Mark Fairchild said:

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The American people did voice who they wanted on the Supreme Court. They elected Donald Trump to a FOUR YEAR TERM to make that determination and nomination.

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This point continually goes right over the heads of the liberals. Add to this that in 2016 and 2018, the American people also solidified the Republicans' hold on the Senate.

Maacus said:

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That_Guy_Moose said:

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96AgGrad said:

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That_Guy_Moose said:

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96AgGrad said:

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That_Guy_Moose said:

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4stringAg said:

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That_Guy_Moose said:

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Evanhue said:

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Are the Proud Boys the left's new boogieman?
Good grief.

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They're literal white supremecists dude.

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They have Latinos and blacks in their ranks.

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Oh so that justifies what they stand for?

Get real.

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You seem to be the expert on them - What do they stand for? Whites that take pride in their country are automatically White Supremacists?

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So, just to be totally clear, you're totally fine with white supremacy as long as it's gift wrapped as "patriotism"?

These are people who have publicly supported to extermination of the Jews. This is not a winning argument for you, or for anyone, and it's disgusting to see them defended on this site.

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You still haven't told me what they stand for. I am aware of white supremacy is. I'm just trying to figure how you logically concluded that it's a platform of the Proud Boys. I mean other than a cynical political smear designed to hurt Republicans.

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Unreal. This site is straight up defending the Proud Boys. This is truly shameful, and honestly a pretty sad portrait of American views.

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Unreal. The Democrats straight defend Antifa and BLM. THAT is what is truly shameful and a sad portrait of the Democrat party.

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And they rally around anti-semites like Omar and Tlaib. Truly shameful.

No way Biden could ever get my support over that.

96AgGrad said:

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That_Guy_Moose said:

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96AgGrad said:

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That_Guy_Moose said:

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96AgGrad said:

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Quote:

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There is no "White" American nation. There is just America. We are all Americans, no matter what we look like, or what belief system we follow, or what our politics are. It's sad that I even have to explain that, but, given our entire conversation to now is sadly unsurprising.

This is truly disappointing. You refuse to disavow the Proud Boys and their publicly hateful rhetoric. I have provided 5 sources explicitly outlining their long history of racial and religious bigotry, and, like Donald Trump, you cannot bring yourself to say "I disavow this."

What do you expect to gain from this? Is there a reward for being complicit in the defense of hatred and vitriol towards your fellow man? Please, I ask, look inward. Disavow hate. Find faith in your fellow man, and in our ability to work together. I implore you, please stop with this defense of bigotry

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Get off your soap box. You don't know the first thing about me. The Left is who attached "White" to "Nationalist" to make it sound racist. The Left is the side bent on creating racial division. The Right just wants to be left alone.

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This is just so wrong. A nation is a shared language, history, geography and culture coalesced into a political entity. There is no race involved. If you believe a nation state is defined only by your race and not a common culture, then it is, by definition, racist.

The United States is a nation. It is not the White States of America. We are multicultural. To suggest otherwise is wrong.

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Yes, I believe I just said that. The "White" label wasn't our idea.

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The structure of your question made it clear that you did not believe that White Nationalism was bad or racist (also evident by your inability to denounce the Proud Boys).

Also your claim that the idea of White Nationalism comes from the Democratic Party is perplexing since the idea of white supremacy and white ethno-states predates even then United States of America, with origins in the Enlightenment, and brought mainstream by Social Darwinism. An obvious historic example of the idea writ large is, of course, the Nazis, of whom the founder of the Proud Boys appears to be quite the fan.

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You mean except for the part where the founder says "No offence Nazis, I don't like you. Sorry guys, I'm not into it."

When I say that White Nationalism comes from the Democrat Party, I am not referring to the original concept. I'm referring to the fact that displays of patriotism, often by groups of whites, are quickly labeled as White Nationalism by the media in an effort to spark racial division for political gain.

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No. The part where he touts the teachings of David Duke on anti-Semitism, their marches with Neo-Nazis, and the part where he explicitly says he has to "defend Nazis," and the part where he posts videos saying "the 10 things I hate about Jews." All of this is in the sources I provide, all of it is objectively true, yet you dance around those truths and refuse to denounce them and instead call them patriots? Why?

Just like 4chan starting the white nationalist "okay" sign as a dogwhistle, them having minority members is exactly so they can say "see! Look! We aren't racist!". Milo Yiapopopopulous did the same thing with his black husband.

That_Guy_Moose said:

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4stringAg said:

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That_Guy_Moose said:

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Evanhue said:

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Are the Proud Boys the left's new boogieman?
Good grief.

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They're literal white supremecists dude.

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They have Latinos and blacks in their ranks.

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Oh so that justifies what they stand for?

Get real.

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You're going down a rabbit hole that you're about to get stuck in.

Ok Moose I think I will throw my hat in this ring of BS.

1. None of your sources are valid, WHY? They are all an editorial, outside takes or some sort of spin on the Proud Boys.

So let me help you out here. Let's actually use their links and their videos and not the left anti American, anti male BS that you linked.

