Because the right complains about government subsidies, but they love to take credit for private industry work as if they did it themselves.

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So which government subsidy are you talking about in the case where a vaccine was made using zero money from the government?

Fenrir said:

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So which government subsidy are you talking about in the case where a vaccine was made using zero money from the government?

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StingLikeABee said:

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hawk1689 said:

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StingLikeABee said:

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Reload8098 said:

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I'd like to know what outcome Aggie Democrats desire/believe in.
Socialism?
GND (eliminate fossil fuels)?
One party rule?
Government healthcare?
Use of violence to control those who speak out against you?
Desire to destroy a Republic or at least what's left of it?
Compromise is out the window if it doesn't meet your agenda?
Reparations?
Free college education?

I'd really like to know what you believe in.

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Libertarian here, although I'm sure to most of y'all I will be labeled liberal. It's ok.

I want a lot of things that won't happen. So realistically, I just want to go back to normal. Bring back Bush. Bring back Clinton. Hell, stick Pence in there. I don't give a flying Fk. I just want a normal, boring 4 years where I'm not reminded of the dumpster fire that is the Trump presidency.

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Nothing in your statements even remotely reflects the values of the Libertarian Party.

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That's how bad Donald Trump is. He can make a Ron Paul voter cast a ballot for Biden. Trump is the antithesis of a pro-liberty president. his strategy and method for attaining power is as far from the libertarian ideal as we've seen. To me, this is the ultimate lesser of two evils.

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Can you tell me how Trump has been worse for liberties than Bush or Obama, who signed Patriots Act and ObamaCare?

Let me repeat it for you. The right loves to complain about subsidies, like you're doing right now but loves to take credit for the work of private industry, exactly what the Trump admin did.

But if you want evidence of vaccines that were created using government spending, the polio vaccine was made at the University of Pittsburg, funded by the government.

Ag-Yoakum95 said:

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StingLikeABee said:

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Reload8098 said:

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I'd like to know what outcome Aggie Democrats desire/believe in.
Socialism?
GND (eliminate fossil fuels)?
One party rule?
Government healthcare?
Use of violence to control those who speak out against you?
Desire to destroy a Republic or at least what's left of it?
Compromise is out the window if it doesn't meet your agenda?
Reparations?
Free college education?

I'd really like to know what you believe in.

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Libertarian here, although I'm sure to most of y'all I will be labeled liberal. It's ok.

I want a lot of things that won't happen. So realistically, I just want to go back to normal. Bring back Bush. Bring back Clinton. Hell, stick Pence in there. I don't give a flying Fk. I just want a normal, boring 4 years where I'm not reminded of the dumpster fire that is the Trump presidency.

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Normal? You think a Biden / Harris administration will be normal? You prefer a man with clear mental decline leading this country? You clearly have issues.

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"Normal" just means the media goes back to ignoring the corruption and incompetence.

Let me repeat it for you.

You tried taking credit for the CV vaccine on the behalf of socialized medicine when it was solely financed by the for profit company.

I'm starting to feel like you can't read.

It literally says "which isn't true" in the comment.

I misread isn't as is looks like. Which confuses me even further because now you have evidence of the efficiency of for profit medicine to come up with fast solutions and your desire is to move it underneath the federal government which moves in speed intervals closer to a decade and not months.

Every socialized medicine system in the world depends on the US system to innovate and pay for those innovations.

They also don't have to field a competent military because we protect them.

The claim that western European socialists have a higher quality of life is ridiculous on its face. They live in tiny apartments, drive tiny cars and can't afford children.

The point that I was making was that the right doesn't like government subsidies, but their leader lies and takes credit for private industry work as if they did give them a subsidy. You can't have it both ways.

I could have easily just used the polio vaccine if my point was to praise government subsidies.

blakegrimez said:

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Let me repeat it for you. The right loves to complain about subsidies, like you're doing right now but loves to take credit for the work of private industry, exactly what the Trump admin did.

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Do you not see that is a perfect example of problems being solved by private industry vs gov't subsidies?

Its not taking credit, it's saying look what they've done when we've fostered private industry and eased regulation burdens

I'm glad your big house and big truck are what give you satisfaction in life.

