Adios Sec 230 : NatIonal Security

9,071 Views | 83 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by BusterAg
rgag12
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titan said:

unmade bed said:

Joe already calling the shots???

https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/17/21070403/joe-biden-president-election-section-230-communications-decency-act-revoke

Well, that's startling --- Biden wants to strike 230 also?? They helped him steal the election by suppressing information and dissemination of it---and still are, as witness certain twitter shutdowns the last two days.

What's up with this?


Libs, and "true" conservatives like eric76, want the government to have a larger role in regulating free speech. Getting rid of that protection is one step closer to regulating the big behemoth companies that could go rogue against Dems one day.

The progressive Dems also loathe huge corporations and want to break them up.

I see all these libs freaking out about repealing it so I automatically think it would be a great thing.
notex
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This. When the leftists freak out about something I just automatically know it must be a good thing.

The left always wants more control, until they reach North Korea types of power. Just look at how angry ole senile Joe gets when he gets a question shouted at him once every two weeks that isn't about his favorite bubble gum etc. Obama is still livid that Fox News even exists.
BMX Bandit
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When I see Biden and Pelosi support it, I know it's a terrible idea.

WestAustinAg
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FAT SEXY said:

Senators like Cruz love to ask social media heads tough questions for the cameras... and then they do nothing of substance after.
Well of course. They will need a House that also agrees. Stop this stupid setting up of tests for conservatives that no one could pass.

Cruz is embarrassing these tech titans. Sticking his finger in their eyes. They think they are the Masters of the Universe as Tom Wolfe called them and he unpants them regularly. For now it will have to be good enough.
45-70Ag
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eric76 said:

If the sore loser were to do away with Section 230, would he do away with TexAgs forums as well?


This place is already moderated in a way no one understands........kill 230.
Funky Winkerbean
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Watch The Social Dilemma on Netflix
eric76
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Panama Red said:

Quote:

Read Section 230. Do away with it and the owners of the web site could be sued for the contents of the user's postings. That would certainly include copyrights.


Perhaps you should take your own advice counselor.

(e)(2) No effect on intellectual property law
Nothing in this section shall be construed to limit or expand any law pertaining to intellectual property.

Arrggghhhhhh.

You're right and I am wrong about copyrights.

I was thinking of the DMCA.
titan
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S
SeMgCo87 said:

waco_aggie05 said:

Instead of repealing the whole section, can they not just declare Twitter and Facebook as publishers vs platforms? Who determines classification?
This is the exact issue...FB, Twitter and Google are publishers, meaning they do have control over what is pushed by contributors, but they were exempted from liability by Section 230. And check the fine print...I think it either implies they become owners of the content, or implies it.

They like to claim they are platforms (providing a soap box to every Tom, Dick and Harry), but Section 230 enables them to control the message, as if they were owners, but still appearing to be platforms.

However, at this point they have such broad usage, that it would be difficult for people to give these tools up. I think revoking Sec 230 may not help entirely. That's what is enabling their "selective" moderation. A better course may be to get more narrowly defined protections, so that they can get their ass sued big time if they don't equitably censor content. EQUITABLY, BUT NOT FAIRLY. There is no FAIRNESS in the law, only EQUITY.
That's probably exactly what should happen. They have no business suspending accounts or saying something is "false" just out of the gate just because they don't agree with it. Especially of Senators of Pennslyvania and White House announcements.

In fact, always thought the "strip 230" protections referred to a re-designation of Big Tech as not platforms anymore, NOT repealing Section 230 from the books.

Its blatantly obvious they are putting thumbs on scale as pro-Democrat entities -- not mere platforms. They even suppress the other side's view on behalf of the Democratic Party.
FrioAg 00:
Leftist Democrats "have completely overplayed the Racism accusation. Honestly my first reaction when I hear it today is to assume bad intentions by the accuser, not the accused."
Stressboy
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eric76 said:

Stressboy said:

eric76 said:

If the sore loser were to do away with Section 230, would he do away with TexAgs forums as well?