[Disclaimer: My posting these links or vids is not a personal endorsement of the Proud Boys. I am not a member and would not be a member for a number of reasons. However, when someone is labeled a racist or an antisemitic or the like, I prefer to actually see what they have to say or what they have done. Not get it second hand or from some one else. Oh and please Moose show me one act of violence that the Proud Boys have initiated. one building burnt down or fire started, or one cop shot? I'lll be waiting a long time for that. Yet will you denounce ANTIFA AND BLM? I will, I will not denounce the Proud Boys, because they have done none of the things you have accused them of doing or being! That does not mean I am a "proud boy", this extremist nonsense that says you have to be 100% in agreement with someone or denounce them is totally BS!]

Well, as Reagan said, "There he goes again".

Trump clearly and redundantly has denounced white supremacist groups.

However that was not what they really wanted, What they want to do is have Trump label a specific group. Proudboys as White supremacist and denounce them. Here is the issue with that. They are not White Supremacist group. Why because they are a real threat to the Antifa/BLM marxist group.

https://officialproudboys.com/


Here are their Tenets:

The Proud Boys are a men's organization founded in 2016 by Vice Media co-founder Gavin McInnes. McInnes has described the Proud Boys as a pro-Western fraternal organization for men who refuse to apologize for creating the modern world; aka Western Chauvinists.
Proud Boys' values center on the following tenets:
Minimal Government
Maximum Freedom
Anti-Political Correctness
Anti-Drug War
Closed Borders
Anti-Racial Guilt
Anti-Racism
Pro-Free Speech (1st Amendment)
Pro-Gun Rights (2nd Amendment)
Glorifying the Entrepreneur
Venerating the Housewife
Reinstating a Spirit of Western Chauvinism
Though these are our central tenets, all that is required to become a Proud Boy is that a man declare he is "a Western chauvinist who refuses to apologize for creating the modern world." We do not discriminate based upon race or sexual orientation/preference. We are not an "ism", "ist", or "phobic" that fits the Left's narrative. We truly believe that the West Is The Best and welcome those who believe in the same tenets as us. We have an international reach, with members spanning the globe. If you have any questions or would like get in contact with your local chapter, feel free to contact us directly via our staff page. This, after all, the one and only Proud Boy Magazine. For Proud Boys, by Proud Boys. UHURU!
If you're interested here are some additional articles and video clips to shed some more light on our movement. In fact, here are a few Gavin has written for this website.
We Are Not Alt-Right
Clarification on the 4th Degree

There is youtube by the founder of the group.

https://officialproudboys.com/proud-boys/we-are-not-alt-right/

And the a vid of the founder

OPAG said:

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Ok Moose I think I will throw my hat in this ring of BS.

1. None of your sources are valid, WHY? They are all an editorial, outside takes or some sort of spin on the Proud Boys.

So let me help you out here. Let's actually use their links and their videos and not the left anti American, anti male BS that you linked.

[Disclaimer: My posting these links or vids is not a personal endorsement of the Proud Boys. I am not a member and would not be a member for a number of reasons. However, when someone is labeled a racist or an antisemitic or the like, I prefer to actually see what they have to say or what they have done. Not get it second hand or from some one else. Oh and please Moose show me one act of violence that the Proud Boys have initiated. one building burnt down or fire started, or one cop shot? I'lll be waiting a long time for that. Yet will you denounce ANTIFA AND BLM? I will, I will not denounce the Proud Boys, because they have done none of the things you have accused them of doing or being! That does not mean I am a "proud boy", this extremist nonsense that says you have to be 100% in agreement with someone or denounce them is totally BS!]

Well, as Reagan said, "There he goes again".

Trump clearly and redundantly has denounced white supremacist groups.

However that was not what they really wanted, What they want to do is have Trump label a specific group. Proudboys as White supremacist and denounce them. Here is the issue with that. They are not White Supremacist group. Why because they are a real threat to the Antifa/BLM marxist group.

https://officialproudboys.com/


Here are their Tenets:

The Proud Boys are a men's organization founded in 2016 by Vice Media co-founder Gavin McInnes. McInnes has described the Proud Boys as a pro-Western fraternal organization for men who refuse to apologize for creating the modern world; aka Western Chauvinists.
Proud Boys' values center on the following tenets:
Minimal Government
Maximum Freedom
Anti-Political Correctness
Anti-Drug War
Closed Borders
Anti-Racial Guilt
Anti-Racism
Pro-Free Speech (1st Amendment)
Pro-Gun Rights (2nd Amendment)
Glorifying the Entrepreneur
Venerating the Housewife
Reinstating a Spirit of Western Chauvinism
Though these are our central tenets, all that is required to become a Proud Boy is that a man declare he is "a Western chauvinist who refuses to apologize for creating the modern world." We do not discriminate based upon race or sexual orientation/preference. We are not an "ism", "ist", or "phobic" that fits the Left's narrative. We truly believe that the West Is The Best and welcome those who believe in the same tenets as us. We have an international reach, with members spanning the globe. If you have any questions or would like get in contact with your local chapter, feel free to contact us directly via our staff page. This, after all, the one and only Proud Boy Magazine. For Proud Boys, by Proud Boys. UHURU!
If you're interested here are some additional articles and video clips to shed some more light on our movement. In fact, here are a few Gavin has written for this website.
We Are Not Alt-Right
Clarification on the 4th Degree

There is youtube by the founder of the group.

https://officialproudboys.com/proud-boys/we-are-not-alt-right/

And the a vid of the founder

---

You claim my sources are not impartial then you link the actual Proud Boys website and claim that to be impartial? Come on. It's almost like organizations have a self-interested goal of making themselves NOT look like the terrible things they espouse. Look at their actions. He has a video titled "10 things I hate about Jews." He has cited David Duke. Members have attended White Supremacist rallies, KKK rallies, and neo-Nazi rallies.

