***** OFFICIAL TRUMP IMPEACHMENT THREAD *****

989,545 Views | 9220 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by Pizza
Patentmike
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Chance Chase McMasters said:

Still need to notify Congress and a GOOD reason to do what you're doing.

Can the president unilaterally halt all funding for any reason he wants? Shut down the government, the defense department, social security checks?
He can decline to recognize a foreign government. If the government is not recognized, there's no one to receive the aid.

Anyone with a brain in the administration would avoid saying that because generally you don't want to tell another government, we initially thought you werent legitimate, but ultimately decided you were okay.
PatentMike, J.D.
BS Biochem
MS Molecular Virology


aggiehawg
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Patentmike said:

aggiehawg said:

Quote:

I've already brought up the first section of the impoundment act that expressly states the act does supersede the constitutional prerogatives of duties of the President or of Congress. Did not read the article, but I'm kind of disappointed that issue keeps getting missed.
That's Dersh's argument that to the extent the act portends to supercede those constitutional prerogatives it is unconstitutional. In any event it is a civil penalty and not a criminal one.
You missed my point. The act cannot supersede the Constitution because the Act itself expressly says it does not.
Sorry, misunderstood your post to say the opposite.

We're on the same page, now.
hbtheduce
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Agree, but pro-impeachment robots need to contend with the fact that their "impoundment" theory has been rejected by the dem leaders. Much like the "obstruction of justice" theories that were rejected by Mueller.

But at least with impoundment they are talking about actual crimes, instead of made up propaganda terms.
Zombie Jon Snow
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Chance Chase McMasters said:

Still need to notify Congress and a GOOD reason to do what you're doing.

Can the president unilaterally halt all funding for any reason he wants? Shut down the government, the defense department, social security checks?
Yes. Been done more than a few times.

EXECUTIVE office means the day to day operation as well as security, defense, immigration, etc.

Two of your idols did it - Clinton for 21 days and Obama for 16. Also Reagan, Bush and Carter on a small scale.


And you WANT that capability like to halt funding - primarily because Congress does nothing quickly.

Let's say Congress has previously declared a funding bill that included $MILLIONS or even $BILLIONS to some third world nation and then the day before it's due to be paid some violent coup occurs and militaristic dictator has suddenly taken control of that country and would use that money to cause the deaths of millions more.

Do you want the President to do nothing? Congress cannot act in time. Should he stop it?



The terrible things you imagine might happen as a result of not paying pale in comparison to the terrible things that could happen if we do pay in some cases - and that ability needs to lie with one person. We have the ability to scrutinize that decision after the fact through our SLOW government bureaucratic processes. But in the heat of the moment you WANT someone with the power to stop something truly terrible from happening. And you also want that one person to act/react or respond to something critical like acts of war. No different.

There is a reason those powers lie in the EXECUTIVE and fall to one person.

That in itself is a fail safe against our own bureaucracy. If we have to get a consensus before doing anything we will fail like every other decision by committee does.


hbtheduce
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Chance Chase McMasters said:

Still need to notify Congress and a GOOD reason to do what you're doing.

Can the president unilaterally halt all funding for any reason he wants? Shut down the government, the defense department, social security checks?


He didn't halt funding. It was fully allotted before the deadline.

And also, notice your argument immediately went to domestic services, not foreign policy which the president has wide powers to control.

Aka if congress allotted money to go to Iran right now. He could probably block that indefinitely, whether congress likes it or not.
aggiehawg
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Quote:

There is a reason those powers lie in the EXECUTIVE and fall to one person.

That in itself is a fail safe against our own bureaucracy. If we have to get a consensus before doing anything we will fail like every other decision by committee does.
A/k/a the "unitary executive."
Chance Chase McMasters
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Quote:

Consider the following hypothetical situation: Congress allocates funds to Cuba (or Iran or Venezuela). The president says that is inconsistent with his foreign policy and refuses to release the funds.


This would indeed be a strange hypothetical. Problem is Trump signed the spending bill.
hbtheduce
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Chance Chase McMasters said:

Quote:

Consider the following hypothetical situation: Congress allocates funds to Cuba (or Iran or Venezuela). The president says that is inconsistent with his foreign policy and refuses to release the funds.


This would indeed be a strange hypothetical. Problem is Trump signed the spending bill.

And foreign policy changes quickly.

Your theory is a 45-60 day delay on payments TO A NEW FOREIGN GOVERNMENT is not only criminal, but impeachable.

Its weak.
Zombie Jon Snow
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Chance Chase McMasters said:

Quote:

Consider the following hypothetical situation: Congress allocates funds to Cuba (or Iran or Venezuela). The president says that is inconsistent with his foreign policy and refuses to release the funds.


This would indeed be a strange hypothetical. Problem is Trump signed the spending bill.

Not that strange. Take the case of a budget signed by one President but then the next President disagrees.