OR Maybe the sites would have to let it be a free for all and provide tools for individuals to block things they don't want to see.

I would take 4Chan on every social platform before this bull**** technocrat censorship we have.

Do you know how the world evolves? Ideas are openly debated. That's why collectivism fails everywhere it's ever been tried. Censorship is guaranteed in collectives. Once you shut down free-speech innovation dies.
Huh? Just what are you talking about?

How would providing tools to block things a user doesn't want to see prevent the web site owner from being sued over their user's content?


The POINT of 230 is to allow the free for all without risk by the owner. It is the very fact that they moderate at all which means they should lose the protection.
ArbAg
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eric76 said:

Why am I here? said:

How can they worry about being liable for the views of their users when they ban conservative views they don't like????
That does not compute.

Suppose that someone on TexAgs were to find an image on the Internet and post it on here for a "Caption This" thread. If TexAgs was liable for the copyright infringement, then TexAgs could be ordered to pay up to $30,000 in statuatory damages for just that one image.


Smell the coffee...
Banning "unapproved" political views and opinions altogether is what's being discussed here, not making a host website liable for content expressed by it's users. Big Tech should not be allowed to unilaterally determine what political spectrum is hosted while enjoying Chapter 230 protections. Big Tech has become overtly political and should be subject to the same scrutiny as other media platforms.
dmart90
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Stressboy said:

eric76 said:

Stressboy said:

eric76 said:

If the sore loser were to do away with Section 230, would he do away with TexAgs forums as well?


OR Maybe the sites would have to let it be a free for all and provide tools for individuals to block things they don't want to see.

I would take 4Chan on every social platform before this bull**** technocrat censorship we have.

Do you know how the world evolves? Ideas are openly debated. That's why collectivism fails everywhere it's ever been tried. Censorship is guaranteed in collectives. Once you shut down free-speech innovation dies.
Huh? Just what are you talking about?

How would providing tools to block things a user doesn't want to see prevent the web site owner from being sued over their user's content?


The POINT of 230 is to allow the free for all without risk by the owner. It is the very fact that they moderate at all which means they should lose the protection.

THIS! When you start to moderate, fact check, and block certain content (other than threats) you have become a publisher.
HTownAg98
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I find it interesting that there are posters that want other posters banned from here instead of using the Ignore feature. That doesn't seem to be very free-speechy.
ravingfans
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This election in 2020 has shown unquestionably that twitter, facebook, google, etc. have too much censorship power.

Solutions:
  • Break up the big tech giants due to anti-trust issues
  • Declare big tech giants to be publishers because of their censorship and "helpful" tagging
  • let free markets reward new competing innovative solutions that provide similar capabilities but cater to alternate points of view
  • repeal Section 230 to remove Big Tech's protections against copyright infringement

There is no Utopian solution here, and there are unintended consequences for picking any or all of these ideas. Pick one or all or come up with other approaches. What we have right now is not working.

I'm most in favor of letting the free market prevail. hopefully that doesn't involve breaking up the tech giants to foster growth of competitive products...
HTownAg98
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Facebook and Twitter were once small startups.

Interestingly enough, Facebook and Twitter would be in favor of some of this nonsense. They have enough attorneys on staff to handle the lawsuits that would be coming their way. A small startup would not.

Section 230 already has a carve out for copyright. Social media companies get DMCA notices all the time.
schmendeler
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Stressboy said:

eric76 said:

Stressboy said:

eric76 said:

If the sore loser were to do away with Section 230, would he do away with TexAgs forums as well?


OR Maybe the sites would have to let it be a free for all and provide tools for individuals to block things they don't want to see.

I would take 4Chan on every social platform before this bull**** technocrat censorship we have.

Do you know how the world evolves? Ideas are openly debated. That's why collectivism fails everywhere it's ever been tried. Censorship is guaranteed in collectives. Once you shut down free-speech innovation dies.
Huh? Just what are you talking about?

