Did it happen?

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We quickly learned fraud is icky, unsightly, uncomfortable and those with a vested interest in not finding it, because they couldn't, denied it. Happens all the time.

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Hasn't the video of the suitcases of ballots been debunked as not exactly what it seems? As in, it was actually all OK ?

It has been suggested there could be a plausible explanation for the activity as theoretically post-examined and sorted ballot counting, but there is still zero accountability and the persons who should have been present on site to authenticate were no longer present.

agracer said:

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Hasn't the video of the suitcases of ballots been debunked as not exactly what it seems? As in, it was actually all OK ?

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That was one excuse, now do the boarded up windows, uncreased mail in ballots, 95% biden votes, one vote ballots, switched votes.....

agracer said:

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Hasn't the video of the suitcases of ballots been debunked as not exactly what it seems? As in, it was actually all OK ?

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What about the stopping the count at 10 at night while Trump was ahead and the 99% ballot dump for Biden at 5am?
What about the boarding up of windows while the count was going on?
What about the fact that polling places didn't allow Republican watchers to watch the count?
What about the 120,000 adjudicated ballots?
Should I go on?

The election official went on record under oath the ballots that had been packed into suitcases where those absentee ballot carriers by the workers in the plain view of the monitors and the press. The reason the workers packed the ballots is they thought they were stopping for the day, Sterling said. The reason they stopped was the false water main leak.

I believe there was fraud now to the leave of what degree we will never know. Trump had a lot of signed affidavits, State/Federal courts changing voting laws in States but no authority to do so cause that comes from State Legislation. Most of the courts State, federal and Supreme Court all punted on a lot of these cases.

Also congress should have invested the claims so that way the next election these issues don't happen.

No need to go on on because, well, the government and election officials said "nuh uh" and that should be enough for everyone.

agracer said:

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Hasn't the video of the suitcases of ballots been debunked as not exactly what it seems? As in, it was actually all OK ?

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of course. just like the millions of dollars Hunter Biden "earned" from his parters in Ukraine, Russia, Khazakstan, and China that Joe had no idea about and nothing to do with. every time a dem says something has been debunked, then obviously that means it's been debunked. no need to look any further. no need for proof or evidence, because they said so. there. debunked.

All you pointing out the other crap that went on, great. I wasn't asking about that. I was asking about the ballots in "suitcases" under the table. I thought it had been explained and was asking.

If 'suitcase' thing was all on the up and up, then inserting that tidbit into the original article actually hurts the article.

It's like saying you hate Trump and one of the reason's is the "find people" comment. If you're going to be dishonest about that well know lie, then why should I believe any other reasons you list for not liking the man.

FTR, I realize all the other crap that occurred does indeed point to a lot of fraud happened. If we had a real media in this country, they'd be pounding the table with it 24/7 until every last issue was shown to be OK, or was in fact fraud. But we don't and the powers that be obviously aren't interested in learning the truth.

MouthBQ98 said:

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It has been suggested there could be a plausible explanation for the activity as theoretically post-examined and sorted ballot counting, but there is still zero accountability and the persons who should have been present on site to authenticate were no longer present.

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OK, thanks for clearing that up. I haven't followed a lot of the issues as much as some folks have.

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FTR, I realize all the other crap that occurred does indeed point to a lot of fraud happened. If we had a real media in this country, they'd be pounding the table with it 24/7 until every last issue was shown to be OK, or was in fact fraud. But we don't and the powers that be obviously aren't interested in learning the truth.

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That and the punitive and repressive measures that the new regime is taking that favors only the elite is why the November 2020 election will never be believed.

agracer said:

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All you pointing out the other crap that went on, great. I wasn't asking about that. I was asking about the ballots in "suitcases" under the table. I thought it had been explained and was asking.

If 'suitcase' thing was all on the up and up, then inserting that tidbit into the original article actually hurts the article.

It's like saying you hate Trump and one of the reason's is the "find people" comment. If you're going to be dishonest about that well know lie, then why should I believe any other reasons you list for not liking the man.

