Mr. AGSPRT04 said:

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Where did I suggest no one should be held accountable? As I have suggested:

1. Disciplinary action, up to and including termination, depending on Blinky's track record.
2. Reasonable, compensatory damages to Mr. Miller. Not "never have to work again" money or "all the department/city is worth" kind of money.

Also:
3. You get the government you deserve in a republic. I presume the PD answers to the mayor/city manager/city council...organize to apply pressure to the political branch of local government. If desired reform is not implemented, vote the bums out.

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1. Agree, all 3 cops involved in the arrest are deserving of disciplinary action but I expect the harshest punishment will go to Webber, the 3rd cop (with stripes on sleeve) that joined the conversation and quickly escalated it to arrest. Absolutely pitiful that all 3 cops (2 with stripes on sleeves) had no understanding of the law.

2. Agree, will be interesting to see how much he gets from the city. Normally I would guess $10K to $20K for such an incident but the very public nature of the arrest and trauma to child argument will likely increase it to $50K to $100K.

3. Interestingly, the Chief is an elected position in San Angelo so not sure how much he has to answer to the mayor/city manager/city council. The Chief definitely needs to quickly implement some department wide training on this issue. I actually find it hard to believe that there has not been some recent training on this issue with all of the cop watcher and first amendment auditor videos going around these days.

On a related note, there is a City Council meeting in Keller tonight where citizens are invited to speak on the recent bad arrest incident in Keller. Until recently, I was a 15+ year resident of Keller so might have to see if I can watch it online.

Irish 2.0 said:

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Mr. AGSPRT04 said:

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AgHunter2011 said:

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Sue the department/city for all they are worth. Hopefully he never has to work again in his life.

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This take is dumb on a couple of levels. Yes, Mr. Miller was wronged by Blinky and is rightfully POed. Blinky should face disciplinary consequences, including termination if he's has a record of exercising poor judgment or not following the law. But no, Mr. Miller is not owed a life on easy street for the next 50-60 years by the fellow tax payers of SA. Monetary compensation should be commiserate with the injury, and 7-figures+ is in no way proportional to being manhandled during an arrest/detained for a couple of hours (or witnessing the same happen to your parent for that matter). Should the rest of the police force be laid off and the people of SA go without law enforcement because of Blinky's relatively-minor error? I guess the Portlandia mentality is spreading.

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The reason that the awards in lawsuits like this should be high is to keep this **** in check. If it is a slap on the wrist and a bump on a gnat's ass in terms of fiscal 'pain' inflicted on the city/PD, what is to stop them from continuing with their lax training and unlawful use of force? Punitive damages are necessary to have some semblance or reigning in the power that some of these dumbass cops THINK they have.

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Just to clarify the comments with respect to any sort of fiscal pain being absorbed by the citizenry, that's not entirely accurate. City Managers, or their Risk Management Departments, purchase Law Enforcement Liability insurance to cover these sorts of matters. It costs the taxpayers in the sense they may incur higher premiums or increased deductibles, but the exposure is transferred appropriately.

There's also the whole Texas Tort Claims Act which limits damages for personal injuries caused by government employees while acting in their official capacity.

But, you guys can carry on with your e-poop slaps.

InfantryAg said:

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Gateman said:

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How can cops be so ignorant of something as simple as Texas's Failure to ID law?

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Hard to believe these days, but overall it's a training issue. Every cop should be able to explain the ID laws and filming laws, otherwise their is a failure in training. There are lots of laws, but these are so basic. Probably the questions they got wrong on their multiple choice test, but they still passed. Some things need to be essay/ short answer.

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Or they just don't care.

I'm a big supporter of the guys in blue, my wife just completed the citizens police academy this spring and we have blue lights on our house and blue line decals on our vehicles.

But this is police academy 101 stuff here and blinky and the other cops (minus the sergeant) are all idiots.

My steps at police reform are simple. First, police pensions should be abolished to remove the incentive for cops to enforce bad policy or laws. They should be replaced by annuities (private transferable pension accounts). So good cops can leave bad districts.

In this case, and others like it, (until retirement reforms are enacted) legal judgements against police action should come from pension funds to incentivize good cops not to turn a blind eye to the bad behavior of cops.

Quote:

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In this case, and others like it, (until retirement reports are enacted) legal judgements against police action should come from pension funds to incentivize good cops not to turn a blind eye to the bad behavior of cops.

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Not going to happen.

lb3 said:

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I'm a big supporter of the guys in blue, my wife just completed the citizens police academy this spring and we have blue lights on our house and blue line decals on our vehicles.

But this is police academy 101 stuff here and blinky and the other cops (minus the sergeant) are all idiots.

My steps at police reform are simple. First, police pensions should be abolished to remove the incentive for cops to enforce bad policy or laws. They should be replaced by annuities (private transferable pension accounts). So good cops can leave bad districts.

In this case, and others like it, (until retirement reports are enacted) legal judgements against police action should come from pension funds to incentivize good cops not to turn a blind eye to the bad behavior of cops.

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It's not that they necessarily turn a blind eye, it's that cops in general have worked and lobbied to build a rats nest of protections into every level of accountability, from investigation, to punishment, to record keeping, that makes even low levels of accountability essentially meaningless.