DannyDuberstein said:

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They want us all to drive electric cars and plug our cars into the magic box where electricity is made

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And Cali can't even keep the electricity on.

GeorgiAg said:

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Not a liberal but I've been called one.

Reload8098 said:

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I'd like to know what outcome Aggie Democrats desire/believe in.
Socialism? No
GND (eliminate fossil fuels)? Slowly it'd be better for us in the long run. I have oil royalties coming in so this would hurt me financially. But I'm fine with it. Electric Porsche Taycan? yaaas please.
One party rule? No. Trump is trying to do this now. Not even one party. Just Trump monarchy.
Government healthcare? You mean more government HC? What is Trumps HC plan? Don't cover pre existing conditions? I like private HC but not opposed to public.
Use of violence to control those who speak out against you? No.
Desire to destroy a Republic or at least what's left of it? No. Trump is doing that right now.
Compromise is out the window if it doesn't meet your agenda? Hello. Trump
Reparations? Stupid.
Free college education? Hell no.

I'd really like to know what you believe in.

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Unethical ambulance chaser?

This is from Operation Warp Speed: "Finally, OWS is supporting the companies financially and technically to commence process development and scale up manufacturing while their vaccines are in preclinical or very early clinical stages."

You understand that the government is the one paying for this vaccine right, with your taxes.

Libertarians are such a joke they love freedom so much they vote for Biden /Harris

StingLikeABee said:

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hawk1689 said:

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StingLikeABee said:

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Reload8098 said:

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I'd like to know what outcome Aggie Democrats desire/believe in.
Socialism?
GND (eliminate fossil fuels)?
One party rule?
Government healthcare?
Use of violence to control those who speak out against you?
Desire to destroy a Republic or at least what's left of it?
Compromise is out the window if it doesn't meet your agenda?
Reparations?
Free college education?

I'd really like to know what you believe in.

---

Libertarian here, although I'm sure to most of y'all I will be labeled liberal. It's ok.

I want a lot of things that won't happen. So realistically, I just want to go back to normal. Bring back Bush. Bring back Clinton. Hell, stick Pence in there. I don't give a flying Fk. I just want a normal, boring 4 years where I'm not reminded of the dumpster fire that is the Trump presidency.

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Nothing in your statements even remotely reflects the values of the Libertarian Party.

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That's how bad Donald Trump is. He can make a Ron Paul voter cast a ballot for Biden. Trump is the antithesis of a pro-liberty president. his strategy and method for attaining power is as far from the libertarian ideal as we've seen. To me, this is the ultimate lesser of two evils.

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What about teacher unions effectively shutting down school because they don't want to work? Is that liberty or fairness?

blakegrimez said:

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I don't think more or bigger government is bad. I support a few socialist policies, the biggest being single payer healthcare. I don't think there should be a middle man in the healthcare industry profiting on someone's desire to continue living. We can argue all day about if it's cheaper or more expensive, but I will gladly pay my fair share of whatever that cost would be.

I was raised to help thy neighbor, and I truly believe that we're all in the same boat. We all want each other to be happy and healthy, we just see different ways of getting there.

That's what it boils down to for me.

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I get you are willing to pay your fair share and voting for others to have to as well, but you are also fine with everyone that has health care giving up their quality of care? There is no way you really be naive enough to think quality of care will remain the same. So you are good with a parent/grandparent needing a much needed surgery they would normally get in say a month, waiting for 9 months instead? At that point you are not just voting with other people's money, but also their health. If you think the elderly won't be sacrificed more readily you are kidding yourself. There is a reason the wealthy come from other countries to have some of their needed surgeries. You are just going to create a system where Yay, the middle class happy with their Healthcare get to 'share' in a crap system and the wealthy will pay extra to get to the front of the line either here or elsewhere. Sounds great.

blakegrimez said:

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I'm glad your big house and big truck are what give you satisfaction in life.

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I guess you left out my point on children because it can't be made to sound superficial and banal.

How is that in support of socialized medicine? At best it's a point of hypocrisy which does nothing to justify socialized medicine.

Feel free pushing polio vaccine as evidence of socialized medicine if you want. The first one took decades to make and was dangerous. The us didn't accept a vaccine until the mid 50s, meanwhile half a million people worldwide were left paralyzed or dead every year. The first polio pandemic was 6 decades before we got a vaccine.