How would providing tools to block things a user doesn't want to see prevent the web site owner from being sued over their user's content?


The POINT of 230 is to allow the free for all without risk by the owner. It is the very fact that they moderate at all which means they should lose the protection.
you don't seem to understand what one of the main points of 230 is for.

it specifically allows platforms to moderate content they don't want on their sites.

Quote:

(c)Protection for "Good Samaritan" blocking and screening of offensive material
(1)Treatment of publisher or speaker
No provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be treated as the publisher or speaker of any information provided by another information content provider.
(2)Civil liabilityNo provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be held liable on account of
(A)
any action voluntarily taken in good faith to restrict access to or availability of material that the provider or user considers to be obscene, lewd, lascivious, filthy, excessively violent, harassing, or otherwise objectionable, whether or not such material is constitutionally protected; or
(B)
any action taken to enable or make available to information content providers or others the technical means to restrict access to material described in paragraph (1).[url=https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/47/230#fn002009][1][/url]
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/47/230
AAggie
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Needs to be MODIFIED. Not repealed.
AAggie
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Stressboy
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schmendeler said:

Stressboy said:

eric76 said:

Stressboy said:

eric76 said:

If the sore loser were to do away with Section 230, would he do away with TexAgs forums as well?


OR Maybe the sites would have to let it be a free for all and provide tools for individuals to block things they don't want to see.

I would take 4Chan on every social platform before this bull**** technocrat censorship we have.

Do you know how the world evolves? Ideas are openly debated. That's why collectivism fails everywhere it's ever been tried. Censorship is guaranteed in collectives. Once you shut down free-speech innovation dies.
Huh? Just what are you talking about?

How would providing tools to block things a user doesn't want to see prevent the web site owner from being sued over their user's content?


The POINT of 230 is to allow the free for all without risk by the owner. It is the very fact that they moderate at all which means they should lose the protection.
you don't seem to understand what one of the main points of 230 is for.

it specifically allows platforms to moderate content they don't want on their sites.

Quote:

(c)Protection for "Good Samaritan" blocking and screening of offensive material
(1)Treatment of publisher or speaker
No provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be treated as the publisher or speaker of any information provided by another information content provider.
(2)Civil liabilityNo provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be held liable on account of
(A)
any action voluntarily taken in good faith to restrict access to or availability of material that the provider or user considers to be obscene, lewd, lascivious, filthy, excessively violent, harassing, or otherwise objectionable, whether or not such material is constitutionally protected; or
(B)
any action taken to enable or make available to information content providers or others the technical means to restrict access to material described in paragraph (1).[url=https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/47/230#fn002009][1][/url]
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/47/230


"voluntarily taken in good faith to restrict...or otherwise objectionable, whether or not such material is constitutionally protected;"

If you think that should protect anyone censoring political speech as offensive your as bad as the judges that allow that crap.
Im Gipper
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The president's bowel control is a matter of national security!
schmendeler
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AG
"No provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be held liable on account of any action voluntarily taken in good faith to restrict access to or availability of material that the provider or user considers to be obscene, lewd, lascivious, filthy, excessively violent, harassing, or otherwise objectionable, whether or not such material is constitutionally protected"

Feel free to point out in there where political speech must be left untouched.
murphyag
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I have some questions: If twitter, Facebook, etc. weren't protected by 230- wouldn't they pretty much have to ban anyone posting untruths on their site? For liability protection? Ex: So, would Twitter and Facebook feel like they have to kick Trump off of their sites if he posts something that wasn't factually correct? Would they do this ahead of time just to cover their butts? I'm feeling like getting rid of 230 could possibly hurt Trump and his twitter usage.
HTownAg98
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They would be liable for anything defamatory posted on their site. Section 230 was the result of the Prodigy case that held that an online service was liable for third-party content posted on their site.

