I have several Mormon friends and they are wonderful people. I am not trying to denegrate thier beliefs. However, when they built a new Temple in San Antonio, they gave tours to the public before it was dedicated. In the Temple are several rooms where you can get your marriage sealed for all eternity. Evidently, they believe you are married even after you die. However, when I read Matt. 22:29-30 (KJV) Jesus answered and said unto them, "Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven." Jesus is talking with the Saducees and telling them that when you die, you are no longer married. My question is this: If Joseph Smith got his message from the Angel Moroni (sp?), does that mean that Moroni knows more than Jesus? I don't see how the Mormons can actually believe this when it is in direct contradiction to what Jesus said. Am I missing something?

Mormons have latter day revelation which properly explains scriptures in the bible, which have been erroneously interpreted by many, and they also have updated revelation that supercede older revelation.

Or so they say...

Just telling you what they say and believe. It is easy to explain away any of your behaviors when you claim that god reveals to you that your behaviors are his will.

Why does anyone believe......anything?

agape79 -First you have to remember that the question was much more directed to the idea of the resurrection than marriage in the next life. The Sadducees, who did not believe in resurrection, were, as usual, trying to trap Jesus. Obviously for them there would be no marriage in the next life. But let's examine the verses in question.

Matt. 22:
23 ¶ The same day came to him the Sadducees, which say that there is no resurrection, and asked him,
24 Saying, Master, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.
25 Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first, when he had married a wife, deceased, and, having no issue, left his wife unto his brother:
26 Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh.
27 And last of all the woman died also.
28 Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

The above scriptures are absolutely correct. No marriage will be performed in the next life (For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage".

One with the proper authority must perform the sacred ordinance of eternal marriage in a temple of the Lord, and it must be performed before the resurrection. Also marriages performed "until death do us part" are not sealed and will not be bound in the next life. Those who are not sealed in a temple "are as the angels of God in Heaven."

Mormons would have known this even without those verses in Matthew because of modern day revelation. That is why LDS Church members do proxy marriages for our dead ancestors on earth. Thus the prophecy in Mal. 4:5-6 has come to pass "Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD and he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse." (i.e. temple work, including eternal marriage, for our forefathers).

In their attempt to trap the Saviour they tried to show that he was contradicting doctrines that he had previously taught. (Why bring up marriage unless he had previously taught about it?) They certainly were not asking because they were seriously wondering. They were reacting to what Christ had previously said. Thus, Christ had been teaching eternal marriage, which is obvious in other scriptures.

Matt. 19: 4-6 "And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder."

There are other verses that reveal this sacred doctrine:

Eccl. 3: 14 "I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be forever".

1 Cor. 11: "Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord."

Gen. 2: 18 "And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone".

Matt. 16: 19 "And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Eph. 5:31 "For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh."

We know there are also many other things that Christ did and taught that are not recorded (see John 21:25).

Reading the scriptures shows us evidence that Adam and Eve were also married for time and eternity (see Gen. 2:22-24)

With the restitution of all things, the sealing power too was restored to the earth. If the couple remains worthy, the marriage sealed on earth is sealed in heaven.







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Thank you for the information. I don't want to spend too much time on what our differences are since Jesus prayed in John 17 that we would all be one. He does not want us divided. He wants us to all work together. I am not a Mormon and don't plan on becoming one, but I know from experience what can happen when all we do is focus on what divides us. Satan does his best work within the church. Thanks again for the information.

agape79 -You are welcome. You make a good observation about being "one". Even though Christ prayed that the disciples might be one, even as he and his Father were one, Christ never meant that the Apostles were to come together in one big blob. The Apostles were to be totally "united" as God the Father and his Son Jesus Christ are. The same for a husband and wife for they too should be as "one" as in "united" in devotion to each other and the rearing of their family.

