John_Cocktolstoy said:

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Ag4coal said:

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John_Cocktolstoy said:

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Ag4coal said:

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I read the link you posted (see, it's not hard to post someone's work unlike the blogger). I disagree with certain points of his, I agree with the overarching view of view point enforcement being a bad thing. Nothing that i saw there that would lead me to think he's a bad person or not right about many other things.

I'm sure you would agree that we can't throw out all of a person's work when we don't agree 100%. Most of his work is well researched and well explained. I guess the fact that he left Marxism colors his view on the homeless and unemployed. I'm sure once upon a time he was much more sympathetic.

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You're sure it does? What evidence do you have?

There's the issue. Some people think with their feelings when they don't have facts. Some people let facts lead the way.

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Am I sure what ("it") does something? What am i supposed to be providing evidence for?

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You cited" the fact he left Marxism..." That's the "it."

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Sowell has said that he was a Marxist "during the decade of my 20s;" accordingly, one of his earliest professional publications was a sympathetic examination of Marxist thought vs. MarxistLeninist practice.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Sowell#cite_note-7][7][/url] However, his experience working as a federal government intern during the summer of 1960 caused him to reject Marxian economics in favor of free market economic theory. During his work, Sowell discovered an association between the rise of mandated minimum wages for workers in the sugar industry of Puerto Rico and the rise of unemployment in that industry. Studying the patterns led Sowell to theorize that the government employees who administered the minimum wage law cared more about their own jobs than the plight of the poor.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Sowell#cite_note-Salon-8][8][/url]

From his wiki page

Ag4coal said:

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John_Cocktolstoy said:

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Ag4coal said:

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John_Cocktolstoy said:

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Ag4coal said:

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I read the link you posted (see, it's not hard to post someone's work unlike the blogger). I disagree with certain points of his, I agree with the overarching view of view point enforcement being a bad thing. Nothing that i saw there that would lead me to think he's a bad person or not right about many other things.

I'm sure you would agree that we can't throw out all of a person's work when we don't agree 100%. Most of his work is well researched and well explained. I guess the fact that he left Marxism colors his view on the homeless and unemployed. I'm sure once upon a time he was much more sympathetic.

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You're sure it does? What evidence do you have?

There's the issue. Some people think with their feelings when they don't have facts. Some people let facts lead the way.

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Am I sure what ("it") does something? What am i supposed to be providing evidence for?

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You cited" the fact he left Marxism..." That's the "it."

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Sowell has said that he was a Marxist "during the decade of my 20s;" accordingly, one of his earliest professional publications was a sympathetic examination of Marxist thought vs. MarxistLeninist practice.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Sowell#cite_note-7][7][/url] However, his experience working as a federal government intern during the summer of 1960 caused him to reject Marxian economics in favor of free market economic theory. During his work, Sowell discovered an association between the rise of mandated minimum wages for workers in the sugar industry of Puerto Rico and the rise of unemployment in that industry. Studying the patterns led Sowell to theorize that the government employees who administered the minimum wage law cared more about their own jobs than the plight of the poor.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Sowell#cite_note-Salon-8][8][/url]

From his wiki page

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I know he was a Marxist. I'm saying that you assume his past colors his present view. What evidence do you have that it impacts his conclusions?

Ellis Wyatt said:

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PabloSerna said:

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I like how the immediate reaction is to character slam anyone - leave the arguments and logic out of it by all means.

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Uh, you did that, sport.

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A quick reminder to everyone that nearly 100% of accusations from leftists involve projection. They accuse you of doing EXACTLY what they are doing. Every damn time.

PabloSerna said:

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I like how the immediate reaction is to character slam anyone - leave the arguments and logic out of it by all means.

Deep water scares people.

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Post a critique that is deep water and I will be glad to jump in. What you've posted as a serious critical look at Sowell is not serious. So how can you expect us to take it seriously?

Posting this blog post as an example of a Sowell detractor makes me wonder if you've even read much of Sowell's work. Even people that vigorously disagree with Sowell, but at least have read his work would not post something so devoid of serious critical thinking.

John_Cocktolstoy said:

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Ag4coal said:

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John_Cocktolstoy said:

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Ag4coal said:

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John_Cocktolstoy said:

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Ag4coal said:

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I read the link you posted (see, it's not hard to post someone's work unlike the blogger). I disagree with certain points of his, I agree with the overarching view of view point enforcement being a bad thing. Nothing that i saw there that would lead me to think he's a bad person or not right about many other things.