Budgets run from Oct-Sep.
New President elected in Nov
Takes office in Jan
Say a payment is due in May.
President can stop it.

Even without a change of President - what if a dictator takes over in the interim between the time the budget is approved and the money is to be appropriated.

Chance Chase McMasters
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Quote:


He didn't halt funding. It was fully allotted before the deadline


It actually wasn't. It took an act of Congress to save much of the funding that went undispersed in FY19 as required by law.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/2537/text
Chance Chase McMasters
How long do you want to ignore this user?
That sounds like a reasonable reason to hold aid that Congress would agree with. The Impoundment Act requires the WH to notify Congress. Instead OMB instructed DOD to "keep things quiet" per emails released under FOIA.
Agvet12
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Chance Chase McMasters said:

Quote:


He didn't halt funding. It was fully allotted before the deadline


It actually wasn't. It took an act of Congress to save much of the funding that went undispersed in FY19 as required by law.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/2537/text


1st / 15th payment schedules with a deadline of Sept 30 (alloted payment cycles) vs holding it up for corruption but authorized release date prior to the deadline. So yes it was.

Maybe the govt should shut down more lib agencies to avoid paper IOU's that are building when they see money
hbtheduce
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Chance Chase McMasters said:

Quote:


He didn't halt funding. It was fully allotted before the deadline


It actually wasn't. It took an act of Congress to save much of the funding that went undispersed in FY19 as required by law.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/2537/text


Hasn't passed in the senate or house. So wrong again.
Chance Chase McMasters
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Aw crap. Here you go.

https://www.defensenews.com/congress/2019/09/26/senate-passes-ukraine-aid-extension-stopgap-spending-bill/
Agvet12
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Chance Chase McMasters said:

Aw crap. Here you go.

https://www.defensenews.com/congress/2019/09/26/senate-passes-ukraine-aid-extension-stopgap-spending-bill/


Again, the money was released - the fed approved the money being used for Ukraine. The problem is free money is replaced by IOU's - so this a federal spending as a whole because it's overly bloated not a trump thing lol
Chance Chase McMasters
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Agvet12 said:

Chance Chase McMasters said:

Aw crap. Here you go.

https://www.defensenews.com/congress/2019/09/26/senate-passes-ukraine-aid-extension-stopgap-spending-bill/


Again, the money was released -


....after Trump got caught and Congress intervened.
Agvet12
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Chance Chase McMasters said:

Agvet12 said:

Chance Chase McMasters said:

Aw crap. Here you go.

https://www.defensenews.com/congress/2019/09/26/senate-passes-ukraine-aid-extension-stopgap-spending-bill/


Again, the money was released -


....after Trump got caught and Congress intervened.


Lol you're worse than a dog, when you chase your own tail, you actually reach the A-Hole with all the sh*t you cough spews up

Keep going in circles man - there's 8k replies where you've been proven wrong under various usernames
backintexas2013
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
As a hardcore libertarian are you for or against this funding?
c-jags
How long do you want to ignore this user?



This isn't a good look for Parnas.
End Of Message
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
CNN is propaganda.
hbtheduce
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
They extended the aid to continue through November. The aid promised through September was released without action from congress. HTH

"Worried if they could spend the money fast enough" means they got the all money.
Houston Lee
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Chance Chase McMasters
How long do you want to ignore this user?
backintexas2013 said:

As a hardcore libertarian are you for or against this funding?


We can have the debate whether it's well spent or not. Congress passed it, he signed it. Trump wasn't making some libertarian stand against wanton spending. He eagerly wanted the money to be spent, after his corrupt personal interests were served.
Chance Chase McMasters
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Trump's TDLR defense: the constitution is unconstitutional.

Bolton should be Trump's star witness if he's innocent. Trump would saw off his left nut to keep him from testifying. That tells us all we need to know.
Chance Chase McMasters
How long do you want to ignore this user?
hbtheduce said:

They extended the aid to continue through November. The aid promised through September was released without action from congress. HTH

"Worried if they could spend the money fast enough" means they got the all money.


Nope.

https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2019-11-19/documents-show-nearly-40-million-in-ukraine-aid-delayed-despite-white-house-assurances

There's a reason DOD told them this was illegal and would risk funding mandates. Because it was and it did.
Joe Exotic
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Chance Chase McMasters said:

Trump's TDLR defense: the constitution is unconstitutional.

Bolton should be Trump's star witness if he's innocent. Trump would saw off his left nut to keep him from testifying. That tells us all we need to know.


Why would he do that? There's a 100% chance the senate is going to exonerate him anyway.
SKY1
How long do you want to ignore this user?
The name "Chance Chase McMasters" makes me think of the home schooling mom that tries to introduce her kid at the 5yr old Chuck E. Cheese birthday party that they weren't invited to.
Chance Chase McMasters
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Odds go down if Bolton testifies. Republicans are running a risk here if they run a sham trial and quickly acquit. More will come out and they don't even know what they're covering up yet.