For your additional understanding here are the revelations the Prophet received concerning eternal marriage and why we feel it is so important:

D&C 131: 1-4 "In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees; And in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage]; And if he does not, he cannot obtain it. He may enter into the other, but that is the end of his kingdom; he cannot have an increase."

D&C:132 1-21 "Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you my servant Joseph, that inasmuch as you have inquired of my hand to know and understand wherein I, the Lord, justified my servants Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as also Moses, David and Solomon, my servants, as touching the principle and doctrine of their having many wives and concubines—

Behold, and lo, I am the Lord thy God, and will answer thee as touching this matter.

Therefore, prepare thy heart to receive and obey the instructions which I am about to give unto you; for all those who have this law revealed unto them must obey the same.

For behold, I reveal unto you a new and an everlasting covenant; and if ye abide not that covenant, then are ye damned; for no one can reject this covenant and be permitted to enter into my glory.

For all who will have a blessing at my hands shall abide the law which was appointed for that blessing, and the conditions thereof, as were ]i]instituted from before the foundation of the world.

And as pertaining to the new and everlasting covenant, it was instituted for the fulness of my glory; and he that receiveth a fulness thereof must and shall abide the law, or he shall be damned, saith the Lord God.

And verily I say unto you, that the conditions of this law are these: All covenants, contracts, bonds, obligations, oaths, vows, performances, connections, associations, or expectations, that are not made and entered into and sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, of him who is anointed, both as well for time and for all eternity, and that too most holy, by revelation and commandment through the medium of mine anointed, whom I have appointed on the earth to hold this power (and I have appointed unto my servant Joseph to hold this power in the last days, and there is never but one on the earth at a time on whom this power and the keys of this priesthood are conferred), are of no efficacy, virtue, or force in and after the resurrection from the dead; for all contracts that are not made unto this end have an end when men are dead.

Behold, mine house is a house of order, saith the Lord God, and not a house of confusion.

Will I accept of an offering, saith the Lord, that is not made in my name?

Or will I receive at your hands that which I have not appointed?

And will I appoint unto you, saith the Lord, except it be by law, even as I and my Father ordained unto you, before the world was?

I am the Lord thy God; and I give unto you this commandment—that no man shall come unto the Father but by me or by my word, which is my law, saith the Lord.

And everything that is in the world, whether it be ordained of men, by thrones, or principalities, or powers, or things of name, whatsoever they may be, that are not by me or by my word, saith the Lord, shall be thrown down, and shall not remain after men are dead, neither in nor after the resurrection, saith the Lord your God.

For whatsoever things remain are by me; and whatsoever things are not by me shall be shaken and destroyed.

Therefore, if a man marry him a wife in the world, and he marry her not by me nor by my word, and he covenant with her so long as he is in the world and she with him, their covenant and marriage are not of force when they are dead, and when they are out of the world; therefore, they are not bound by any law when they are out of the world.

Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in marriage; but are appointed angels in heaven, which angels are ministering servants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.

For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever.

And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity, if that covenant is not by me or by my word, which is my law, and is not sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, through him whom I have anointed and appointed unto this power, then it is not valid neither of force when they are out of the world, because they are not joined by me, saith the Lord, neither by my word; when they are out of the world it cannot be received there, because the angels and the gods are appointed there, by whom they cannot pass; they cannot, therefore, inherit my glory; for my house is a house of order, saith the Lord God.

And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and everlasting covenant, and it is sealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of promise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the keys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto them—Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; and if it be after the first resurrection, in the next resurrection; and shall inherit thrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths—then shall it be written in the Lamb's Book of Life, that he shall commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, and if ye abide in my covenant, and commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, it shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my servant hath put upon them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world; and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their exaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the seeds forever and ever.

Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my law ye cannot attain to this glory." (bold face and italics added)

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agape79 -did you see this additional post I made for you?

genesis/ibm, at least you are honest. You proudly state how you will become a god.

What you left out from D&C 132 is that polygamy is required for godhood, correct?