I'm sure you would agree that we can't throw out all of a person's work when we don't agree 100%. Most of his work is well researched and well explained. I guess the fact that he left Marxism colors his view on the homeless and unemployed. I'm sure once upon a time he was much more sympathetic.

---

You're sure it does? What evidence do you have?

There's the issue. Some people think with their feelings when they don't have facts. Some people let facts lead the way.

---

Am I sure what ("it") does something? What am i supposed to be providing evidence for?

---

You cited" the fact he left Marxism..." That's the "it."

---

Sowell has said that he was a Marxist "during the decade of my 20s;" accordingly, one of his earliest professional publications was a sympathetic examination of Marxist thought vs. MarxistLeninist practice.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Sowell#cite_note-7][7][/url] However, his experience working as a federal government intern during the summer of 1960 caused him to reject Marxian economics in favor of free market economic theory. During his work, Sowell discovered an association between the rise of mandated minimum wages for workers in the sugar industry of Puerto Rico and the rise of unemployment in that industry. Studying the patterns led Sowell to theorize that the government employees who administered the minimum wage law cared more about their own jobs than the plight of the poor.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Sowell#cite_note-Salon-8][8][/url]

From his wiki page

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I know he was a Marxist. I'm saying that you assume his past colors his present view. What evidence do you have that it impacts his conclusions?

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To be fair, I said "I guess" when starting down that train of thought. I thought it was clear that this was my assumption at this point. I don't think I need to post sources for my assumption. However, i think it's a reasonable assumption that anyone who has studied Marxism can come to. Say what you will about marxists, they definitely don't **** on the homeless when that's who they use to prop up their cause. Then he moved on to a capitalistic view of economics. It's not evidence, but it's also not my feelings

Ag4coal said:

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John_Cocktolstoy said:

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Ag4coal said:

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John_Cocktolstoy said:

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Ag4coal said:

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John_Cocktolstoy said:

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Ag4coal said:

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I read the link you posted (see, it's not hard to post someone's work unlike the blogger). I disagree with certain points of his, I agree with the overarching view of view point enforcement being a bad thing. Nothing that i saw there that would lead me to think he's a bad person or not right about many other things.

I'm sure you would agree that we can't throw out all of a person's work when we don't agree 100%. Most of his work is well researched and well explained. I guess the fact that he left Marxism colors his view on the homeless and unemployed. I'm sure once upon a time he was much more sympathetic.

---

You're sure it does? What evidence do you have?

There's the issue. Some people think with their feelings when they don't have facts. Some people let facts lead the way.

---

Am I sure what ("it") does something? What am i supposed to be providing evidence for?

---

You cited" the fact he left Marxism..." That's the "it."

---

Sowell has said that he was a Marxist "during the decade of my 20s;" accordingly, one of his earliest professional publications was a sympathetic examination of Marxist thought vs. MarxistLeninist practice.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Sowell#cite_note-7][7][/url] However, his experience working as a federal government intern during the summer of 1960 caused him to reject Marxian economics in favor of free market economic theory. During his work, Sowell discovered an association between the rise of mandated minimum wages for workers in the sugar industry of Puerto Rico and the rise of unemployment in that industry. Studying the patterns led Sowell to theorize that the government employees who administered the minimum wage law cared more about their own jobs than the plight of the poor.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Sowell#cite_note-Salon-8][8][/url]

From his wiki page

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I know he was a Marxist. I'm saying that you assume his past colors his present view. What evidence do you have that it impacts his conclusions?

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To be fair, I said "I guess" when starting down that train of thought. I thought it was clear that this was my assumption at this point. I don't think I need to post sources for my assumption. However, i think it's a reasonable assumption that anyone who has studied Marxism can come to. Say what you will about marxists, they definitely don't **** on the homeless when that's who they use to prop up their cause. Then he moved on to a capitalistic view of economics. It's not evidence, but it's also not my feelings

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What makes you think he doesn't care about the homeless and unemployed? Where's that coming from

GE said:

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Ag4coal said:

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John_Cocktolstoy said:

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Ag4coal said:

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John_Cocktolstoy said:

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Ag4coal said:

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John_Cocktolstoy said:

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Ag4coal said:

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I read the link you posted (see, it's not hard to post someone's work unlike the blogger). I disagree with certain points of his, I agree with the overarching view of view point enforcement being a bad thing. Nothing that i saw there that would lead me to think he's a bad person or not right about many other things.