Black grimez why don't you cut a check to the Us treasury if you feel like you want to help more ? Put your money where your mouth is !

Conservative Ag said:

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We all knew a few of these in college. They were EXACTLY what you expected. Every time.

I roomed with one during one summer interning in DC. This guy's entire goal was to get on CNN Crossfire, taped daily on the GWU campus where we lived. He went all the time, could never get picked to go on.

I went on a whim one time, someone had an extra ticket. Only time I ever went. Got picked to ask my question on live, national tv. Tucker and Paul Begala.

I get back to the room that night, my other roommate opens the door, thrilled because they were watching. "We saw you!" He said. The Democrat sulked in the background, barely said a word.

I still have the blue index card that I wrote my question on.

He never got on.

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Great story!

What was you question and what was the response?

Fenrir said:

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How is that in support of socialized medicine? At best it's a point of hypocrisy which does nothing to justify socialized medicine.

Feel free pushing polio vaccine as evidence of socialized medicine if you want. The first one took decades to make and was dangerous. The us didn't accept a vaccine until the mid 50s, meanwhile half a million people worldwide were left paralyzed or dead every year. The first polio pandemic was 6 decades before we got a vaccine.

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That'll leave a mark.

The elderly use this lovely government program called medicare.

Like I said in the following comment, single-payer option. You don't have to give up your private health insurance, anyone else can buy into the public option. If it's cheaper and quality, then more people will buy into it, if not then private insurance will come out on top.

There's no evidence to suggest that wait times would be longer, if they are then that just means more people are getting the care that they need.

My dad uses the VA for his cancer treatments, his wait times are normal.

Cassius said:

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Quote:

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I don't think there should be a middle man in the healthcare industry profiting on someone's desire to continue living. .

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There will still be a middleman. The government. The government will profit. All those agencies and beaurocrats have to be paid. Government is an order of magnitude less efficient. There will be no savings. Insurance company margins are like 4%.
The government has no competition and can't go broke. Thus, they have no incentive to get better. Private companies do. Private companies are constantly assessing cost, adjusting, improving, etc. They have to or a competitor will put them under.

As far as profiting off someones desire to continue living, what about HC providers themselves, doc, nurses, etc? What about all the medical tech companies? What about pharmaceutical companies. What about drug stores? What about private hospitals? All those people do what they do for profit. They are all profiting from a person's desire to live. Should they become a part of government? If so, any and all improvements will come to a halt.

Socialism, at its core, disincentivizes. That's why America leads the world in new drug development, medical tech, etc.

There are public goods and then there is socialism. A true public good is ok. Socialism is not.

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Liberals can't seem to realize HOW the vaccine was developed and ready to go in under 8 months if not for PRIVATE health companies. Do you really think the same result would happen if the government made the vaccine from scratch?

Leather Tuscadero said:

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I don't agree with liberals on many things but I can see where they come from on some issues. Single payer healthcare, increased social services, reparations, etc all come from a place of compassion. Well, for some reparations is just pure revenge, but for some it's an attempt to make things "fair". So I get it and empathize even if it's poor policy not grounded in reality. I think when you both have good desires for outcomes you can come to good compromises.


Where they lose me is gun control and fracking. Neither of these are based on science or even rational thought for good outcomes. It simply defies logic or really anything else. And when they support them it makes me question their true support for other things.

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Reparations? For what? What has happened to them in their lifetime that they are OWED anything? Tell ya what you want to write them a check out of your wallet, have at it. What right do you have to force someone who blatantly opposes such a stupid a** idea? You wanna see race relations sent back to the stone age, force reparations on those who hate the idea.
Single Payer healthcare? Take a good look at the military healthcare. It would be so much worse than that. Tell me ONE thing the government does better than private enterprise? Have you not seen enough corruption? That would be the biggest sh*t show ever created.
My grandfather grew up on a reservation in OK. But he got a degree and would up an executive for Exxon. He was born in 1900. Can you imagine how hard that was back then? I have 2 good friends from Vietnam who came to the US with NOTHING. There families were killed by the communists. They grew up in foster homes. Yet one went to A&M and the other to u of H. They worked and went to college and both wound up at Exxon where we met. So tell me what more people need in this country? NOTHING. If your willing to WORK you can succeed at anything. Anything. I worked my way through A&M. Two full time jobs in the summer and 30 hours a week during the year as a shuttle bus driver and library worker at A&M. Took me 5 instead of 4 but I graduated with high marks and had a hell of a great time at A&M.

blakegrimez said:

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The elderly use this lovely government program called medicare.

