aka plastics) are the majority of the components in all walks of life from your toothbrush to your mattress to your car.

Edit 2: Forgot to add that all of the mineral mining needed to create the batteries for this many cars is ASTRONOMICAL in terms of air emissions. Talking massive trucks and excavators and refining ops that will pour out more CO2 than we do today - book it.

Edit 3: Dead batteries. We still have ZERO technology to do something with all of the dead batteries piling up in somebody's back yard. (Yes, I know a solution will eventually be found - but who is going to pay for that cost? - YOU ARE that's who.).

Edit 4: How many people making under $100K a year will be able to afford an EV by the year 2035? And can the govt FORCE YOU to buy something (aka ObamaCare).

Why don't you go get EDUCATED first then talk about how easy or great it will be to off of Oil in 10 years.

Good lord. The dumbness on here is ridiculous.
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chimpanzee
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In reply to richardag • 3:43p, 1/28/21
richardag said:
chimpanzee said:
Signel said:
By 2035, the battery technology should be strong enough to support 1000+ miles a charge. I don't see why this is much of a big deal.

If there were a way to know that for certain, and how supply chains and infrastructure could support it, it would be a gigantic deal. As in impossibly gigantic. Even over 20 years, the capital expenditures required to construct as electric and reliably charge the cars on the road today would soak up an almost unfathomable amount of investment for a money losing project.

If anyone right now knows how to make a battery that could support a 1000 mile range in a commercially self supporting product, they would be a trillionaire. The richest guy in the world makes one with a 400 mile EPA range (more like 270 at highway speed) and is losing money selling as many as he can make at $80k a pop. He sometimes makes a profit on the emission credits he sells to companies like GM.

Electric cars require someone else to pay for it and no business model shows otherwise, tech advancements may turn the corner someday, but the Tesla Model S has been around for nearly a decade and hasn't approached the kind of leaps in range performance that would be required to get near 1000 miles.
+ 1000.
The first thing a sane government would do would be discontinue the $7500 tax credit per car (I believe this is for the first 200,000 cars). I do not want to pay for someone else's $70,000 car, if they can afford $70,000 they sure as hell can affford $77,500.
My cynical view is that GM has to be a political organ more than car company. If they are going to make a traditional profit, it's going to be on Trucks/SUV's, but that will just get soaked up by the unions. They are looking at Tesla and knowing that they have way more design, manufacturing, supply chain, distribution and sales experience and have decided to try and beat Musk at the government gravy train game.
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eric76
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3:44p, 1/28/21
AG
So how far can an electric pickup pull a loaded horse trailer before the battery runs down?
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Not a Bot
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3:45p, 1/28/21
AG
Batteries based on sodium, not lithium, will likely be the future. They can recharge much faster, similar to how fast it takes two fill up your car with gas. The guy who invented the lithium ion battery has a design published. It will be a question of getting the technology to market.
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Red Red Wine
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In reply to eric76 • 3:45p, 1/28/21
AG
Depends. How many horses in the trailer!?
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LRHF
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In reply to Red Red Wine • 3:46p, 1/28/21
AG
Red Red Wine said:
Depends. How many horses in the trailer!?


Let's go with 2 horse that are 16 hands
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P.U.T.U
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In reply to Not a Bot • 3:47p, 1/28/21
AG
Cactus Jack said:
Batteries based on sodium, not lithium, will likely be the future. They can recharge much faster, similar to how fast it takes two fill up your car with gas. The guy who invented the lithium ion battery has a design published. It will be a question of getting the technology to market.
Those are still a few years in the future, lithium titanate is the next step but at this point does cost a lot more.
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Not a Bot
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3:48p, 1/28/21
AG
I also think individual car ownership will be way down in the future, even for people who live in rural areas. Self-driving taxi services will be all over the place. At some point you will be able to arrange for a car to be at your house at a certain time, get in and have it drive you wherever you need to go. Will probably be subscription-based.
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chimpanzee
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In reply to eric76 • 3:48p, 1/28/21
eric76 said:
So how far can an electric pickup pull a loaded horse trailer before the battery runs down?
As soon as someone makes one, we'll find out.