I'm sure you would agree that we can't throw out all of a person's work when we don't agree 100%. Most of his work is well researched and well explained. I guess the fact that he left Marxism colors his view on the homeless and unemployed. I'm sure once upon a time he was much more sympathetic.

---

You're sure it does? What evidence do you have?

There's the issue. Some people think with their feelings when they don't have facts. Some people let facts lead the way.

---

Am I sure what ("it") does something? What am i supposed to be providing evidence for?

---

You cited" the fact he left Marxism..." That's the "it."

---

Sowell has said that he was a Marxist "during the decade of my 20s;" accordingly, one of his earliest professional publications was a sympathetic examination of Marxist thought vs. MarxistLeninist practice.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Sowell#cite_note-7][7][/url] However, his experience working as a federal government intern during the summer of 1960 caused him to reject Marxian economics in favor of free market economic theory. During his work, Sowell discovered an association between the rise of mandated minimum wages for workers in the sugar industry of Puerto Rico and the rise of unemployment in that industry. Studying the patterns led Sowell to theorize that the government employees who administered the minimum wage law cared more about their own jobs than the plight of the poor.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Sowell#cite_note-Salon-8][8][/url]

From his wiki page

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I know he was a Marxist. I'm saying that you assume his past colors his present view. What evidence do you have that it impacts his conclusions?

---

To be fair, I said "I guess" when starting down that train of thought. I thought it was clear that this was my assumption at this point. I don't think I need to post sources for my assumption. However, i think it's a reasonable assumption that anyone who has studied Marxism can come to. Say what you will about marxists, they definitely don't **** on the homeless when that's who they use to prop up their cause. Then he moved on to a capitalistic view of economics. It's not evidence, but it's also not my feelings

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What makes you think he doesn't care about the homeless and unemployed? Where's that coming from

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Don't think he's implying Sowell doesn't care. More that Marxists won't say anything negative about them or their situation because they need the homeless and unemployed vote to gain and maintain power.

I'm waiting for what Lebron and Kap think.

Notice also, that it is hard to avoid the impression if Democrats didn't dominate the city governments where they do as long as have, there wouldn't be as much of these incidents. The correspondence is striking.

Not sure what your point in quoting Tariq's nonsensical tweet was, but the excerpt is from Sowell's chapter on slavery in "Black Rednecks and White Liberals." It's an outstanding book, covering the history of slavery in both Western and non-Western cultures, Jewish immigrant economical and social success, German culture, and achievements vs myths of black education. Oh, yes, he also explains what "black redneck" means. One of his most relevant books right now.

John_Cocktolstoy said:

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I know he was a Marxist. I'm saying that you assume his past colors his present view. What evidence do you have that it impacts his conclusions?

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If you are an open thinker, and then take an economics course from Milton Friedman and come out of that class as a Marxist, you have every possible argument for that way of thinking solidified. He was a Marxist because that was a logical explanation on why wealth distribution is what it is.

Then he takes a government job and realized that Friedman was right.

Of course it effects his viewpoint, because he firmly believed and was able to articulate the arguments of Marxism that described his experiences as a young person, but was then able to resoundingly reject those assumptions based on his new real world experiences.

He couldn't explain the government's behavior under a Marxist view of the world, it was a paradox.

He could under a view of the world that was based on incentives.

If you observe a contradiction, you need to challenge your assumptions.

No one can argue with him about the reasons Marxism would work, because he had considered and believed all of them (once upon a time) before you ever bring them up to him.

I resoundingly reject this.

Take away everything that Sowell has ever said about race, racial inequality, racial tension, culture, and focus just on his discussion about Marxism vs Capitalism, and he is still one of the most articulate and approachable defenders of the free market of his era.

Basic Economics and Knowledge and Decisions are silent about race.

Wait. Are you posting Tariq's tweet to illustrate what race hustling simpletons are saying about Sowell, or is Tariq's opinion actually one you respect?

chimpanzee said:

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Ellis Wyatt said:

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chimpanzee said:

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Sowell deals in air tight intellectual honesty, many can't recognize or value that form of rhetoric.

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Many others can't comprehend it.

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Honestly it's almost unsporting watching some people whose exposure to facts is so limited to a particular intellectual bubble trying to argue points that have been rebutted so thoroughly.