Yes, I have. I appreciate your thought provoking response. However, I am at work and do not have the time to digest what you have said. I am not sure I agree with everything at first glance but I will have to wait until tonight when I can give your thoughts due dilligence. Thanks again for explaining this issue. After I have had time to think through what you have said, I will get back with you.

Sid -that is what I worry the most about you. You rely on others to do your research and thinking for you.

The covenant referred to in D&C: 132 32-33 "Go ye, therefore, and do the works of Abraham; enter ye into my law and ye shall be saved. But if ye enter not into my law ye cannot receive the promise of my Father, which he made unto Abraham." is eternal marriage, not polygamy. Mormons know that without eternal marriage a person is damned (that is, his progression is stopped like the water behind a dam).

The phrase above that says, "do the works of Abraham" again is not referring to polygamy. This same statement is recorded in John 8:39 and means good works.

However, if the principle of Plural marriage is in force, those who are called to participate in it must be obedient as they would have to any of God's commands. It is hard and a sacrifice to enter into a plural marriage relationship, not the "fun and games" people think it is, when it is done the way the Lord requires.

agape79 -I look forward to it. Make a list of all the questions you might have and I will do my best to answer them to your satisfaction.

quote:

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Reading the scriptures shows us evidence that Adam and Eve were also married for time and eternity (see Gen. 2:22-24)

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The Bible does not say or imply that.

22 Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.

23 The man said,
"This is now bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called 'woman,'
for she was taken out of man."

24 For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.

quote:

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Matt. 19: 4-6 "And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder."

There are other verses that reveal this sacred doctrine:

Eccl. 3: 14 "I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be forever".

1 Cor. 11: "Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord."

Gen. 2: 18 "And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone".

Matt. 16: 19 "And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Eph. 5:31 "For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh."

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Not one of those verses address eternal marriage.

Soup -they do because it was never the Lord's intention that the union be temporary. When you finally get married to someone you are totaly in love with, you will understand. Heaven for those who truly love each other and their families, know that "heaven" with out them would never be a real "heaven" for them. Someday you will learn.

quote:

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-they do because it was never the Lord's intention that the union be temporary.

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If that was the Lord's intention, why did He not have that stated ANYWHERE in the 31,000 verses in the Bible? Not one single time was that ever said. Not when dealing with marriage, not in its own section, not with the creation, not with the OT, not with the NT. It never was. In fact, no one ever thought that until Joseph Smith made it up.

quote:

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Heaven for those who truly love each other and their families, know that "heaven" with out them would never be a real "heaven" for them. Someday you will learn.

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Someday you will learn that you had the wool pulled over your eyes by a huckster. Anyone who keeps you from questioning their words is not worth listening to.

Soup -You will understand someday why the scriptures say that "neither is the man without the woman or the woman without the man in the Lord". Your problem is all that you have is man-made interpretations of scriptures with no revelation. That is one of the reasons you bailed out of the C. of C. Legalisms or commandments? However various ministers declare. You look for what you are comfortable with and suits your appetites.

You have no special revelation. You believe that someone who was clearly a charlatan was a prophet. I understand what the verses say because I am able to read and understand them for myself instead of submitting to someone's who's best interest is keeping a false church running.

Soup -if you are honest with your self, the whole foundation and existence of the Church and its ascendancy it a testament to revelation. From surviving Ohio, Missouri, Illinois and the 1300 mile trek across the uncharted wilderness and rising from the depths of poverty, war by the Federal Government could only have been accomplished by "revelation". From taking the Gospel to so many different nations without purse or script and fierce opposition in many cases by various governments shows clearly the Lord's hand in His work whose Church this is. No mere man could have accomplished all of these things and, again, if you are honest with yourself, you will admit that.

You forgot to mention the value of your house and size of your television.

Historically speaking, the survival of the LDS church is hardly a blip on the radar of impressive events.