It's also why if you repeal Section 230, this forum closes shop overnight. There's no way in hell that Brandon is going to subject himself to the liability of what some of the moran loosers post here.
MASAXET
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HTownAg98 said:

They would be liable for anything defamatory posted on their site. Section 230 was the result of the Prodigy case that held that an online service was liable for third-party content posted on their site.

It's also why if you repeal Section 230, this forum closes shop overnight. There's no way in hell that Brandon is going to subject himself to the liability of what some of the moran loosers post here.


Section 230 is the most misunderstood law on this site, which is saying A LOT. The people screaming to overturn it are using purported justifications that's are 100% the opposite of reality. Their heads would really explode if we lived in a prodigy world
Stressboy
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schmendeler said:

"No provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be held liable on account of any action voluntarily taken in good faith to restrict access to or availability of material that the provider or user considers to be obscene, lewd, lascivious, filthy, excessively violent, harassing, or otherwise objectionable, whether or not such material is constitutionally protected"

Feel free to point out in there where political speech must be left untouched.


The fact that it can be lumped in a objectionable is what this is all about. But leftist believe any idea that is not from the collective is violent etc. etc.

If you say "Philly, Detroit, Atlanta and Milwaukee used fraud to steal the election" it can be censored and SHOULD NOT be under 230. The Supreme Court should outline what that catch all should mean. Just because Congress says constitutionally protected speech is some how wiped out under this stupid phrase does not mean it should stand up in court.

Now that it is 5-4 if it gets to the court maybe they can fix it before the leftists steal the senate and wipe out all of our checks and balances.
Farmer @ Johnsongrass, TX
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eric76 said:

If the sore loser were to do away with Section 230, would he do away with TexAgs forums as well?
Section 230 and TexAgs are 2 different worlds. Why do you think there is need for concern?
eric76
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Farmer @ Johnsongrass, TX said:

eric76 said:

If the sore loser were to do away with Section 230, would he do away with TexAgs forums as well?
Section 230 and TexAgs are 2 different worlds. Why do you think there is need for concern?
I was confusing Section 230 with DMCA. My mistake.
schmendeler
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Stressboy said:

schmendeler said:

"No provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be held liable on account of any action voluntarily taken in good faith to restrict access to or availability of material that the provider or user considers to be obscene, lewd, lascivious, filthy, excessively violent, harassing, or otherwise objectionable, whether or not such material is constitutionally protected"

Feel free to point out in there where political speech must be left untouched.


The fact that it can be lumped in a objectionable is what this is all about. But leftist believe any idea that is not from the collective is violent etc. etc.

If you say "Philly, Detroit, Atlanta and Milwaukee used fraud to steal the election" it can be censored and SHOULD NOT be under 230. The Supreme Court should outline what that catch all should mean. Just because Congress says constitutionally protected speech is some how wiped out under this stupid phrase does not mean it should stand up in court.

Now that it is 5-4 if it gets to the court maybe they can fix it before the leftists steal the senate and wipe out all of our checks and balances.


Your argument seems to be "I don't like it, so that's not what the law says!" Even though the text is pretty straight forward. You can say you think it's unconstitutional, though, I'm not sure how you can reason that, but that's a different argument than disputing the clear text of the law.
BMX Bandit
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Farmer @ Johnsongrass, TX said:

eric76 said:

If the sore loser were to do away with Section 230, would he do away with TexAgs forums as well?
Section 230 and TexAgs are 2 different worlds. Why do you think there is need for concern?


How so? Texags is an interactive computer service. It's protected by sec 230
eric76
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BMX Bandit said:

Farmer @ Johnsongrass, TX said:

eric76 said:

If the sore loser were to do away with Section 230, would he do away with TexAgs forums as well?
Section 230 and TexAgs are 2 different worlds. Why do you think there is need for concern?