FTR, I realize all the other crap that occurred does indeed point to a lot of fraud happened. If we had a real media in this country, they'd be pounding the table with it 24/7 until every last issue was shown to be OK, or was in fact fraud. But we don't and the powers that be obviously aren't interested in learning the truth.

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I'm just going from memory, but I seem to remember the explanation regarding the suitcases was from 'election officials' and the FBI who had access to the 'full tape'. Yet, I never saw where that tape was released to the public.

Ultimately, like in other instances, I think it was a case of "we looked at it, and there's nothing to see here."

The problem remains, though, that the WE in that sentence have a tremendous credibility problem.

agracer said:

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Hasn't the video of the suitcases of ballots been debunked as not exactly what it seems? As in, it was actually all OK ?

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Putting ballots in suitcases is not okay.

agracer said:

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Hasn't the video of the suitcases of ballots been debunked as not exactly what it seems? As in, it was actually all OK ?

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No

This basically correct outside the election official Mr. Sterling went under oath like I mentioned in my previous post that the reason they were in suit cases and packed away is because they were under the impression that they were getting to go home due to the water main leak, which turned out to be a lie as was no water main leak.

So basically Mr. Sterling's testimony was good enough in their minds it was debunked. They didn't even do a true audit in Georgia. What's funny is all the affidavits trump had plus some had video/paper documents went ignored and never saw the light of day.

They cheated.
They'll cheat again.
They are criminals.

And those that support them are scum.

BurnetAggie99 said:

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This basically correct outside the election official Mr. Sterling went under oath like I mentioned in my previous post that the reason they were in suit cases and packed away is because they were under the impression that they were getting to go home due to the water main leak, which turned out to be a lie as was no water main leak.

So basically Mr. Sterling's testimony was good enough in their minds it was debunked. They didn't even do a true audit in Georgia. What's funny is all the affidavits trump had plus some had video/paper documents went ignored and never saw the light of day.

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Yep. Stopping all counting, packing up ballots in suitcases, sending observers and most poll workers home - all because of a fake water main burst.. Then a week later after video is leaked of suitcases being unpacked under a table and counted in the middle of the night -- it's all okay! An election official swore that it was fine. There! It's been debunked! And now, anyone who questions election integrity in Atlanta must be a white supremacist. Look, even a judge threw out a case and no one in Georgia would do a signature audit. Therefore, obviously no fraud, whatsoever. Everything was on the up and up. Most secure election ever.

If 2020 has taught me anything it's that you won't find fraud if you are willing to turn a blind eye to any and all evidence.

2020 has also taught me that people will find racism in everything even if they have to make it up.

Here is where liberals and Never Trumpers p*ss me off.

At the absolute very least...there was an overall appearance of a very shady and corrupt election. From the tote bags coming out at wee hours with almost no witnesses, to boarding up windows, to republican observers being escorted or blocked out, to weird "glitches" on live TV reversing counts in favor of one candidate, to counting in multiple swing states just stopping at midnight...only to have the results flip flopped by morning. Oh, and the countless sworn affidavits claiming observance of fraud.

Just imagine for a second that all of this (and more) happened to the left. It is hard to fathom the backlash, outcry, violence and chaos that would be plaguing this nation in numerous cities. The media would have been going apesh**. Absolute apesh**. The WORLD media and population would have accused Trump of Hugo Chavez tactics.

At the absolute very least, the appearance of this election s awful. So bad that I cannot blame a single person for thinking it was fraudulent as all get out.

This was the perfect storm for dems, with COVID being the perfect scenario. What other event, aside from a drawn out pandemic would have prompted most states to resort to mail in ballots on this scale?

I will NEVER believe this was a fair election. I don't care what anyone says.