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The leftist is honestly either too stupid, simply not wired in the proper manner or possibly too lazy to understand or comprehend critical thinking or air tight intellectual honesty etc... if they could, they would not be leftist ......this is the problem.

You could hand Sowell books out to the left for free and the lions share wouldn't read them, much less comprehend them if they did. They largely simply don't care to actually educate themselves. They'd laugh about it, burn it, destroy it or simply set it aside with a predetermined notion of its insignificance as conservative dribble. In their minds why should they trouble themselves with learning anything they are already soooo smart just ask anyone of them.

They don't care about anything but what they want or, what they have been told they want and further they have determined that to be all their idea ! First and foremost it's really all about promoting themselves. Face it, we're up against an army of imbeciles, time to treat them as such.

from tariq's twitter bio:

Quote:

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I'm the world's #1 Race Baiter. I bait racists & expose them-Get involved with our fight for justice

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he's an absolute moron.

He had a fun debate with Andrew Schulz a few years ago.

BusterAg said:

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I resoundingly reject this.

Take away everything that Sowell has ever said about race, racial inequality, racial tension, culture, and focus just on his discussion about Marxism vs Capitalism, and he is still one of the most articulate and approachable defenders of the free market of his era.

Basic Economics and Knowledge and Decisions are silent about race.

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Sowell is a fraud. He is only quoted by the right wing and corporatist hacks. I've followed his buffoonery for 20 years. His prescriptions have been wrong for that entire time.

He is against the minimum wage, labor unions, food stamps, government food aid for infants (WIC), parole for the incarcerated, affirmative-action, government subsidized housing (Section 8), the US post office, homeless shelters, drug-rehab programs, and government paid for lawyers for the indigent (Legal Aid).

He is also pro- death penalty. I could go on but you can figure out who this turd is. After decades of this displayed dementia, I don't care what he has to say; he is a discredited fool.

If there was a worst take of the day I think this just might be it. Even if you disagreed with his stances his ability to convey them is a beautiful art.

BoxingAg84 said:

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He is against the minimum wage, labor unions, food stamps, government food aid for infants (WIC), parole for the incarcerated, affirmative-action, government subsidized housing (Section 8), the US post office, homeless shelters, drug-rehab programs, and government paid for lawyers for the indigent (Legal Aid).

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90% of this is not only not good public policy. Every single thing you've listed causes the government to destort the marketplace, labor market, and the charity market. Creating a free market without government intrusion would produce desired results more efficiently and effectively.

But also, saying Sowell is "against" this entire list is a mischaracterization of his positon. He's against the way the government is involved in these things. That's a very different thing.

BoxingAg84 said:

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BusterAg said:

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I resoundingly reject this.

Take away everything that Sowell has ever said about race, racial inequality, racial tension, culture, and focus just on his discussion about Marxism vs Capitalism, and he is still one of the most articulate and approachable defenders of the free market of his era.

Basic Economics and Knowledge and Decisions are silent about race.

---

Sowell is a fraud. He is only quoted by the right wing and corporatist hacks. I've followed his buffoonery for 20 years. His prescriptions have been wrong for that entire time.

He is against the minimum wage, labor unions, food stamps, government food aid for infants (WIC), parole for the incarcerated, affirmative-action, government subsidized housing (Section 8), the US post office, homeless shelters, drug-rehab programs, and government paid for lawyers for the indigent (Legal Aid).

He is also pro- death penalty. I could go on but you can figure out who this turd is. After decades of this displayed dementia, I don't care what he has to say; he is a discredited fool.

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economic genius here.

policywonk98 said:

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BoxingAg84 said:

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He is against the minimum wage, labor unions, food stamps, government food aid for infants (WIC), parole for the incarcerated, affirmative-action, government subsidized housing (Section 8), the US post office, homeless shelters, drug-rehab programs, and government paid for lawyers for the indigent (Legal Aid).

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90% of this is not only not good public policy. Every single thing you've listed causes the government to destort the marketplace, labor market, and the charity market. Creating a free market without government intrusion would produce desired results more efficiently and effectively.

But also, saying Sowell is "against" this entire list is a mischaracterization of his positon. He's against the way the government is involved in these things. That's a very different thing.

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No other response is needed. This one sums it up.

