They'd be better off buying a fleet of luxury buses, ala Megabus.

They claim that the ticket prices will be comparable to airline flights between the two cities. The cheapest flight I could find was on United, two months from now, at $39. The distance between the two cities is 240 miles. At 20 mpg, that is 12 gallons of gas. Assuming $2.50/gallon, that's $30. Stop at Buc-ee's on the way and it is almost a wash, not including vehicle ownership costs.

However, that is assuming you are traveling by yourself and do not have to pay for travel to and from the station on both ends. Add one person and the cost of the train doubles compared to the car

Gator92 said:

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Huge boondoggle. Taxpayer will be left to pay for when it goes bankrupt. Amtrak is federally subsidized. There are only 2 trains that make a profit. Still gonna have to get strip searched to board. Can I carry my gun?

If they are gonna do it anyway, why can't they use the existing I45 row? Elevate in median and over existing overpasses.

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I wouldnt think those two trains are still profitable given covid. And even before covid it was only profitable because of business people and lobbyists were able to write off the travel expenses traveling between NYC and DC. We'll see if that level of T&E comes back anytime soon.

AgOutsideAustin said:

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Will it at least slow down for a Bucees ?

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The million dollar question, right there.

Boon. Doggle.

Little Rock Ag said:

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They'd be better off buying a fleet of luxury buses, ala Megabus.

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Or buying a million Southwest Airlines tickets a year

The Texas railroad commission has yet to provide their input.

Look to California for instructions on how to properly implement high speed rail.

Quote:

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There are only 2 trains that make a profit.

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Which are those?

The only one I'm aware of is in Japan....completely different country, geography, cities, and culture.

And it's only profitable because the Japanese taxpayer built all the infrastructure, then gave it to the rail company.

texsn95 said:

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Look to California for instructions on how to properly implement high speed rail.

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It seems money would be better spent facilitating infrastructure for better autonomous driving along the current highway system. Maybe like adding RFID info to signs and markers and sensors to manage traffic flows. Or maybe helping current gas stations along highways to build charging stations for EVs.

Trains feel like last century technology.

I already thought this was a bad idea before The 'Rona and now it's even worse. No company is going to pay for employees to ride this train when any meeting they would do could just be done via Zoom/Teams/Whatever like it has since March 2020

No damn way am I getting on a train to dump me in Houston, even if they had 10 stops in a loop around the city. Chances of it coming near where I need to go are slim to none, and I still have to dick with transportation like a second car ($$$), Uber, Lyft, or a city bus full of homeless people. And just imagine the cost around Houston to put in a loop with 10 stations, and the parking lots surrounding them for people who have to park that second car. Crossings added all over the city, unless they went overhead, but that presents problems of it's own.

Yeah, that's a huge no from me dawg. Takes me 10 seconds to work out why it's a bad idea.


Trains were awesome when I visited Italy, if they ran on time. Our state isn't set up anything like that place. It won't work here.

SNES Chalmers said:

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Drive to train station: 30 minutes
Loading and depart: 30 minutes
Train ride: 90 minutes (MAYBE if it doesn't stop)
Arrival and getting secondary transportation: 30 minutes
Getting where you need to go: 30 minutes

Total Trip time: 3.5 hours


Driving from where you live Dallas to where you need to go in Houston: Around 3.5 hours.

I'm probably stretching a bit but WTF.

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Add on the multiple people you can put in your car vs. buying a ticket for each person. And luggage limits. Pets. "Restricted" items. Nobody is going to ride this.

PWestAg18 said:

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I already thought this was a bad idea before The 'Rona and now it's even worse. No company is going to pay for employees to ride this train when any meeting they would do could just be done via Zoom/Teams/Whatever like it has since March 2020

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Corona + self driving cars + already available airlines = no rail

TxTarpon said:

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Quote:

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I'm sure they did studies on the demand for something like this, but I just dont believe that people will ride this as much as those studies show.

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It would work if it was this way:
1. Load car or truck onto train.
2. Ride train.
3. Unload car or truck from train.
4. Drive as needed.
Repeat for home journey.

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This would work!!!!

Finish expanding 45 to three lanes before you spend money on this. JFC.

Sgt. Schultz said:

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TxTarpon said:

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Quote:

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I'm sure they did studies on the demand for something like this, but I just dont believe that people will ride this as much as those studies show.

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It would work if it was this way:
1. Load car or truck onto train.
2. Ride train.
3. Unload car or truck from train.
4. Drive as needed.
Repeat for home journey.

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This would work!!!!

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It would cost $1000 if they even made that an option. Worth it to not have to drive for 90 minutes of your trip?

Martin Q. Blank said:

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Sgt. Schultz said:

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TxTarpon said:

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Quote:

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I'm sure they did studies on the demand for something like this, but I just dont believe that people will ride this as much as those studies show.

---

It would work if it was this way:
1. Load car or truck onto train.
2. Ride train.
3. Unload car or truck from train.
4. Drive as needed.
Repeat for home journey.

---

This would work!!!!

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It would cost $1000 if they even made that an option. Worth it to not have to drive for 90 minutes of your trip?