The best Tesla sedan has a ~270 mile range at highway speeds (EPA rated for ~400, but you lose ~30% of that at a 75 mph cruise). If a truck could match the sedan's range and loses another 25% of its efficiency from towing, you're looking at maybe 200 miles.
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Pookers
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In reply to JamesE4 • 3:49p, 1/28/21
AG
JamesE4 said:
Pookers said:
Shanked Punt said:
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/28/general-motors-plans-to-exclusively-offer-electric-vehicles-by-2035.html

This is great news all around, though hopefully they can bring in the deadline yet another five years or so. Its now time to get all the infrastructure in place. This can't come soon enough to help greatly reduce our dependency on oil.


Quote:

DETROIT General Motors wants to end production of all diesel- and gasoline-powered cars, trucks and SUVs by 2035 and shift its entire new fleet to electric vehicles as part of a broader plan to become carbon neutral by 2040, the company said Thursday.

The company plans to use 100% renewable energy to power its U.S. facilities by 2030 and global facilities by 2035 five years ahead of a previously announced goal.
What kind of power plants will we produce to get the required electricity to charge the batteries? Solar and Wind are not suitable for stable base loads.
Nuclear is the best option, supplemented by hydro, wind & solar, with combined cycle natural gas and CO2 capture as back-up.
Thorium Salt reactors are the obvious answer since the fusion tech that's likely being sequestered by the powers that be aren't an option.

Of course, the goal is just money laundering via climate change policies and not to actually save the world so this whole discussion is rather dumb.
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AgNav93
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3:50p, 1/28/21
AG
I'll bet my left nut this doesn't happen by 2035. But, I wouldn't expect anything less from Government Motors.
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Red Red Wine
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In reply to LRHF • 3:51p, 1/28/21
AG
Ford ain't sayin.....

They aren't claiming any mileage records pulling a trailer. The 300 mile estimate is probably the "no load" mileage. So not great.
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Red Red Wine
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In reply to AgNav93 • 3:51p, 1/28/21
AG
You can bet them both.

This may happen by 2050 or 2060, but no where near 2035.
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amercer
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3:53p, 1/28/21
AG
You guys are all looking at this from some political angle (which, yes this is the politics board), but think about the CEO of GM. He's head of a big legacy manufacturer, and his goal in life is to get the stock price up. He looks across the way and sees a niche electric car maker who's stock is worth ten times his...
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chimpanzee
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In reply to Pookers • 3:55p, 1/28/21
Pookers said:


Thorium Salt reactors are the obvious answer since the fusion tech that's likely being sequestered by the powers that be aren't an option.

Of course, the goal is just money laundering via climate change policies and not to actually save the world so this whole discussion is rather dumb.


People need to ask what exactly are we supposed to be getting for this, even by the "climate crisis" crowds own playbook. Go back to whatever climate model you want and remove the CO2 from the vehicle fleet and run it through whatever model you like, and the difference is zilch.

The reduction in CO2 has become virtuous for its own sake for people that lack another religion. They think they are healing the world forgetting that it will some day freeze over with glaciers again regardless of what we do.
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hbtheduce
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In reply to amercer • 3:58p, 1/28/21
AG
amercer said:
You guys are all looking at this from some political angle (which, yes this is the politics board), but think about the CEO of GM. He's head of a big legacy manufacturer, and his goal in life is to get the stock price up. He looks across the way and sees a niche electric car maker who's stock is worth ten times his...

Possible, except you don't even know the CEOs name. You know the name Elon Musk.
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eric76
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In reply to amercer • 3:58p, 1/28/21
AG
amercer said:
You guys are all looking at this from some political angle (which, yes this is the politics board), but think about the CEO of GM. He's head of a big legacy manufacturer, and his goal in life is to get the stock price up. He looks across the way and sees a niche electric car maker who's stock is worth ten times his...
And with a total valuation that is more than 1,000 times its profits.
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eric76
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In reply to chimpanzee • 4:01p, 1/28/21
AG
chimpanzee said:
eric76 said:
So how far can an electric pickup pull a loaded horse trailer before the battery runs down?
As soon as someone makes one, we'll find out.

The best Tesla sedan has a ~270 mile range at highway speeds (EPA rated for ~400, but you lose ~30% of that at a 75 mph cruise). If a truck could match the sedan's range and loses another 25% of its efficiency from towing, you're looking at maybe 200 miles.
It would be much worse in hills since it would have much more than it's own weight to drag up the hill.