That invalidates anything else you have to say. These men support an Anti-Semite, march with White Supremacists (and have members who openly express that sentiment), and stand for hate. This is all outline in my articles (which have their own links within them!). It's stunning to me that you guys are continuing to fight me on this. The Proud Boys actions over the last 4 years show their colors, and it is an indefensible record.

AgResearch said:

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One of my favorite exchanges of the night.

CSTXAg92 said:

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AgResearch said:

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One of my favorite exchanges of the night.

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And the Chris comes in and saves Biden. What a joke of a moderator

That_Guy_Moose said:

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Evanhue said:

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Are the Proud Boys the left's new boogieman?
Good grief.

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They're literal white supremecists dude.

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That_Guy_Moose said:

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The Proud Boys actions over the last 4 years show their colors, and it is an indefensible record.

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Do you agree that, for this reason, it is wrong to paint someone that refuses to raise their fist for BLM as a racist? Cities have been ravaged in the name of BLM for longer than 4 years.

Total BS Moose. You cannot just go out and be selective pick quotes that have been piecemealed together by those who have an agenda and then say that we should not even read the source itself. This is not only hypocricy it is unconstitutional.

I could make do the same to you Moose, I guarantee you I could interview you ask certain questions, and then extract the answers that I want to make it appear that you are what I have determined that you are .

You cannot make a judgement about someone until you actually hear from them, Yes? isn't that how our judicial system is supposed to work?

I have quote Adolf Hitler before, does that make me a Nazi? Please!

You are simply straining gnats to swallow camels. Again will you denouce BLM/ Antifa as terrorist/racist groups? Because guess what I can have you here all day watching clip after ciip of those groups INITIATING RIOTS, BURNING< LOOTIND AND YES KILLING>

Please show one time that Proud boys has initiated any violence. They have definitely been a counter to the the antifa movement and that is why you ilk hate and want to get Trump to denounce them.

Your just a freaking hypocrite moose

cisgenderedAggie said:

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That_Guy_Moose said:

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The Proud Boys actions over the last 4 years show their colors, and it is an indefensible record.

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Do you agree that, for this reason, it is wrong to paint someone that refuses to raise their fist for BLM as a racist? Cities have been ravaged in the name of BLM for longer than 4 years.

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They're not racist. No one should be coerced into doing something they don't want to do. BLM has many problems, I don't dispute that, I've never disputed that. If they break the law they deserve to have the book thrown at them.

My issue is that your deflection does not change anything about my original point. How many posters in here have flatly refused to condemn the Proud Boys and their bigoted, hateful rhetoric? Why are you all running point for these guys? Why can no one say simply, "I disavow the hateful, Anti-Semitic and White Nationalist rhetoric of the Proud Boys and it's members?"

OPAG said:

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Total BS Moose. You cannot just go out and be selective pick quotes that have been piecemealed together by those who have an agenda and then say that we should not even read the source itself. This is not only hypocricy it is unconstitutional.

I could make do the same to you Moose, I guarantee you I could interview you ask certain questions, and then extract the answers that I want to make it appear that you are what I have determined that you are .

You cannot make a judgement about someone until you actually hear from them, Yes? isn't that how our judicial system is supposed to work?

I have quote Adolf Hitler before, does that make me a Nazi? Please!

You are simply straining gnats to swallow camels. Again will you denouce BLM/ Antifa as terrorist/racist groups? Because guess what I can have you here all day watching clip after ciip of those groups INITIATING RIOTS, BURNING< LOOTIND AND YES KILLING>

Please show one time that Proud boys has initiated any violence. They have definitely been a counter to the the antifa movement and that is why you ilk hate and want to get Trump to denounce them.

Your just a freaking hypocrite moose

---

He posted a video outlining why he hates the Jews. They go to White Nationalist, KKK and Neo-Nazi rallies. How can that not be any more clear for you? How does that make me a hypocrite? How is this controversial to denounce? Why are you defending hate?

That_Guy_Moose said:

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96AgGrad said:

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That_Guy_Moose said:

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96AgGrad said:

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That_Guy_Moose said:

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4stringAg said:

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That_Guy_Moose said:

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Evanhue said:

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Are the Proud Boys the left's new boogieman?
Good grief.

---

They're literal white supremecists dude.

---

They have Latinos and blacks in their ranks.

---

Oh so that justifies what they stand for?

Get real.

---

You seem to be the expert on them - What do they stand for? Whites that take pride in their country are automatically White Supremacists?

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So, just to be totally clear, you're totally fine with white supremacy as long as it's gift wrapped as "patriotism"?

These are people who have publicly supported to extermination of the Jews. This is not a winning argument for you, or for anyone, and it's disgusting to see them defended on this site.