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This is the only way it would work, much like the ferry system in the Pacific Northwest. You pay something like $30 a car and you get to ride and walk around for an an hour or so. Since it is on its own tracks, custom cars can be developed to make loading/unloading easier and faster. Don't they do something similar in Europe between England and France in the "Chunnel"???? Regardless, if they are just going to rely on normal ridership, this thing doesn't stand a chance.

In Houston the line ends OTL at the old defunct NW Mall. The entire Hempstead Highway rail corridor will have to be rebuilt.

And no light rail to bring you to the city. So Uber or bus. And...no bus only lanes to get you to 10.

CanyonAg77 said:

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Quote:

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There are only 2 trains that make a profit.

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Which are those?

The only one I'm aware of is in Japan....completely different country, geography, cities, and culture.

And it's only profitable because the Japanese taxpayer built all the infrastructure, then gave it to the rail company.

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Researched this several yrs ago. Things probably have changed and I'm sure it is only profitable v operation and maintenance costs.

Then it was NY/DC and London/Paris.

https://mailchi.mp/texansagainsthsr/rodstatement

I really wish, instead of this, they would've focused on providing network hub rail transportation for all of the main areas in the Greater Houston Area to primary areas in and around the city. Could you imagine monorail from Galveston to Houston with stops at Texas City, Nasa Rd 1/Bay Area Blvd, BWY 8, and 610? I really enjoyed the hub style transport in the Netherlands. Never needed a car.

I have family in Forney and I live in a north houston suburb. There is no way a train from downtown Houston to downtown Dallas makes that trip faster.

Drive to Houston, wait for train, ride train, get rental car or wait for family, drive to Forney. That's 3.5 hours easy and I can drive there in that amount of time and not have to rent a car or pay for train tickets for the family. Dumb idea.

Most people in Houston and Dallas areas live in the suburbs.

Sgt. Schultz said:

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Martin Q. Blank said:

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Sgt. Schultz said:

---

TxTarpon said:

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Quote:

---

I'm sure they did studies on the demand for something like this, but I just dont believe that people will ride this as much as those studies show.

---

It would work if it was this way:
1. Load car or truck onto train.
2. Ride train.
3. Unload car or truck from train.
4. Drive as needed.
Repeat for home journey.

---

This would work!!!!

---

It would cost $1000 if they even made that an option. Worth it to not have to drive for 90 minutes of your trip?

---

This is the only way it would work, much like the ferry system in the Pacific Northwest. You pay something like $30 a car and you get to ride and walk around for an an hour or so. Since it is on its own tracks, custom cars can be developed to make loading/unloading easier and faster. Don't they do something similar in Europe between England and France in the "Chunnel"???? Regardless, if they are just going to rely on normal ridership, this thing doesn't stand a chance.

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Yes the Chunnel cost for a car is 49 pounds which is about $62. That is per car.

So that works pretty well actually for a business person or family on travel between the cities.

It would likely be more than that the chunnel distance is only 31.5 miles. But maybe even as much as $125 for a car is still cheaper than getting transportation on both ends or at least one end and paying for parking on the other end.

They need to make that happen. Even if you get there 30 minutes before and it takes 90 minutes at 2 hours you are way ahead and a lot less stress from the drive.


Not that hard to do...

I've never read that DC/NY or London/Paris turned a profit.

Like you, I think that IF they do, it's like on operating costs, only, not when you consider capital costs.

And London/Paris/NY/DC are totally different than Dallas/Houston in density and public transport.

Central Paris, for instance, has a population density of around 56,000 people per square mile. Dallas is about 3,800

This is all going to come down to a texas supreme court ruling. Does a privately owned rail line that has one stop satisfy the requirements for getting eminent domain status? A rail line has to serve the areas it gets ED from, does one stop convey that?

Hopefully the state supreme court will rule that one stop across 300 miles does not count as serving.

Gator92 said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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Quote:

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There are only 2 trains that make a profit.

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Which are those?

The only one I'm aware of is in Japan....completely different country, geography, cities, and culture.

And it's only profitable because the Japanese taxpayer built all the infrastructure, then gave it to the rail company.

---

Researched this several yrs ago. Things probably have changed and I'm sure it is only profitable v operation and maintenance costs.

Then it was NY/DC and London/Paris.

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If I recall correctly, the profitable French high speed line was the one from Paris to Avignon--the first high speed line, and a lot cheaper to build.

NY to DC runs mostly on freight lines, so its capital cost is minimal, but, as a result of the shared lines, it's not as quick or efficient as European high speed lines If Amtrack were allowed to abandon its unprofitable lines, they might be able to acquire more passenger only right of way in this corridor and run it profitably, but politics keeps that from happening.

halfastros81 said:

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I suppose someone that lives in the Houston area and commutes to Dallas weekly or vice versa could leave a car parked near the train station on each end. Doesn't seem like it would make economic sense tho. Uber or Lyft another option.

Isn't this all privately funded? If so the investors are taking the business risk but no public $ should be used. That's been the issue in the past with these type of project I suspect. They fail before they are even in service and then public $ finish them.

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The private funding claim has been a lie from the beginning--they were always planning to take advantage of federally backed loans (which, I suspect, is what this federal "approval" is actually about) because the money isn't there to back this thing as a purely private venture. Now, they are going beyond that and looking for federal subsidies claiming Covid losses.