Care to address a single one of his assertions in his books by countering his data or offering another explanation for his data? Or are you just going to spew forth bleeding heart keywords and cry about his morality?

policywonk98 said:

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BoxingAg84 said:

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He is against the minimum wage, labor unions, food stamps, government food aid for infants (WIC), parole for the incarcerated, affirmative-action, government subsidized housing (Section 8), the US post office, homeless shelters, drug-rehab programs, and government paid for lawyers for the indigent (Legal Aid).

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90% of this is not only not good public policy. Every single thing you've listed causes the government to destort the marketplace, labor market, and the charity market. Creating a free market without government intrusion would produce desired results more efficiently and effectively.

But also, saying Sowell is "against" this entire list is a mischaracterization of his positon. He's against the way the government is involved in these things. That's a very different thing.

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I just did a quick search on is writings on all of these topics. Not shockingly, Wonk is right. Come on Box, do better. He's obviously states his positions eloquently and in a way that could be intellectually discussed. "Against" isn't fair at all.

BoxingAg84 said:

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BusterAg said:

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I resoundingly reject this.

Take away everything that Sowell has ever said about race, racial inequality, racial tension, culture, and focus just on his discussion about Marxism vs Capitalism, and he is still one of the most articulate and approachable defenders of the free market of his era.

Basic Economics and Knowledge and Decisions are silent about race.

---

Sowell is a fraud. He is only quoted by the right wing and corporatist hacks. I've followed his buffoonery for 20 years. His prescriptions have been wrong for that entire time.

He is against the minimum wage, labor unions, food stamps, government food aid for infants (WIC), parole for the incarcerated, affirmative-action, government subsidized housing (Section 8), the US post office, homeless shelters, drug-rehab programs, and government paid for lawyers for the indigent (Legal Aid).

He is also pro- death penalty. I could go on but you can figure out who this turd is. After decades of this displayed dementia, I don't care what he has to say; he is a discredited fool.

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A clearer example of the unconstrained vision would be difficult to find.

Ag4coal said:

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policywonk98 said:

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BoxingAg84 said:

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He is against the minimum wage, labor unions, food stamps, government food aid for infants (WIC), parole for the incarcerated, affirmative-action, government subsidized housing (Section 8), the US post office, homeless shelters, drug-rehab programs, and government paid for lawyers for the indigent (Legal Aid).

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90% of this is not only not good public policy. Every single thing you've listed causes the government to destort the marketplace, labor market, and the charity market. Creating a free market without government intrusion would produce desired results more efficiently and effectively.

But also, saying Sowell is "against" this entire list is a mischaracterization of his positon. He's against the way the government is involved in these things. That's a very different thing.

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I just did a quick search on is writings on all of these topics. Not shockingly, Wonk is right. Come on Box, do better. He's obviously states his positions eloquently and in a way that could be intellectually discussed. "Against" isn't fair at all.

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Part and parcel of the unconstrained vision. They think that wanting the right outcome is all that matters, regardless of whether it actually comes to pass or not. The notion of bad incentives, unintended consequences, or plain old inefficiency, incompetence, and corruption don't actually make much of a difference to them.

BoxingAg84 said:

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BusterAg said:

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I resoundingly reject this.

Take away everything that Sowell has ever said about race, racial inequality, racial tension, culture, and focus just on his discussion about Marxism vs Capitalism, and he is still one of the most articulate and approachable defenders of the free market of his era.

Basic Economics and Knowledge and Decisions are silent about race.

---

Sowell is a fraud. He is only quoted by the right wing and corporatist hacks. I've followed his buffoonery for 20 years. His prescriptions have been wrong for that entire time.

He is against the minimum wage, labor unions, food stamps, government food aid for infants (WIC), parole for the incarcerated, affirmative-action, government subsidized housing (Section 8), the US post office, homeless shelters, drug-rehab programs, and government paid for lawyers for the indigent (Legal Aid).

He is also pro- death penalty. I could go on but you can figure out who this turd is. After decades of this displayed dementia, I don't care what he has to say; he is a discredited fool.

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What makes your opinion on how great an economist is matter?

What's the over / under on the number of distinguished economists that are going to thoroughly disagree with you in the next decade?

I'll take the over at 10.

And by distinguished, I mean Nobel Laureates, professors of economics at an Ivy league or Chicago, cabinet level government economists, members of the Fed board, and the like.

Let me know if you want in on that action.

Have you ever considered teaching anthropology? You seem like a natural.

PabloSerna said:

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He does have his detractors though. I think he is well meaning, but misguided.

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Translation: "He's an Uncle Ton, and not really Black."