aggiehawg said:

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Quote:

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He conditioned official acts and illegally (?? still in dispute) impounded public funds

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The temporary withholding of the lethal military aid was an official act.

Not setting a White House meeting is not an official act.

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It would be an official act in this context. Heads of state meetings aren't granted to just anyone. It was something Zelensky valued, Trump knew and leveraged it

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hbthedeuce:
And conditioning official acts is not a crime, nor corrupt, without the official taking "something of value" in return.


An investigation, or announcement of an investigation, isn't "something of value". Trump pressuring Ukraine to stay at his hotels would fit the bill.

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And yet we in an impeachment trial, proving that it can be triggered arbitrarily, by hostile politics alone.

It is NOT like a criminal indictment which at least requires an alleged crime. It can't be assigned to someone even before a crime took place as the Democrats did in Nov 2016 and re-stated in Jan 2017.

Chance Chase McMasters said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Quote:

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He conditioned official acts and illegally (?? still in dispute) impounded public funds

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The temporary withholding of the lethal military aid was an official act.

Not setting a White House meeting is not an official act.

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It would be an official act in this context. Heads of state meetings aren't granted to just anyone. It was something Zelensky valued, Trump knew and leveraged it

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Doesn't matter, Trump received nothing of value in return.

Chance Chase McMasters said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Quote:

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He conditioned official acts and illegally (?? still in dispute) impounded public funds

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The temporary withholding of the lethal military aid was an official act.

Not setting a White House meeting is not an official act.

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It would be an official act in this context. Heads of state meetings aren't granted to just anyone. It was something Zelensky valued, Trump knew and leveraged it

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Supreme court says no

Put chance/Gary on ignore and the level of utter stupidity in your life will decrease exponentially.

The house democrats passed extremely dubious articles of impeachment to a political body they don't control. What, exactly, are they expecting?

And that raises the bigger question: who on earth is in charge of the democrats at a national level that would ever let them pull a stunt like this? The risk is massive and the reward is none (an unwinnable political fight).

Treason is a crime that is defined in the Constitution.

hbtheduce said:

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An investigation, or announcement of an investigation, isn't "something of value".

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Disagree and so does Donald Trump. That's why he denies it and is attempting to cover it up.

Facing Bernie instead of Biden in the general has immense perceived value to Trump, he's practically campaigning for him.

hbtheduce said:

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And conditioning official acts is not a crime, nor corrupt, without the official taking "something of value" in return.


An investigation, or announcement of an investigation, isn't "something of value". Trump pressuring Ukraine to stay at his hotels would fit the bill.

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Isn't it interesting that the allegation of campaign finance violations are not trumpeted in the articles of impeachment?

I mean so much crap was thrown against the wall but when it came time to put it on paper, they all fell away. And that was by design, I think. As I type this Dem Senators are throwing charges out there that have nothing to do with what is actually alleged in the articles itself, which is a whole lot of nothing.

hbtheduce said:

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Chance Chase McMasters said:

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The Constitution is a real law. There were no statutory laws when it was written.

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The constitution is not a law

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Rubbish. The Constitution is the highest law.


Edit: True it is obviously not a set of criminal laws. But impeachment is a constitutional proceeding, not a criminal proceeding.

How are those receipts coming? You put a lot of hope in those things a few days ago.

titan said:

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Quote:

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hbthedeuce:
And conditioning official acts is not a crime, nor corrupt, without the official taking "something of value" in return.


An investigation, or announcement of an investigation, isn't "something of value". Trump pressuring Ukraine to stay at his hotels would fit the bill.

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And yet we in an impeachment trial, proving that it can be triggered arbitrarily, by hostile politics alone.

It is NOT like a criminal indictment which at least requires an alleged crime. It can't be assigned to someone even before a crime took place as the Democrats did in Nov 2016 and re-stated in Jan 2017.

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True, impeachment is a political process. Its also a political process to point out to mouth-breathers that no crime (outside of possibly impoundment, the most boring crime ever) has been committed.