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You still haven't told me what they stand for. I am aware of white supremacy is. I'm just trying to figure how you logically concluded that it's a platform of the Proud Boys. I mean other than a cynical political smear designed to hurt Republicans.

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Unreal. This site is straight up defending the Proud Boys. This is truly shameful, and honestly a pretty sad portrait of American views.

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Your two source basically say that the Anti-Defamation League and the Southern Poverty Law Center label the Proud Boys as a white supremacy hate group. Both conduct liberal propaganda for the left. The most honest thing that the SPLC did was to include themselves as a hate group.

Other than giving two examples from leftist sources that cite other leftist sources, please provide one example where the Proud Boys incited property destruction and violence without first being provoked by "an idea" or other leftist "peaceful protestors"?

Also, will you admit that Antifa and BLM are leftist terrorist organizations?

Do you condone black supremacy groups?

He posted a video outlining why he hates the Jews.

Link to that video and proof that is was McGann that posted it. I have spent a good amount of time doing what you have not done. Listening to vids where he actually speaks. i have never heard one antisemtic comment come out of his mouth. HOWEVER HE IS BOLDLY AND LOUDLY PROUD OF THE AMERICAN/WESTERN CULTURE. And he would definitely be against another 'culture' seeking to come to the US and supplant the traditional/US culture. I can see how someone like you would see that as antisemetic.

I myself do not want Islamic culture taking root in the US as one who lives in the Middle East.

I am mot anti Islam, just because I do not want that culture or way of life being established in the US.

Again, BLM is clearly racist and Marxist founded and we have their founders stating it. It is also backed by the Muslim Brotherhood. This is also fact and easily proven. Weill you denounce it Moose?

BuddysBud said:

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That_Guy_Moose said:

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96AgGrad said:

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That_Guy_Moose said:

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96AgGrad said:

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That_Guy_Moose said:

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4stringAg said:

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That_Guy_Moose said:

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Evanhue said:

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Are the Proud Boys the left's new boogieman?
Good grief.

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They're literal white supremecists dude.

---

They have Latinos and blacks in their ranks.

---

Oh so that justifies what they stand for?

Get real.

---

You seem to be the expert on them - What do they stand for? Whites that take pride in their country are automatically White Supremacists?

---

So, just to be totally clear, you're totally fine with white supremacy as long as it's gift wrapped as "patriotism"?

These are people who have publicly supported to extermination of the Jews. This is not a winning argument for you, or for anyone, and it's disgusting to see them defended on this site.

---

You still haven't told me what they stand for. I am aware of white supremacy is. I'm just trying to figure how you logically concluded that it's a platform of the Proud Boys. I mean other than a cynical political smear designed to hurt Republicans.

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Unreal. This site is straight up defending the Proud Boys. This is truly shameful, and honestly a pretty sad portrait of American views.

---

Your two source basically say that the Anti-Defamation League and the Southern Poverty Law Center label the Proud Boys as a white supremacy hate group. Both conduct liberal propaganda for the left. The most honest thing that the SPLC did was to include themselves as a hate group.

Other than giving two examples from leftist sources that cite other leftist sources, please provide one example where the Proud Boys incited property destruction and violence without first being provoked by "an idea" or other leftist "peaceful protestors"?

Also, will you admit that Antifa and BLM are leftist terrorist organizations?

Do you condone black supremacy groups?

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I have said FIVE times now in this thread that I disavow their violence and those who commit it deserve to have the full extent of the law thrown at them. Five times

But getting a single one of you to disavow the hateful rhetoric of the Proud Boys has been a truly eye opening exercise. You refuse to do it. Why? Why can you not denounce their hate and vitriol? Claiming my sources are leftist does not change anything. I have provided sources. Those sources have sources. Any google search can tell you the same thing. Why can you not denounce hate organizations for what they are? Why is that so controversial for you?

OPAG said:

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He posted a video outlining why he hates the Jews.

Link to that video and proof that is was McGann that posted it. I have spent a good amount of time doing what you have not done. Listening to vids where he actually speaks. i have never heard one antisemtic comment come out of his mouth. HOWEVER HE IS BOLDLY AND LOUDLY PROUD OF THE AMERICAN/WESTERN CULTURE. And he would definitely be against another 'culture' seeking to come to the US and supplant the traditional/US culture. I can see how someone like you would see that as antisemetic.

I myself do not want Islamic culture taking root in the US as one who lives in the Middle East.

I am mot anti Islam, just because I do not want that culture or way of life being established in the US.

Again, BLM is clearly racist and Marxist founded and we have their founders stating it. It is also backed by the Muslim Brotherhood. This is also fact and easily proven. Weill you denounce it Moose?

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Proof: https://www.salon.com/2017/03/16/bad-boy-gone-worse-is-vice-co-founder-gavin-mcinnes-flirting-with-a-dangerous-fringe/

More proof: https://www.nationalobserver.com/2017/03/15/news/rebel-media-defending-contributor-behind-repulsive-rant-was-praised-white

I have denounced leftist violence six times now in this thread, but you refuse to do the same for right wing violence and hate rhetoric. That is very telling.