How so? Texags is an interactive computer service. It's protected by sec 230
While there are things covered by Section 230 that could be a problem here such as some harassment of people, I was thinking more of copyright issues and the DMCA.
BMX Bandit
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Section 230 and Texags are not "different worlds"

Texags can be liable for copyright infringement under normal copyright laws

Texags can be liable for violations of the DMCA in addition to that
HTownAg98
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Stressboy said:

schmendeler said:

"No provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be held liable on account of any action voluntarily taken in good faith to restrict access to or availability of material that the provider or user considers to be obscene, lewd, lascivious, filthy, excessively violent, harassing, or otherwise objectionable, whether or not such material is constitutionally protected"

Feel free to point out in there where political speech must be left untouched.


The fact that it can be lumped in a objectionable is what this is all about. But leftist believe any idea that is not from the collective is violent etc. etc.

If you say "Philly, Detroit, Atlanta and Milwaukee used fraud to steal the election" it can be censored and SHOULD NOT be under 230. The Supreme Court should outline what that catch all should mean. Just because Congress says constitutionally protected speech is some how wiped out under this stupid phrase does not mean it should stand up in court.

Now that it is 5-4 if it gets to the court maybe they can fix it before the leftists steal the senate and wipe out all of our checks and balances.

It's been to the courts several times, and upheld every single time. The one time the CDA made it to SCOTUS, the CDA was struck down, but Section 230 was left in place. No one else shares Thomas' views on it, and the issues he would look at don't have anything to do with the ridiculous publisher v. platform distinction.
BMX Bandit
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Quote:

"No provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be held liable on account of any action voluntarily taken in good faith to restrict access to or availability of material that the provider or user considers to be obscene, lewd, lascivious, filthy, excessively violent, harassing, or otherwise objectionable, whether or not such material is constitutionally protected"


This part probably does need to be changed. By really it would just result in more stringent ToS. As HTown said, Facebook & Twitter won't care. Zuckerburg has already said he wants more regulation. Why? It will hurt the start ups

But this part of 230 has nothing to do with the "publisher not a provider" line that people keep pushing no matter how many times it's been explained.
black_ice
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BMX Bandit said:

Section 230 and Texags are not "different worlds"

Texags can be liable for copyright infringement under normal copyright laws

Texags can be liable for violations of the DMCA in addition to that



God help us!!!!!!
Panama Red
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Quote:

Section 230 is the most misunderstood law on this site, which is saying A LOT.
"HIPPA" (as its called here often) is solid #2.
Stressboy
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HTownAg98 said:

Stressboy said:

schmendeler said:

"No provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be held liable on account of any action voluntarily taken in good faith to restrict access to or availability of material that the provider or user considers to be obscene, lewd, lascivious, filthy, excessively violent, harassing, or otherwise objectionable, whether or not such material is constitutionally protected"

Feel free to point out in there where political speech must be left untouched.


The fact that it can be lumped in a objectionable is what this is all about. But leftist believe any idea that is not from the collective is violent etc. etc.

If you say "Philly, Detroit, Atlanta and Milwaukee used fraud to steal the election" it can be censored and SHOULD NOT be under 230. The Supreme Court should outline what that catch all should mean. Just because Congress says constitutionally protected speech is some how wiped out under this stupid phrase does not mean it should stand up in court.

Now that it is 5-4 if it gets to the court maybe they can fix it before the leftists steal the senate and wipe out all of our checks and balances.

It's been to the courts several times, and upheld every single time. The one time the CDA made it to SCOTUS, the CDA was struck down, but Section 230 was left in place. No one else shares Thomas' views on it, and the issues he would look at don't have anything to do with the ridiculous publisher v. platform distinction.


Your right I don't like it. I don't like how it's interpreted or written. My argument is that the laws intent was not protection to suppress political or scientific debate which it is being used for and I do feel that carving out protections for companies to do so should be unconstitutional. The catch all at the end which specifically says to cover protected speech is what should be attacked and no person who wants the world to evolve should be ok with it.
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