How is finding the truth not the responsibility and duty of every government employee and politician. It shouldn't require judges to reconcile the questions. Our government does not serve us..

oh no said:

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BurnetAggie99 said:

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This basically correct outside the election official Mr. Sterling went under oath like I mentioned in my previous post that the reason they were in suit cases and packed away is because they were under the impression that they were getting to go home due to the water main leak, which turned out to be a lie as was no water main leak.

So basically Mr. Sterling's testimony was good enough in their minds it was debunked. They didn't even do a true audit in Georgia. What's funny is all the affidavits trump had plus some had video/paper documents went ignored and never saw the light of day.

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Yep. Stopping all counting, packing up ballots in suitcases, sending observers and most poll workers home - all because of a fake water main burst.. Then a week later after video is leaked of suitcases being unpacked under a table and counted in the middle of the night -- it's all okay! An election official swore that it was fine. There! It's been debunked! And now, anyone who questions election integrity in Atlanta must be a white supremacist. Look, even a judge threw out a case and no one in Georgia would do a signature audit. Therefore, obviously no fraud, whatsoever. Everything was on the up and up. Most secure election ever.

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Here's the problem with anything Gabe Sterling says as a "state election official" is that implies he is an employee of the state. He is not. He's an independent contractor as of 2019. Raised his annual pay from $142K to $200K per year in the process. Further as an indy, he can work for other entities.

Further there were shady issues before that.

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When Gov. Brian Kemp hired an election company's lobbyist this month, the move raised alarm bells about one company's influence on Georgia's upcoming purchase of a new statewide voting system.

Concerns from government accountability advocates only grew days later, when a commission created by Kemp recommended that the state buy the type of voting machines sold by the lobbyist's company, Election Systems & Software. Several other vendors also offer similar voting machines.

Then Kemp proposed spending $150 million on a new statewide voting system, an amount that matches estimates for the cost of the system promoted by ES&S, called ballot-marking devices, which use a combination of touchscreens and ballot printers.

The latest moves fueled suspicions that cozy connections between lobbyists, Kemp and other elected officials will lead to ES&S winning a rich contract to sell its computerized voting products to the state government, even though 55 percent of Georgia voters said in a poll by The Atlanta Journal-Constitution this month that they prefer a cheaper system where paper ballots are filled in by voters.

After Kemp faced allegations from his opponent, Democrat Stacey Abrams, that he used his position as Georgia's secretary of state to run an unfair election for governor last year, he's now being accused of tilting the procurement of voting machines toward ES&S, which is the state's current election company.

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Election security advocates, including the only cybersecurity expert on Kemp's voting system commission, want the state government to move to paper ballots bubbled in by hand and counted by optical scanning machines, saying they're less expensive and more accountable. By comparison, the machines recommended by a majority of the commission require voters to use touchscreens to make their selections and then insert their printed ballots into scanning machines.

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Kemp and Georgia election officials have supported ES&S for about 10 years:

• The ES&S lobbyist, former state Rep. Chuck Harper, now serves as Kemp's deputy chief of staff. Prior to lobbying for ES&S, Harper was a lobbyist for the Georgia Secretary of State's Office under Kemp from 2012 to 2017.
• Kemp's new executive counsel, David Dove, was a member of ES&S' advisory board when he attended a Las Vegas conference hosted by the company in March 2017. Dove served as Kemp's chief of staff when he was secretary of state.
• Kemp chose ES&S' voting system for a test run during a Conyers election in November 2017.
• ES&S is Georgia's current election company, responsible for providing technical support and repairs of the state's 27,000 direct-recording electronic voting machines, which the state originally purchased for $54 million from Diebold Election Systems in 2002.

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"The lobbyists are very powerful, and they are advocating machines that make it impossible for voters to verify their ballots," said Garland Favorito, who founded a group called Voter GA to seek secure elections. "The worst ballot-marking devices have the most powerful lobbyists."

Along with the lobbyists, elected officials have lined up to support the kind of ballot-marking devices sold by ES&S. The company also offers a hand-marked paper ballot voting system, according to its response to the state's request for information last fall.