That_Guy_Moose said:

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cisgenderedAggie said:

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That_Guy_Moose said:

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The Proud Boys actions over the last 4 years show their colors, and it is an indefensible record.

---

Do you agree that, for this reason, it is wrong to paint someone that refuses to raise their fist for BLM as a racist? Cities have been ravaged in the name of BLM for longer than 4 years.

---

They're not racist. No one should be coerced into doing something they don't want to do. BLM has many problems, I don't dispute that, I've never disputed that. If they break the law they deserve to have the book thrown at them.

My issue is that your deflection does not change anything about my original point. How many posters in here have flatly refused to condemn the Proud Boys and their bigoted, hateful rhetoric? Why are you all running point for these guys? Why can no one say simply, "I disavow the hateful, Anti-Semitic and White Nationalist rhetoric of the Proud Boys and it's members?"

---

I suppose I don't see my post as a deflection, it rather asking why what is good for the goose isn't for the gander. My perspective may be colored by being not especially woke but living in a location that has always been very left-wing. Ive been called a racist, by white people at that, for expressing discontent with BLM....while being a very brown Hispanic. "It's not the organization that's the problem, it's the individuals that claim to be part of it, but please pay little attention to what may or may not be said by their "leaders" or website." Can't say I'm seeing much difference in this thread with Proud Boys.

That's the problem with groups like this in today's environment. Affiliation with it becomes the story of you, because that's what I think it should be. Then we make everything in the world out of the tiniest nuance in someone's words stated in a heated exchange ("Stand by") as though it's reflective of some deeper meaning.

That_Guy_Moose said:

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OPAG said:

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He posted a video outlining why he hates the Jews.

Link to that video and proof that is was McGann that posted it. I have spent a good amount of time doing what you have not done. Listening to vids where he actually speaks. i have never heard one antisemtic comment come out of his mouth. HOWEVER HE IS BOLDLY AND LOUDLY PROUD OF THE AMERICAN/WESTERN CULTURE. And he would definitely be against another 'culture' seeking to come to the US and supplant the traditional/US culture. I can see how someone like you would see that as antisemetic.

I myself do not want Islamic culture taking root in the US as one who lives in the Middle East.

I am mot anti Islam, just because I do not want that culture or way of life being established in the US.

Again, BLM is clearly racist and Marxist founded and we have their founders stating it. It is also backed by the Muslim Brotherhood. This is also fact and easily proven. Weill you denounce it Moose?

---

Proof: https://www.salon.com/2017/03/16/bad-boy-gone-worse-is-vice-co-founder-gavin-mcinnes-flirting-with-a-dangerous-fringe/

More proof: https://www.nationalobserver.com/2017/03/15/news/rebel-media-defending-contributor-behind-repulsive-rant-was-praised-white

I have denounced leftist violence six times now in this thread, but you refuse to do the same for right wing violence and hate rhetoric. That is very telling.

---

The fact that you use Salon as a source is why you are still arguing on this thread. 99% of people on this site will see that and immediately dismiss you. Salon is leftist trash.

That_Guy_Moose said:

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OPAG said:

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Total BS Moose. You cannot just go out and be selective pick quotes that have been piecemealed together by those who have an agenda and then say that we should not even read the source itself. This is not only hypocricy it is unconstitutional.

I could make do the same to you Moose, I guarantee you I could interview you ask certain questions, and then extract the answers that I want to make it appear that you are what I have determined that you are .

You cannot make a judgement about someone until you actually hear from them, Yes? isn't that how our judicial system is supposed to work?

I have quote Adolf Hitler before, does that make me a Nazi? Please!

You are simply straining gnats to swallow camels. Again will you denouce BLM/ Antifa as terrorist/racist groups? Because guess what I can have you here all day watching clip after ciip of those groups INITIATING RIOTS, BURNING< LOOTIND AND YES KILLING>

Please show one time that Proud boys has initiated any violence. They have definitely been a counter to the the antifa movement and that is why you ilk hate and want to get Trump to denounce them.

Your just a freaking hypocrite moose

---

He posted a video outlining why he hates the Jews. They go to White Nationalist, KKK and Neo-Nazi rallies. How can that not be any more clear for you? How does that make me a hypocrite? How is this controversial to denounce? Why are you defending hate?

---

POTUS has already denounced white supremacists. Most people already know and nobody GAS if you think he needs to denounce again every time he's questioned. I'm perfectly fine with Trump saying "I've already answered your question" and moved on. It's a stupid talking point that keeps being brought up by dip****s. For example you've derailed the thread for 4 pages talking about this.

cisgenderedAggie said:

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That_Guy_Moose said:

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cisgenderedAggie said:

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That_Guy_Moose said:

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The Proud Boys actions over the last 4 years show their colors, and it is an indefensible record.

---

Do you agree that, for this reason, it is wrong to paint someone that refuses to raise their fist for BLM as a racist? Cities have been ravaged in the name of BLM for longer than 4 years.

---

They're not racist. No one should be coerced into doing something they don't want to do. BLM has many problems, I don't dispute that, I've never disputed that. If they break the law they deserve to have the book thrown at them.