Nixon defenders were making the same dumb claims in '74. NDS, stupid libs, sham impeachment, unconstitutional, "no evidence", right up til he resigned.

They got slaughtered in the next election because they were seen abetting corruption. Republicans would be much better off just flushing this turd and move on.
Chance Chase McMasters
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Bo Darville said:

Chance Chase McMasters said:

Trump's TDLR defense: the constitution is unconstitutional.

Bolton should be Trump's star witness if he's innocent. Trump would saw off his left nut to keep him from testifying. That tells us all we need to know.


Why would he do that? There's a 100% chance the senate is going to exonerate him anyway.


Because Trump also cares(logically) about public perception, his legacy, and the upcoming election.

If the trial is viewed as a sham designed to protect a guilty person, like Nixon, his whole party will get killed along with him. Republicans can do better, much better. This guy is a pathetically dumb corrupt charlatan.

Were his daddy not a billionaire, he'd be selling used cars in Trenton. And we never would have heard of him.
Chance Chase McMasters
How long do you want to ignore this user?
will25u said:

Hmmm.




In 2014 Ukraine transformed from a Putin vassal state to an ally after the revolution. It's logical aid would increase.

Of course, Republicans controlled both chambers that approved the aid. And it would be patronizing to point that out.

It would be insulting to suggest that Republicans were masterminding a bizarre, circuitous plot to launder taxpayer money through Ukraine back to the Clinton Foundation. I wouldn't insult your intelligence with that suggestion, Jack Posobiec things you'll drink it like milk. Because he's an idiot, but he thinks you're even dumber.
RGLAG85
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Chance Chase McMasters said:

Bo Darville said:

Chance Chase McMasters said:

Trump's TDLR defense: the constitution is unconstitutional.

Bolton should be Trump's star witness if he's innocent. Trump would saw off his left nut to keep him from testifying. That tells us all we need to know.


Why would he do that? There's a 100% chance the senate is going to exonerate him anyway.


Because Trump also cares(logically) about public perception, his legacy, and the upcoming election.

If the trial is viewed as a sham designed to protect a guilty person, like Nixon, his whole party will get killed along with him. Republicans can do better, much better. This guy is a pathetically dumb corrupt charlatan.

Were his daddy not a billionaire, he'd be selling used cars in Trenton. And we never would have heard of him.
You're so ****ing delusional! The outcome had been decided for a long time no matter how much unsubstantiated crap your leftist overlords can throw at it. And the voting public has grown overwhelmingly disinterested in the antics and the election outcome has been cast.

Keep up the good fight though sweetie! Lol
RGLAG85
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Chance Chase McMasters said:

will25u said:

Hmmm.




In 2014 Ukraine transformed from a Putin vassal state to an ally after the revolution. It's logical aid would increase.

Of course, Republicans controlled both chambers that approved the aid. And it would be patronizing to point that out.

It would be insulting to suggest that Republicans were masterminding a bizarre, circuitous plot to launder taxpayer money through Ukraine back to the Clinton Foundation. I wouldn't insult your intelligence with that suggestion, Jack Posobiec things you'll drink it like milk. Because he's an idiot, but he thinks you're even dumber.
Oh, but I only wish I could be as smart as you. I can only dream what could be.
BMX Bandit
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Chance Chase McMasters said:

Odds go down if Bolton testifies. Republicans are running a risk here if they run a sham trial and quickly acquit. More will come out and they don't even know what they're covering up yet.

Nixon defenders were making the same dumb claims in '74. NDS, stupid libs, sham impeachment, unconstitutional, "no evidence", right up til he resigned.

They got slaughtered in the next election because they were seen abetting corruption. Republicans would be much better off just flushing this turd and move on.
republicans were calling for Nixon to resign. they got slaughtered because Nixon was a crook. the public and party were against Nixon before he resigned.

none of that is true with Trump.

captkirk
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Chance Chase McMasters said:

The weird thing about this thread and this board is the general consensus that this is a total witch hunt with no evidence. And only the fringiest of lunatics, the 5% of the hard left are buying it. Any posting of new evidence or news from reputable sources is immediately dismissed.

If you cocoon yourself off on this board, alt/right reddit, and Breitbart, you might miss something.


Wrong doesn't equal impeached. Your skull is thicker than a cinder block
Joe Exotic
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Chance Chase McMasters said:

Odds go down if Bolton testifies. Republicans are running a risk here if they run a sham trial and quickly acquit. More will come out and they don't even know what they're covering up yet.

Nixon defenders were making the same dumb claims in '74. NDS, stupid libs, sham impeachment, unconstitutional, "no evidence", right up til he resigned.

They got slaughtered in the next election because they were seen abetting corruption. Republicans would be much better off just flushing this turd and move on.


This isn't 1974. There's a 100% chance trump is acquitted even if he murders a puppy at the senate trial.
First Page Last Page
Page 229 of 264
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.