Its also why IDGAF if the Rs in Senate throw out the entire case. This is a trial for the court of public opinion. AKA should we reelect Trump. If it Rs thinks it looks good to toss the whole thing. Toss it. If they want to take the next month to score political points, dunk on democrats, while several senators running for eleciton have to sit there and take it.

Heck give Trump a "state of the union" in the senate for an hour. Let the trial run through the democratic nomination. See who is left standing. Democrats gave Senate Rs a double-edged sword. Reps could very well hurt themselves wielding it, but an immense amount of power for the "good guys". Its why Pelosi sat on it for a couple weeks.

Chance Chase McMasters said:

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hbtheduce said:

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Chance Chase McMasters said:

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The Constitution is a real law. There were no statutory laws when it was written.

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The constitution is not a law

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Rubbish. The Constitution is the highest law.


Edit: True it is obviously not a set of criminal laws. But impeachment is a constitutional proceeding, not a criminal proceeding.

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Answer the question.

Was the line-item veto a crime?
Is passing an unconstitutional law a crime?

Chance Chase McMasters said:

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hbtheduce said:

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An investigation, or announcement of an investigation, isn't "something of value".

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Disagree and so does Donald Trump. That's why he denies it and is attempting to cover it up.

Facing Bernie instead of Biden in the general has immense perceived value to Trump, he's practically campaigning for him.

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Actually, no, its very obvious the DNC-MSM cabal is indeed rigging the election against Bernie and setting up to choose the nominee like they always do and did in 2016.

So Trump is just stating the very apparent obvious since both the debates and the NYT endorsement (which lays the path for the MSM in general)

Aggiebrewer said:

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He will ignore your post

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He should. He is obviously smarter than every member of the Supreme Court.

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Its also why IDGAF if the Rs in Senate throw out the entire case. This is a trial for the court of public opinion. AKA should we reelect Trump. If it Rs thinks it looks good to toss the whole thing. Toss it. If they want to take the next month to score political points, dunk on democrats, while several senators running for eleciton have to sit there and take it.

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Agree entirely. Whatever McConnell, Cruz, and the smarter 2.0 Republicans think is best--- toss it or proceed. But do it entirely as serves the right best.

HTownAg98 said:

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Treason is a crime that is defined in the Constitution.

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The constitution has inspired several laws (probably including the crime of treason, the speedy trial act, etc). But its not a crime to do something unconstitutional.

This is rich. The House Managers have sent a letter to Pat Cipollone saying he is a fact witness and must recuse himself.

https://intelligence.house.gov/uploadedfiles/2020-01-21_house_managers_ltr_to_cipollone.pdf

Where do people get such guts? Do they sell them in a store somewhere??

Chance Chase McMasters said:

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hbtheduce said:

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An investigation, or announcement of an investigation, isn't "something of value".

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Disagree and so does Donald Trump. That's why he denies it and is attempting to cover it up.

Facing Bernie instead of Biden in the general has immense perceived value to Trump, he's practically campaigning for him.

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Yes, you keep relying on Donald Trump and Twitter pundits - I'll keep referencing the US Criminal Code.

aggiehawg said:

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This is rich. The House Managers have sent a letter to Pat Cipollone saying he is a fact witness and must recuse himself.

https://intelligence.house.gov/uploadedfiles/2020-01-21_house_managers_ltr_to_cipollone.pdf

Where do people get such guts? Do they sell them in a store somewhere??

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Cool. Now do Schiff and every senator running for president.

aggiehawg said:

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This is rich. The House Managers have sent a letter to Pat Cipollone saying he is a fact witness and must recuse himself.

https://intelligence.house.gov/uploadedfiles/2020-01-21_house_managers_ltr_to_cipollone.pdf

Where do people get such guts? Do they sell them in a store somewhere??

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Actually he should just reply, "Nuts".

aggiehawg said:

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hbtheduce said:

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And conditioning official acts is not a crime, nor corrupt, without the official taking "something of value" in return.


An investigation, or announcement of an investigation, isn't "something of value". Trump pressuring Ukraine to stay at his hotels would fit the bill.

---

Isn't it interesting that the allegation of campaign finance violations are not trumpeted in the articles of impeachment?