My issue is that your deflection does not change anything about my original point. How many posters in here have flatly refused to condemn the Proud Boys and their bigoted, hateful rhetoric? Why are you all running point for these guys? Why can no one say simply, "I disavow the hateful, Anti-Semitic and White Nationalist rhetoric of the Proud Boys and it's members?"

---

I suppose I don't see my post as a deflection, it rather asking why what is good for the goose isn't for the gander. My perspective may be colored by being not especially woke but living in a location that has always been very left-wing. Ive been called a racist, by white people at that, for expressing discontent with BLM....while being a very brown Hispanic. "It's not the organization that's the problem, it's the individuals that claim to be part of it, but please pay little attention to what may or may not be said by their "leaders" or website." Can't say I'm seeing much difference in this thread with Proud Boys.

That's the problem with groups like this in today's environment. Affiliation with it becomes the story of you, because that's what I think it should be. Then we make everything in the world out of the tiniest nuance in someone's words stated in a heated exchange ("Stand by") as though it's reflective of some deeper meaning.

---

You refuse to denounce the organization because of the individuals but make blanket statements about BLM? You can't have it both ways.

Why do you refuse to denounce the hateful rhetoric of the Proud Boys and their ilk?

ChiefKiefton said:

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That_Guy_Moose said:

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OPAG said:

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He posted a video outlining why he hates the Jews.

Link to that video and proof that is was McGann that posted it. I have spent a good amount of time doing what you have not done. Listening to vids where he actually speaks. i have never heard one antisemtic comment come out of his mouth. HOWEVER HE IS BOLDLY AND LOUDLY PROUD OF THE AMERICAN/WESTERN CULTURE. And he would definitely be against another 'culture' seeking to come to the US and supplant the traditional/US culture. I can see how someone like you would see that as antisemetic.

I myself do not want Islamic culture taking root in the US as one who lives in the Middle East.

I am mot anti Islam, just because I do not want that culture or way of life being established in the US.

Again, BLM is clearly racist and Marxist founded and we have their founders stating it. It is also backed by the Muslim Brotherhood. This is also fact and easily proven. Weill you denounce it Moose?

---

Proof: https://www.salon.com/2017/03/16/bad-boy-gone-worse-is-vice-co-founder-gavin-mcinnes-flirting-with-a-dangerous-fringe/

More proof: https://www.nationalobserver.com/2017/03/15/news/rebel-media-defending-contributor-behind-repulsive-rant-was-praised-white

I have denounced leftist violence six times now in this thread, but you refuse to do the same for right wing violence and hate rhetoric. That is very telling.

---

The fact that you use Salon as a source is why you are still arguing on this thread. 99% of people on this site will see that and immediately dismiss you. Salon is leftist trash.

---

I have provided seven sources now. Stop deflecting. Why do you refuse to denounce Anti-semitism and white nationalism?

Because I don't really know them nor have I seen them destroy **** where I live. To be clear, I don't denounce BLM as an idea, but I refuse to lend it support or stand with it for what I've witnessed done in its name. Similarly, I would probably not lend support or stand with an organization that engages in hostile and destructive action against racial minorities...but I've seen no such actions.

Actions matter more than words. I see words in this thread, mostly from those that aren't part of said organization. I see a website that claims they do not stand for these things. I have no experience with this group or it's ideals beyond that. Can't say the same for BLM. I won't denounce any group or organization in 2020, or paint all its members with the same brush, just because someone says they are bad. I need to see something more real first.

That_Guy_Moose said:

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ChiefKiefton said:

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That_Guy_Moose said:

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OPAG said:

---

He posted a video outlining why he hates the Jews.

Link to that video and proof that is was McGann that posted it. I have spent a good amount of time doing what you have not done. Listening to vids where he actually speaks. i have never heard one antisemtic comment come out of his mouth. HOWEVER HE IS BOLDLY AND LOUDLY PROUD OF THE AMERICAN/WESTERN CULTURE. And he would definitely be against another 'culture' seeking to come to the US and supplant the traditional/US culture. I can see how someone like you would see that as antisemetic.

I myself do not want Islamic culture taking root in the US as one who lives in the Middle East.

I am mot anti Islam, just because I do not want that culture or way of life being established in the US.

Again, BLM is clearly racist and Marxist founded and we have their founders stating it. It is also backed by the Muslim Brotherhood. This is also fact and easily proven. Weill you denounce it Moose?

---

Proof: https://www.salon.com/2017/03/16/bad-boy-gone-worse-is-vice-co-founder-gavin-mcinnes-flirting-with-a-dangerous-fringe/

More proof: https://www.nationalobserver.com/2017/03/15/news/rebel-media-defending-contributor-behind-repulsive-rant-was-praised-white

I have denounced leftist violence six times now in this thread, but you refuse to do the same for right wing violence and hate rhetoric. That is very telling.

---

The fact that you use Salon as a source is why you are still arguing on this thread. 99% of people on this site will see that and immediately dismiss you. Salon is leftist trash.

---

I have provided seven sources now. Stop deflecting. Why do you refuse to denounce Anti-semitism and white nationalism?