Like I said in the following comment, single-payer option. You don't have to give up your private health insurance, anyone else can buy into the public option. If it's cheaper and quality, then more people will buy into it, if not then private insurance will come out on top.

There's no evidence to suggest that wait times would be longer, if they are then that just means more people are getting the care that they need.

My dad uses the VA for his cancer treatments, his wait times are normal.

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Medicare uses private inscos, is heavily subsidized by clients with private insurance, and many HC providers don't take it.

So, I'm willing to compare the outcome of the two if we take away private insurance making up the difference, and the total government cost. If we do that, Medicare loses and its not close.

If your dad had good luck with the VA system, he was an extreme aberration. For every success story, I can post 500 failures.

Free college.

Public option.

Reload8098 said:

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I'd like to know what outcome Aggie Democrats desire/believe in.
Socialism?
GND (eliminate fossil fuels)?
One party rule?
Government healthcare?
Use of violence to control those who speak out against you?
Desire to destroy a Republic or at least what's left of it?
Compromise is out the window if it doesn't meet your agenda?
Reparations?
Free college education?

I'd really like to know what you believe in.

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Single payer healthcare

Global ecological sustainability (GND)

Social justice reform (it's real bad you guys)

Improved public education

Expanded voting rights

Trains dude, give me some bullet trains

First of all, the vaccine you're talking about wasn't even approved and used the virus that was found in monkeys because no one could figure out how to make cultures of it.

They didn't figure out how to make cultures until late 1949, this is how all modern vaccines are made now. The private industry also couldn't figure it out.

The first vaccine made after this time was made by private industry and wasn't approved in the US. The next vaccine was developed a couple years later, which is the one I mentioned before and is the first one that was widely used. There were problems with this one when private industry messed up the manufacturing and ended up infecting kids with polio.

The next polio vaccine wasn't approved in the US until the early 60s, which is the one we still use today.

Use the full story instead of trying to fear monger.

Yup, sounds like a resounding success. Only millions of people dead or paralyzed in the time it took to produce a vaccine. Meanwhile we have privately funded companies revolutionizing medicine over the decades to the point we have a vaccine for a virus in 12 months from initial discovery. Really hate those for profit companies racing to discover medical breakthroughs meanwhile other nations with socialized medicine are busy sitting with their thumbs up their asses.

Fenrir said:

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Yup, sounds like a resounding success. Only millions of people dead or paralyzed in the time it took to produce a vaccine. Meanwhile we have privately funded companies revolutionizing medicine over the decades to the point we have a vaccine for a virus in 12 months from initial discovery. Really hate those for profit companies racing to discover medical breakthroughs meanwhile other nations with socialized medicine are busy sitting with their thumbs up their asses.

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Why couldn't private industry develop the polio vaccine sooner instead of letting millions of people die? They tried and couldn't.

Why can we develop a covid vaccine now? Because of the innovation that brought us the polio vaccine.

Again, you're fear-mongering and ignoring the facts.

blakegrimez said:

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Fenrir said:

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Yup, sounds like a resounding success. Only millions of people dead or paralyzed in the time it took to produce a vaccine. Meanwhile we have privately funded companies revolutionizing medicine over the decades to the point we have a vaccine for a virus in 12 months from initial discovery. Really hate those for profit companies racing to discover medical breakthroughs meanwhile other nations with socialized medicine are busy sitting with their thumbs up their asses.

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Why couldn't private industry develop the polio vaccine sooner instead of letting millions of people die? They tried and couldn't.

Why can we develop a covid vaccine now? Because of the innovation that brought us the polio vaccine.

Again, you're fear-mongering and ignoring the facts.

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They did develop it, but private companies decided it wasn't profitable to go into the slums in India to distribute it. Thus polio wasn't eradicated until the WHO got involved.