Maybe everyone needs to start riding shetland ponies so that they have smaller horses and smaller trailers.
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chimpanzee
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In reply to eric76 • 4:03p, 1/28/21
eric76 said:
amercer said:
You guys are all looking at this from some political angle (which, yes this is the politics board), but think about the CEO of GM. He's head of a big legacy manufacturer, and his goal in life is to get the stock price up. He looks across the way and sees a niche electric car maker who's stock is worth ten times his...
And who's total valuation is more than 1,000 times its earnings!
That's what they're going for. They can't make money or attract investment building cars, they want to build whatever they must to get themselves closer to the front of the gravy train., that's what the "market" values these days, access to .gov protection rackets.
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munch96
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In reply to eric76 • 4:03p, 1/28/21
AG
eric76 said:
chimpanzee said:
eric76 said:
So how far can an electric pickup pull a loaded horse trailer before the battery runs down?
As soon as someone makes one, we'll find out.

The best Tesla sedan has a ~270 mile range at highway speeds (EPA rated for ~400, but you lose ~30% of that at a 75 mph cruise). If a truck could match the sedan's range and loses another 25% of its efficiency from towing, you're looking at maybe 200 miles.
It would be much worse in hills since it would have much more than it's own weight to drag up the hill.

Maybe everyone needs to start riding shetland ponies so that they have smaller horses and smaller trailers.
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Pookers
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In reply to chimpanzee • 4:05p, 1/28/21
AG
chimpanzee said:
Pookers said:


Thorium Salt reactors are the obvious answer since the fusion tech that's likely being sequestered by the powers that be aren't an option.

Of course, the goal is just money laundering via climate change policies and not to actually save the world so this whole discussion is rather dumb.


People need to ask what exactly are we supposed to be getting for this, even by the "climate crisis" crowds own playbook. Go back to whatever climate model you want and remove the CO2 from the vehicle fleet and run it through whatever model you like, and the difference is zilch.

The reduction in CO2 has become virtuous for its own sake for people that lack another religion. They think they are healing the world forgetting that it will some day freeze over with glaciers again regardless of what we do.
Climate Change is one of the greatest PsyOps ever deployed; its forced upon us from every avenue in life so its difficult to see its all bull***** The powers that be use the fear generated from the "cLiMaTe CrIsIs" to funnel money between pet corporations, increase the cost of living for the middle and lower classes, and keep us in debt because we are constantly having to purchase new **** to be "climate aware" and lower our "footprint". Its rather pathetic people fall for this *****
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MaxPower
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4:10p, 1/28/21
I think battery levels right now are acceptable. Increasing infrastructure for charging and decreasing charge time are really what's needed.

The bigger problem is where the energy comes from to make the vehicles and power them. Solar and wind can help some but will never replace something as dependable as natural gas or coal power plants. We need serious investment in nuclear if our main concern is carbon emissions. Yet no one is pointing out the obvious.
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Central Committee
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4:16p, 1/28/21
AG
Unless we find more rare earth minerals, there are not enough inputs to make that many car batteries.

I love the libs: wind and solar power only (no nukes), which cannot provide enough energy to power all our homes much less cars.

Living on academic dreams and unicorn farts is the Dems way of life.
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Owlagdad
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4:18p, 1/28/21
LOL, in the mean time China does what the eff they want o. Will OP try to clean them up?
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jja79
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In reply to LRHF • 4:28p, 1/28/21
AG
LRHF said:
Red Red Wine said:
Depends. How many horses in the trailer!?


Let's go with 2 horse that are 16 hands
Are they saddled?

I think Pelosi's son is in the lithium space so that's possibly worth noting.
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Barnyard96
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4:30p, 1/28/21
AG
I am still waiting for liberal to tell me what materials will be used to manufacture green energy technology.
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rab79
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In reply to Shanked Punt • 4:41p, 1/28/21
AG
Shanked Punt said:
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/28/general-motors-plans-to-exclusively-offer-electric-vehicles-by-2035.html

This is great news all around, though hopefully they can bring in the deadline yet another five years or so. Its now time to get all the infrastructure in place. This can't come soon enough to help greatly reduce our dependency on oil.


Quote:

DETROIT General Motors wants to end production of all diesel- and gasoline-powered cars, trucks and SUVs by 2035 and shift its entire new fleet to electric vehicles as part of a broader plan to become carbon neutral by 2040, the company said Thursday.