---

How about starting your own thread "do you denounce white nationalism and anti-sematism"? People can star appropriately and you can get your attention. This thread wasn't about it until about 6 posts in where you brought it up (and the 4 pages after).

hairloom said:

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That_Guy_Moose said:

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ChiefKiefton said:

---

That_Guy_Moose said:

---

OPAG said:

---

He posted a video outlining why he hates the Jews.

Link to that video and proof that is was McGann that posted it. I have spent a good amount of time doing what you have not done. Listening to vids where he actually speaks. i have never heard one antisemtic comment come out of his mouth. HOWEVER HE IS BOLDLY AND LOUDLY PROUD OF THE AMERICAN/WESTERN CULTURE. And he would definitely be against another 'culture' seeking to come to the US and supplant the traditional/US culture. I can see how someone like you would see that as antisemetic.

I myself do not want Islamic culture taking root in the US as one who lives in the Middle East.

I am mot anti Islam, just because I do not want that culture or way of life being established in the US.

Again, BLM is clearly racist and Marxist founded and we have their founders stating it. It is also backed by the Muslim Brotherhood. This is also fact and easily proven. Weill you denounce it Moose?

---

Proof: https://www.salon.com/2017/03/16/bad-boy-gone-worse-is-vice-co-founder-gavin-mcinnes-flirting-with-a-dangerous-fringe/

More proof: https://www.nationalobserver.com/2017/03/15/news/rebel-media-defending-contributor-behind-repulsive-rant-was-praised-white

I have denounced leftist violence six times now in this thread, but you refuse to do the same for right wing violence and hate rhetoric. That is very telling.

---

The fact that you use Salon as a source is why you are still arguing on this thread. 99% of people on this site will see that and immediately dismiss you. Salon is leftist trash.

---

I have provided seven sources now. Stop deflecting. Why do you refuse to denounce Anti-semitism and white nationalism?

---

How about starting your own thread "do you denounce white nationalism and anti-sematism"? People can star appropriately and you can get your attention. This thread wasn't about it until about 6 posts in where you brought it up (and the 4 pages after).

---

He's clearly having a "that time of month" moment.

hairloom said:

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That_Guy_Moose said:

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ChiefKiefton said:

---

That_Guy_Moose said:

---

OPAG said:

---

He posted a video outlining why he hates the Jews.

Link to that video and proof that is was McGann that posted it. I have spent a good amount of time doing what you have not done. Listening to vids where he actually speaks. i have never heard one antisemtic comment come out of his mouth. HOWEVER HE IS BOLDLY AND LOUDLY PROUD OF THE AMERICAN/WESTERN CULTURE. And he would definitely be against another 'culture' seeking to come to the US and supplant the traditional/US culture. I can see how someone like you would see that as antisemetic.

I myself do not want Islamic culture taking root in the US as one who lives in the Middle East.

I am mot anti Islam, just because I do not want that culture or way of life being established in the US.

Again, BLM is clearly racist and Marxist founded and we have their founders stating it. It is also backed by the Muslim Brotherhood. This is also fact and easily proven. Weill you denounce it Moose?

---

Proof: https://www.salon.com/2017/03/16/bad-boy-gone-worse-is-vice-co-founder-gavin-mcinnes-flirting-with-a-dangerous-fringe/

More proof: https://www.nationalobserver.com/2017/03/15/news/rebel-media-defending-contributor-behind-repulsive-rant-was-praised-white

I have denounced leftist violence six times now in this thread, but you refuse to do the same for right wing violence and hate rhetoric. That is very telling.

---

The fact that you use Salon as a source is why you are still arguing on this thread. 99% of people on this site will see that and immediately dismiss you. Salon is leftist trash.

---

I have provided seven sources now. Stop deflecting. Why do you refuse to denounce Anti-semitism and white nationalism?

---

How about starting your own thread "do you denounce white nationalism and anti-sematism"? People can star appropriately and you can get your attention. This thread wasn't about it until about 6 posts in where you brought it up (and the 4 pages after).

---

I'm doing this because the amount of people who flatly refuse to simply say "I condemn white supremacy and anti-semitism" even when provided with clear evidence that an organization espouses it, is truly appalling.

That_Guy_Moose said:

---

ChiefKiefton said:

---

That_Guy_Moose said:

---

OPAG said:

---

He posted a video outlining why he hates the Jews.

Link to that video and proof that is was McGann that posted it. I have spent a good amount of time doing what you have not done. Listening to vids where he actually speaks. i have never heard one antisemtic comment come out of his mouth. HOWEVER HE IS BOLDLY AND LOUDLY PROUD OF THE AMERICAN/WESTERN CULTURE. And he would definitely be against another 'culture' seeking to come to the US and supplant the traditional/US culture. I can see how someone like you would see that as antisemetic.

I myself do not want Islamic culture taking root in the US as one who lives in the Middle East.

I am mot anti Islam, just because I do not want that culture or way of life being established in the US.

Again, BLM is clearly racist and Marxist founded and we have their founders stating it. It is also backed by the Muslim Brotherhood. This is also fact and easily proven. Weill you denounce it Moose?

---

Proof: https://www.salon.com/2017/03/16/bad-boy-gone-worse-is-vice-co-founder-gavin-mcinnes-flirting-with-a-dangerous-fringe/

More proof: https://www.nationalobserver.com/2017/03/15/news/rebel-media-defending-contributor-behind-repulsive-rant-was-praised-white

I have denounced leftist violence six times now in this thread, but you refuse to do the same for right wing violence and hate rhetoric. That is very telling.