I mean so much crap was thrown against the wall but when it came time to put it on paper, they all fell away. And that was by design, I think. As I type this Dem Senators are throwing charges out there that have nothing to do with what is actually alleged in the articles itself, which is a whole lot of nothing.

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They know the fight is in the media, which they think they will auto-win. So why put actual, debatable crimes in the actual articles, they sent garbage. It should be treated as such. They can just put smears, innuendo, and dreams in the press and their minions will eat it up even though they were too cowardly to put it in the articles.

Apples and oranges.

"Governor McDonnell was arranging preliminary meetings between his benefactor and his subordinates on relatively insignificant issues unrelated to his core duties, and took no further action to resolve those issues. But a White House meeting with a visiting head of state is not just another meeting. Far from it. Such a meeting is a significant diplomatic event and a direct exercise of the president's powers under Article II."

It was an act only the presidential office could offer, it had immense value to Zelensky, and he tried in vain for months to secure it. It still hasn't happened.

" In McDonnell's terms, the "question or matter" pending before the White House was: "Should we extend official U.S. recognition and support to the new government of Ukraine by granting president Zelenskyy a White House meeting?" The president's "decision or action" to resolve that question would qualify as an official act under the statute."

Again. Trump denies he did this, because he knows it's wrong, even though you pretend it's not.

aggiehawg said:

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This is rich. The House Managers have sent a letter to Pat Cipollone saying he is a fact witness and must recuse himself.

https://intelligence.house.gov/uploadedfiles/2020-01-21_house_managers_ltr_to_cipollone.pdf

Where do people get such guts? Do they sell them in a store somewhere??

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Do not give any to ANY Democrat demands. They are criminals. Sessions is the only "recuse" they get.

Aggiebrewer said:

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He will ignore your post

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This post aged well for 6 minutes.

Chance Chase McMasters said:

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Aggiebrewer said:

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He will ignore your post

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This post aged well for 6 minutes.

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Answer the question.

Was the line-item veto a crime?
Is passing an unconstitutional law a crime?

hbtheduce said:

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aggiehawg said:

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hbtheduce said:

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And conditioning official acts is not a crime, nor corrupt, without the official taking "something of value" in return.


An investigation, or announcement of an investigation, isn't "something of value". Trump pressuring Ukraine to stay at his hotels would fit the bill.

---

Isn't it interesting that the allegation of campaign finance violations are not trumpeted in the articles of impeachment?

I mean so much crap was thrown against the wall but when it came time to put it on paper, they all fell away. And that was by design, I think. As I type this Dem Senators are throwing charges out there that have nothing to do with what is actually alleged in the articles itself, which is a whole lot of nothing.

---

They know the fight is in the media, which they think they will auto-win. So why put actual, debatable crimes in the actual articles, they sent garbage. It should be treated as such. They can just put smears, innuendo, and dreams in the press and their minions will eat it up even though they were too cowardly to put it in the articles.

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Fortunately half the country or more now knows the media is pro socialist globalist and is an enemy of them.

aggiehawg said:

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This is rich. The House Managers have sent a letter to Pat Cipollone saying he is a fact witness and must recuse himself.

https://intelligence.house.gov/uploadedfiles/2020-01-21_house_managers_ltr_to_cipollone.pdf

Where do people get such guts? Do they sell them in a store somewhere??

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as a practitioner, the two moves I see the most that really just explain how weak your case is are (1) trying to recuse opposing counsel and (2) trying to recuse the judge.

Cipollone should just laugh this off.

I really would prefer:

"Kiss My A**"

They should fire back a letter to Adam Schiff claiming he should recuse because he is a fact witness.

Quote:

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Actually, no, its very obvious the DNC-MSM cabal is indeed rigging the election against Bernie and setting up to choose the nominee like they always do and did in 2016.

So Trump is just stating the very apparent obvious since both the debates and the NYT endorsement (which lays the path for the MSM in general)

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Two things can be true at the same time. Trump is not acting with altruism towards "Crazy Bernie". He'd love to face him in the GE.