It's the broken windows philosophy but applied to police behavior instead of the public. Since there are few real consequences for small scale issues, you get more larger failures and worse overall behavior because that is where you finally encounter real accountability and consequences. Essentially, whatever system you're trying to regulate will rise to the level of the standards holding it in. Since police unions and cops in general have worked to create a sieve of accountability, their standards are low.

Cassius said:

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bad_teammate said:

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Cassius said:

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I saw a post yesterday on this board from a cop saying he as leaving and so were other decent cops. Getting out because of lack of support and all this blm/antifa nonsense.

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Resigning from a Texas PD because of "BLM/ANTIFA nonsense" or fears of defunding is like resigning from Hawaii PD because you're afraid of snow.

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Ok, that's moronic.

Its quite legitimate for cops to fear being railroaded and prosecuted for killing or injuring your fellow libs who happen to be black criminals engaged in crime or resisting arrest. That is happening right now.

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What happens more often:

A) An officer breaks the law and gets away with it.
B) An officer is improperly found guilty of a crime.

lb3 said:

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In this case, and others like it, (until retirement reforms are enacted) legal judgements against police action should come from pension funds to incentivize good cops not to turn a blind eye to the bad behavior of cops.

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"This is hor'dibbal. This idea" [Samir]

Nothing like incentivizing cops to cover up fellow cop's bad behavior other than lining their own pockets with more money for doing so.

TxTarpon said:

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Quote:

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Hard to believe these days, but overall it's a training issue. Every cop should be able to explain the ID laws and filming laws, otherwise their is a failure in training. There are lots of laws, but these are so basic. Probably the questions they got wrong on their multiple choice test, but they still passed. Some things need to be essay/ short answer.

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They have the law on their side.
If Mr. Policeman tells you to do something, then you do it.
Otherwise you will get roughed up and charged with resisting.
This is why we have the Police Protection Act in Texas.

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To clarify I wasn't justifying the resisting, didn't even address that. Active resistance is unacceptable, even if it's a bad arrest. I was just commenting on the cops not knowing a basic law.

The cops here did escalate beyond what was needed. I have talked the majority of my arrestees into handcuffs, including violent felons. In the context of this vid, it could have been handled way better.

Not seeing the whole video (it was edited and I'm not gonna find the actual vids), I didn't hear the RAS to do anything beyond a consensual encounter.

My biggest point is that in the minuscule amount of times things like this happen, it's usually a training issue, not because the cops are bad people.

ABATTBQ11 said:

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InfantryAg said:

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Gateman said:

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How can cops be so ignorant of something as simple as Texas's Failure to ID law?

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Hard to believe these days, but overall it's a training issue. Every cop should be able to explain the ID laws and filming laws, otherwise their is a failure in training. There are lots of laws, but these are so basic. Probably the questions they got wrong on their multiple choice test, but they still passed. Some things need to be essay/ short answer.

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Or they just don't care.

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Or they just don't know.

Did I miss the part where the cops are like "we know the law, but we're going to disregard it, because we just don't care?" Are there a bunch of other videos where this happens?

lb3 said:

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I'm a big supporter of the guys in blue, my wife just completed the citizens police academy this spring and we have blue lights on our house and blue line decals on our vehicles.

But this is police academy 101 stuff here and blinky and the other cops (minus the sergeant) are all idiots.

My steps at police reform are simple. First, police pensions should be abolished to remove the incentive for cops to enforce bad policy or laws. They should be replaced by annuities (private transferable pension accounts). So good cops can leave bad districts.

In this case, and others like it, (until retirement reforms are enacted) legal judgements against police action should come from pension funds to incentivize good cops not to turn a blind eye to the bad behavior of cops.

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Most agencies in Texas have a Municipal Police pension that transfers. The larger agencies have their own pension, just like all the other city employees have.

So if some cop I don't even know gets sued for something he did, in another district, on a different shift, that should affect my retirement? Think I'll find employment elsewhere.

If a cop commits a crime and another on scene officer does not intervene, he is culpable and will face consequences.

InfantryAg said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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InfantryAg said:

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Gateman said:

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How can cops be so ignorant of something as simple as Texas's Failure to ID law?

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Hard to believe these days, but overall it's a training issue. Every cop should be able to explain the ID laws and filming laws, otherwise their is a failure in training. There are lots of laws, but these are so basic. Probably the questions they got wrong on their multiple choice test, but they still passed. Some things need to be essay/ short answer.

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Or they just don't care.

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Or they just don't know.

Did I miss the part where the cops are like "we know the law, but we're going to disregard it, because we just don't care?" Are there a bunch of other videos where this happens?

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I think I agree with you in this case. I think these guys are just dumb. Standards have been dramatically lowered over the years.

esteban said:

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Cops should have better pay and better training. They should not have qualified immunity.

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So you think cops should lose everything when they did nothing unlawful while doing their job? Or do you not really understand what qualified immunity is?

Maybe I missed it but I didn't hear any of the cops apologize to him about it. And Blinky continued to be a jerk and assert his "authority" while explaining that he didn't actually know the law. The supervisor should've said something too.

And kudos to the guy for how he handled himself after. I would've lost my mind on him once released, especially if that happened in front of my kids.