Nixter -I hope you are young for you will learn to your shock and amazement how wrong you are!

genesis, question.

In the LDS faith, how important is marriage? Just glossing over this thread, it seems to have a lot of importance. What would the church say about someone who is never married?

In the Methodist church, our doctrine is very specific that there is no distingtion before God between married and singles. Though many, sometimes without realizing it, think that men and women are made incomplete and must be made whole by marriage.

Just curious as to an LDS believe on marriage vs remain single.

Thanks.

Soup, when God married Adam and Eve had death entered the scene?

Steel

Historically speaking, those LDS achievements aren't all that impressive.

The Hindus have received treatment much more harsh at the hands of the Muslims both in the past and now than the Mormons ever did. There are nearly one billion Hindus. Of course, you would use that as evidence that they are led by the Spirit, except for the fact that they are Hindu.

What about all the great explorers who weren't Muslim, who did much greater things than walk across the Great Plains?

Lewis and Clark: Explorers or great prophets?
Neil Armstrong: Great explorer or great prophet?
Marco Polo: Great swimming game or great prophet?
Obviously Leif Erickson was a great prophet since he was the first European to find North America and all the great Jews who had settled there. When he raped and pillaged towns with the other prophet vikings, they were obviously doing work of their own accord, not God's work.

None of that shows that any of them are prophets or anything else. Lots of people and lots of groups have done far more impressive things than anything you could come up with that the LDS has done.

Steel - we know of no human deaths at that point in time.

Guitarsoup -The greatest events are the ones who effect the most people the longest. Almost all of those you mentioned accomplisments were overshadowed by those who followed them. No one in the religous arena has overshadowed the work of the Prophet Joseph Smith. No one.

genesis, did you see my question?

quote:

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No one in the religous arena has overshadowed the work of the Prophet Joseph Smith. No one.

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At least you are consistent.....

quote:

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"Come on! ye prosecutors! ye false swearers! All hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava! for I will come out on top at last. I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet...When they can get rid of me, the devil will also go." (History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 408, 409)

- Joseph Smith: founder, prophet, seer, and revelator of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

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I would say the Chechens who walked all the way home from exile in Siberia were pretty impressive.

Rab -And Jesus was correct when he said there would be those who followed after Him that would do even mightier works on earth than He. That never meant they would be greater than the Saviour, but I have no doubt he had the Prophet Joseph in mind since the boy Joseph was the instrument Christ used to restore His Church and the fullness of the Gospel.

quote:

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No one in the religous arena has overshadowed the work of the Prophet Joseph Smith. No one.

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You can't be serious. Oh never mind I forgot this was ibmagg.


Lets see, Moses, Abraham, Mary, ohn the Baptist, Jesus............How did I miss that.

Pro Sandy -excellent question. Sorry it took so long to answer but between working out and spending lots of time with my visiting granddaughter,it is hard to squeeze the time in. Marriage is paramount in the LDS faith! It is not necessary to be married to gain "salvation" but you do have to be married to inherit exaltation in the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom. If you look at the verse in D&C132:18 it says:

"they cannot, therefore, inherit my glory; for my house is a house of order, saith the Lord God."

Thus you must be married in a temple with proper authority to inherit the Celestial Glory. The Creator himself has said, "It is not good that man should be alone." (Gen.2:18)

But to get at the heart of your question, it is important to remember that righteous individuals who have not had the opportunity to receive temple marriage in this life will have the opportunity after the second coming of Christ. This ordinance can be performed by proxies before and during the millennium, but not after the final judgment.

The key here is those that have not had a fair opportunity in this life to be married. The Lord is the judge of that.

O/U -read more carefully. "After" or "those that followed" Joseph Smith. Sorry you missed that!

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As you so eloquently say to most posters on this board,

"You must just be ignorant"

Thanks genesis. Being single, this is something I have thought about. I might start a thread and get people's thoughts on marriage vs singleness.