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Georgia's government has a history of tailoring state laws to accommodate a single election vendor.

Before Georgia voters used the state's electronic voting machines for the first time in 2002, the General Assembly changed a state law requiring an independent audit trail of each vote cast. Lifting that requirement paved the way for the state to buy Diebold's voting machines, which lacked a paper trail to back up electronic vote counts.

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Georgia Republicans are not clean in all of this, not by a long shot.

AJC January 31, 2019

agracer said:

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All you pointing out the other crap that went on, great. I wasn't asking about that. I was asking about the ballots in "suitcases" under the table. I thought it had been explained and was asking.

If 'suitcase' thing was all on the up and up, then inserting that tidbit into the original article actually hurts the article.

It's like saying you hate Trump and one of the reason's is the "find people" comment. If you're going to be dishonest about that well know lie, then why should I believe any other reasons you list for not liking the man.

FTR, I realize all the other crap that occurred does indeed point to a lot of fraud happened. If we had a real media in this country, they'd be pounding the table with it 24/7 until every last issue was shown to be OK, or was in fact fraud. But we don't and the powers that be obviously aren't interested in learning the truth.

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All the other crap is indication of fraud you don't get to say well hasn't one piece of evidence been proven inaccurate so we throw out the whole case. And the topic isn't just about the suitcase ballots.

Boo Weekley said:

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Here is where liberals and Never Trumpers p*ss me off.

At the absolute very least...there was an overall appearance of a very shady and corrupt election. From the tote bags coming out at wee hours with almost no witnesses, to boarding up windows, to republican observers being escorted or blocked out, to weird "glitches" on live TV reversing counts in favor of one candidate, to counting in multiple swing states just stopping at midnight...only to have the results flip flopped by morning. Oh, and the countless sworn affidavits claiming observance of fraud.

Just imagine for a second that all of this (and more) happened to the left. It is hard to fathom the backlash, outcry, violence and chaos that would be plaguing this nation in numerous cities. The media would have been going apesh**. Absolute apesh**. The WORLD media and population would have accused Trump of Hugo Chavez tactics.

At the absolute very least, the appearance of this election s awful. So bad that I cannot blame a single person for thinking it was fraudulent as all get out.

This was the perfect storm for dems, with COVID being the perfect scenario. What other event, aside from a drawn out pandemic would have prompted most states to resort to mail in ballots on this scale?

I will NEVER believe this was a fair election. I don't care what anyone says.

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What's sad about this as well is that we tend to view this from inside our own fishbowl, when in reality, the whole world watched the election take place, and has watched all the positioning, excuse making, and dismissal in the aftermath.

I believe we have no idea how bad the resulting damage to our credibility worldwide will ultimately be, but I have to believe any person watching this objectively from another country thinks we've surrendered any moral authority when it comes to running elections.

That's gonna hurt us for a long time.

If there aren't armies of patriots at the voting booths in these precincts next time, this country is going to blow a gasket.

Another shocking prediction: if voting is done by the book and there isn't massive waves of mail in voting next election, not only will there not be 155 million votes or anything close to it, but republicans will win overwhelmingly.

I've never seen a bigger crock of **** in my life.

Tom Kazansky 2012 said:

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If there aren't armies of patriots at the voting booths in these precincts next time, this country is going to blow a gasket.

Another shocking prediction: if voting is done by the book and there isn't massive waves of mail in voting next election, not only will there not be 155 million votes or anything close to it, but republicans will win overwhelmingly.

I've never seen a bigger crock of **** in my life.

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But you have to reign in the MIBs first. That's not going to be an easy task, as it is the secret sauce that will ensure Democrat leadership for the foreseeable future. They won't let it go easily, and in fact, will try very hard to expand it in the next cycle.

Detmersdislocatedshoulder said:

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If 2020 has taught me anything it's that you won't find fraud if you are willing to turn a blind eye to any and all evidence.

2020 has also taught me that people will find racism in everything even if they have to make it up.