---

The fact that you use Salon as a source is why you are still arguing on this thread. 99% of people on this site will see that and immediately dismiss you. Salon is leftist trash.

---

I have provided seven sources now. Stop deflecting. Why do you refuse to denounce Anti-semitism and white nationalism?

---

I denounce antisemitism and white nationalism, but a rinkydink group like the Proud Boys isn't the driving force behind riots across the country, Black Lives Matter and Antifa area. Why are you equating them?

Everyone on this thread denounces white supremacists. No one thinks the evidence you have provided that the "Proud Boys" are a white supremacist organization is credible.

HTH

That_Guy_Moose said:

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hairloom said:

---

That_Guy_Moose said:

---

ChiefKiefton said:

---

That_Guy_Moose said:

---

OPAG said:

---

He posted a video outlining why he hates the Jews.

Link to that video and proof that is was McGann that posted it. I have spent a good amount of time doing what you have not done. Listening to vids where he actually speaks. i have never heard one antisemtic comment come out of his mouth. HOWEVER HE IS BOLDLY AND LOUDLY PROUD OF THE AMERICAN/WESTERN CULTURE. And he would definitely be against another 'culture' seeking to come to the US and supplant the traditional/US culture. I can see how someone like you would see that as antisemetic.

I myself do not want Islamic culture taking root in the US as one who lives in the Middle East.

I am mot anti Islam, just because I do not want that culture or way of life being established in the US.

Again, BLM is clearly racist and Marxist founded and we have their founders stating it. It is also backed by the Muslim Brotherhood. This is also fact and easily proven. Weill you denounce it Moose?

---

Proof: https://www.salon.com/2017/03/16/bad-boy-gone-worse-is-vice-co-founder-gavin-mcinnes-flirting-with-a-dangerous-fringe/

More proof: https://www.nationalobserver.com/2017/03/15/news/rebel-media-defending-contributor-behind-repulsive-rant-was-praised-white

I have denounced leftist violence six times now in this thread, but you refuse to do the same for right wing violence and hate rhetoric. That is very telling.

---

The fact that you use Salon as a source is why you are still arguing on this thread. 99% of people on this site will see that and immediately dismiss you. Salon is leftist trash.

---

I have provided seven sources now. Stop deflecting. Why do you refuse to denounce Anti-semitism and white nationalism?

---

How about starting your own thread "do you denounce white nationalism and anti-sematism"? People can star appropriately and you can get your attention. This thread wasn't about it until about 6 posts in where you brought it up (and the 4 pages after).

---

I'm doing this because the amount of people who flatly refuse to simply say "I condemn white supremacy and anti-semitism" even when provided with clear evidence that an organization espouses it, is truly appalling.

---

LMAOOOOOOO. Here's the big hint. People aren't going to denounce it because of one thing.... The person asking it is not respected enough to get the answer they are looking for. It's not because people support white supremacists.

WhoopN06 said:

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Everyone on this thread denounces white supremacists. No one thinks the evidence you have provided that the "Proud Boys" are a white supremacist organization is credible.

HTH

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It's a strawman. Even if we agree with his assertion that they are white supremacists, he'll sidestep again when confronted with the fact that it isn't white supremacists that are burning down cities, killing cops, and looting businesses. It's antifa and black lives matter. Keep hitting him on that that instead of debating the strawman and he'll scurry away.

"I condemn white supremacy and anti-semitism"

Star this post if you denounce white supremacy in the exact wording of the control freak so he'll STFU

WhoopN06 said:

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Everyone on this thread denounces white supremacists. No one thinks the evidence you have provided that the "Proud Boys" are a white supremacist organization is credible.

HTH

---

It is credible. Their leaders have public actions that display as much. I have provided seven sources. I can keep providing them because there is so much documentation on this.

This shouldn't even be a controversial opinion. People are not saying they denounce them for what they are. They are being vociferously defended. That's appalling.

Moose, I will denounce hate groups.
BLM is a hate group. KKK is a hate group. Neo-Nazis are hate groups. ISIS is a hate group.
If I see real evidence, not DNC propaganda, that Proud Boys are a hate group, I will also denounce them. Right now it seems that Proud Boys are being portrayed by the DNC as the right's equivalent to antifa of the left. I will not condemn a group based on unsubstantiated propaganda.

Even if I disagree with what they say, however, I refuse to agree that these groups do not have a right to express their views, as long as they do it peacefully and do not call for violence.

Thus even if Proud Boys are a multi-ethnic white supremacy group, they have the right to peacefully assemble and express their views. Likewise with the KKK and neo-Nazis.

Likewise for BLM and Antifa. However, when antifa and BLM commit arson, theft, assault, battery, and murder they should forfeit their rights of free speech. This holds true for neo-Nazis and what's left of the the Democrats' KKK.

Likewise, no one has the right to physically attack someone else just because they disagree with their opinions.

People with Biden hats aren't being attacked. People with Obama hats were never attacked. People with MAGA hats are often attacked. Which side is intolerant?