The company plans to use 100% renewable energy to power its U.S. facilities by 2030 and global facilities by 2035 five years ahead of a previously announced goal.
ha e you shorted gmc yet?
NO AMNESTY!

in order for democrats, liberals, progressives et al to continue their illogical belief systems they have to pretend not to know a lot of things; by pretending "not to know" there is no guilt, no actual connection to conscience. Denial of truth allows easier trespass.
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one MEEN Ag
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In reply to Not a Bot • 5:16p, 1/28/21
AG
Cactus Jack said:
Batteries based on sodium, not lithium, will likely be the future. They can recharge much faster, similar to how fast it takes two fill up your car with gas. The guy who invented the lithium ion battery has a design published. It will be a question of getting the technology to market.
Goodenough at tu has said it'll replace lithium? (thats the guy you're talking about by the way)

The research I've read is focused on moving from lithium ion to pure lithium so you get 3x the energy density, but I bet you're going to have slower charging times because of dendrites (why the went li ion in the first place).

Based on raw electronegativity, Na is not much lower than Li, but it is going to be significantly heavier in atomic mass.

The future for batteries that move will be pure lithium based. The future for nonmoving batteries will not.

Source: Grad School.
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bgrimm05
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5:19p, 1/28/21
AG
I hear infinity stones are a good source of power. We should just grab a couple of those.
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angus55
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In reply to Shanked Punt • 5:42p, 1/28/21
Shanked Punt said:
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/28/general-motors-plans-to-exclusively-offer-electric-vehicles-by-2035.html

This is great news all around, though hopefully they can bring in the deadline yet another five years or so. Its now time to get all the infrastructure in place. This can't come soon enough to help greatly reduce our dependency on oil.


Quote:

DETROIT General Motors wants to end production of all diesel- and gasoline-powered cars, trucks and SUVs by 2035 and shift its entire new fleet to electric vehicles as part of a broader plan to become carbon neutral by 2040, the company said Thursday.

The company plans to use 100% renewable energy to power its U.S. facilities by 2030 and global facilities by 2035 five years ahead of a previously announced goal.


This is almost as stupid as the OP
We'll win this war, but we'll win it only by fighting and by showing the Germans that we've got more guts than they have, or ever will have. We're not going to just shoot the sons-of-b******, were going to rip out their living G*******d guts and use them to grease the treads of our tanks. We're going to murder those lousy Hun c********** by the bushel-f****** basket. War is a bloody killing business. You've got to spill their blood or they will spill yours. Rip them up the belly. Shot them in the guts.
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chimpanzee
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In reply to munch96 • 5:42p, 1/28/21
munch96 said:
eric76 said:
chimpanzee said:
eric76 said:
So how far can an electric pickup pull a loaded horse trailer before the battery runs down?
As soon as someone makes one, we'll find out.

The best Tesla sedan has a ~270 mile range at highway speeds (EPA rated for ~400, but you lose ~30% of that at a 75 mph cruise). If a truck could match the sedan's range and loses another 25% of its efficiency from towing, you're looking at maybe 200 miles.
It would be much worse in hills since it would have much more than it's own weight to drag up the hill.

Maybe everyone needs to start riding shetland ponies so that they have smaller horses and smaller trailers.


Watched another video those guys did with a 4500lb trailer, and it used 1% battery per mile. So, much worse than I estimated.
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Viper16
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In reply to Shanked Punt • 5:46p, 1/28/21
AG
Shanked Punt said:
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/28/general-motors-plans-to-exclusively-offer-electric-vehicles-by-2035.html

This is great news all around, though hopefully they can bring in the deadline yet another five years or so. Its now time to get all the infrastructure in place. This can't come soon enough to help greatly reduce our dependency on oil.


Quote:

DETROIT General Motors wants to end production of all diesel- and gasoline-powered cars, trucks and SUVs by 2035 and shift its entire new fleet to electric vehicles as part of a broader plan to become carbon neutral by 2040, the company said Thursday.

The company plans to use 100% renewable energy to power its U.S. facilities by 2030 and global facilities by 2035 five years ahead of a previously announced goal.
Ain't gonna happen!

LOL
Lex Talionis.......Ordo Seclorum
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rsemingson
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5:48p, 1/28/21
And when the sun sets and wind stops blowing what produces electricity? Say oil, gas nukes and coal? Oh, and does anyone want to fly on electric airplanes?
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Barnyard96
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5:53p, 1/28/21
AG


Its not that complicated.
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lb3
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In reply to MouthBQ98 • 5:54p, 1/28/21
AG
MouthBQ98 said:
We don't have enough lithium. We simply don't.
Lithium is quite abundant. Our reserves are low because we simply haven't really invested any resources in developing it here.

The rare earths aren't really even an issue if we are willing to strip mine all of the Mojave and parts of the RGV.
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