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And when it comes to elections, no amount of illegal activity, from failing to follow state election codes, instructing workers to disregard state election laws after receiving grants bribes from CTCL (Zuckerberg) demanding same is not actionable without also having to prove fraud, which is a very difficult task in a court of law.

Would it have been better to pursue negligence?

If you believe Biden got 80 million votes when he couldn't get 12 honking cars at his campaign rallies, I've got some oceanfront property in AZ that I'd like to sell to you.

Troutslime said:

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Would it have been better to pursue negligence?

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Good question. I was thinking about breach of a fiduciary duty as a cause of action the other day for election officials who swore an oath to uphold the federal and state constitutions.

But again, who would have standing to bring such suits? IDK anymore. Not sure most lawyers currently have a firm grasp on that moving target yet.

jrdaustin said:

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Boo Weekley said:

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Here is where liberals and Never Trumpers p*ss me off.

At the absolute very least...there was an overall appearance of a very shady and corrupt election. From the tote bags coming out at wee hours with almost no witnesses, to boarding up windows, to republican observers being escorted or blocked out, to weird "glitches" on live TV reversing counts in favor of one candidate, to counting in multiple swing states just stopping at midnight...only to have the results flip flopped by morning. Oh, and the countless sworn affidavits claiming observance of fraud.

Just imagine for a second that all of this (and more) happened to the left. It is hard to fathom the backlash, outcry, violence and chaos that would be plaguing this nation in numerous cities. The media would have been going apesh**. Absolute apesh**. The WORLD media and population would have accused Trump of Hugo Chavez tactics.

At the absolute very least, the appearance of this election s awful. So bad that I cannot blame a single person for thinking it was fraudulent as all get out.

This was the perfect storm for dems, with COVID being the perfect scenario. What other event, aside from a drawn out pandemic would have prompted most states to resort to mail in ballots on this scale?

I will NEVER believe this was a fair election. I don't care what anyone says.

---

What's sad about this as well is that we tend to view this from inside our own fishbowl, when in reality, the whole world watched the election take place, and has watched all the positioning, excuse making, and dismissal in the aftermath.

I believe we have no idea how bad the resulting damage to our credibility worldwide will ultimately be, but I have to believe any person watching this objectively from another country thinks we've surrendered any moral authority when it comes to running elections.

That's gonna hurt us for a long time.

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I agree with you...but was the mainstream media (esp foreign media) even covering this sh**? Were they airing stories about any of this? Had to scour the internet for it from what I recall. If someone only watched CNN or BBC, I don't blame them for thinking the right is crazy and that it was all conspiracy tinfoil nonsense. Anyone relying on those outlets for all of their info is already a political mouthbreather.

Why would some British person who watched mainstream left wing media think there was any hint of impropriety whatsoever?

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Why would some British person who watched mainstream left wing media think there was any hint of impropriety whatsoever?

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Brits? Maybe not. Those people in former Soviet satellite states? They knew since they had seen it all before.

aggiehawg said:

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Why would some British person who watched mainstream left wing media think there was any hint of impropriety whatsoever?

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Brits? Maybe not. Those people in former Soviet satellite states? They knew since they had seen it all before.

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I agree, and I love those people and their countries for the most part, but I understood him to be talking more about countries whose perception mattered a bit more. Some of the world players.

My Cuban and Venezuelan friends also had all kinds of red flags going off.

But the average world citizen who just watches canned mainstream news...I am sure they think the fraud allegations are crazy and completely unfounded and a complete fabrication of "Big Baby Trump's" mind.

if Twitter and FB hadn't censored the NY Post's stories about Hunter Biden that confirm Joe corruption and if anyone in MSM had even an ounce of journalistic curiosity yet alone integrity to not completely and intentionally ignore the NY Post stories and the Tony Bobulinski claims confirming Joe's corruption, the election results might have been different even WITH the urban Democrat machine up to their shenanigans only this time with massive mail-in ballots to harvest.