THE CATECHISM OF ST. PIUS X


4 Q: Why is it said of Jesus Christ that He ascended, and of His Most Holy Mother that she was assumed, into heaven?

A: It is said of Jesus Christ that He ascended into heaven, and of His Most Holy Mother that she was assumed, because, Jesus Christ, being Man-God, ascended into heaven by His own power; but His Mother, being a creature, even though the greatest of all creatures, was taken up into heaven by the power of God.

Check your e-mail.

I did, there is nothing there from you... Please resend...

[This message has been edited by Notafraid (edited 3/21/2006 12:07a).]

Dial up must be sloooooow.

Yes, according to the Bible she is the most blessed among women.

The Ark of the Covenant was holy and sacred because it contained the Word of God. Much more so was the Blessed Virgin Mary, because her womb contained the Word of God made Flesh, the true Bread of Life.

I just can't tell y'all how much my life has improved since I started meditating on my daily rosary...It's like night and day...

No Mary, No Jesus. Know Mary, Know Jesus...

A little Christian Yoga?

Actually, John the Baptist was greater than Mary.

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Matthew 11:11a
Truly I say to you, among those born of women there has not arisen anyone greater than John the Baptist!

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Apollos.ws
think.learn.know

[This message has been edited by Aggie4Life02 (edited 3/21/2006 8:04a).]

Even though Mary birthed God through her womb, gave God the entirity of His human form, was by her incredible faith filled with the Graces of Christ, and entrusted by Christ to the Apostles as their own, sure, she's just like every single other woman that was born.

wasn't Jesus born of woman?

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Even though Mary birthed God through her womb, gave God the entirity of His human form, was by her incredible faith filled with the Graces of Christ, and entrusted by Christ to the Apostles as their own, sure, she's just like every single other woman that was born.

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I thought that she was immaculately conceived, without sin? How can this make her like every single other woman?

notafriad,

Perhaps you should reread the post.

I did. So you are saying, aside from the fact that she was not like any other woman, she was like any other woman?

How about Billy Gillespie?

No, she is not like other women. She was chosen by God for an extraordinary mission, and she accepted.

She is therefore the Mother of God, because she is the mother of the human Christ, and quite unlike all other women.

This does not make her divine, this does not make her semi-divine, this makes her unique and extraordinary - like Adam and Eve. She is the new Eve.

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Even though Mary birthed God through her womb, gave God the entirity of His human form, was by her incredible faith filled with the Graces of Christ, and entrusted by Christ to the Apostles as their own, sure, she's just like every single other woman that was born.

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This reminds of me a quote from Monty Python's "Life of Brian:"

REG: "All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?"

I don't know where people get the idea that Mary was sinless. Jesus is the only person who ever lived who was sinless, and that, among other things, is why we worhsip him and no one else.

BMX is right - That quote, if taken literally, would mean that JTB is greater that JC!!

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No, she is not like other women. She was chosen by God for an extraordinary mission, and she accepted.

She is therefore the Mother of God, because she is the mother of the human Christ, and quite unlike all other women.

This does not make her divine, this does not make her semi-divine, this makes her unique and extraordinary - like Adam and Eve. She is the new Eve.

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No man, she is omnipresent! She can hear all of the millions of prayers offered each second! She has been appointed by God to be the Queen of heaven and earth, and is exalted above all the choirs of angels and saints, and even stands at the right hand of her only-begotten Son, Jesus Christ our Lord, she presents our petitions in a most efficacious manner. What she asks, she obtains. Her pleas can never be unheard!!!

In the most Blessed Virgin -- in the all fair and immaculate one who has crushed the poisonous head of the most cruel serpent and brought salvation to the world: in her who is the glory of the prophets and apostles, the honor of the martyrs, the crown and joy of all the saints; in her who is the safest refuge and the most trustworthy helper of all who are in danger; in her…is the most powerful Mediatrix and Conciliatrix in the whole world; in her who is the most excellent glory, ornament, and impregnable stronghold of the holy Church; in her who has destroyed all heresies and snatched the faithful people and nations from all kinds of direst calamities; in her do we hope who has delivered us from so many threatening dangers.

She will obtain pardon for the sinner, health for the sick, strength of heart for the weak, consolation for the afflicted, help for those in danger; that she will remove spiritual blindness from all who are in error, so that they may return to the path of truth and justice, and that here may be one flock and one shepherd.

So, notafraid - You finally understand the role of the Queen Mother!! About time!!

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So, notafraid - You finally understand the role of the Queen Mother!! About time!!

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Yes.. I finally have been shown the truth about the Queen Mother... You were right... It was all true...

Rome is right... Rome is right... Rome is right...



[This message has been edited by Notafraid (edited 3/21/2006 10:31p).]

notafraid - HaHa...Actually, though, if you look up the role of the Queen Mother in the OT, ala Bathsheeba's role to King Solomon, you will find that Bathsheeba's intercession did change King Solomon's mind....Studying the New Testament without using the Old Testament biblical types as a guide is a mistake, I think...

And we all know that future Kings are not born of peasant girls, but rather, future Kings are born of the Queen Mother. That would include the King of Kings and The Woman. And that isn't a teaching of the Holy Catholic Church, that is just the way royalty works....

All things are possible with God, except allowing Mary to intercede on behalf of the faithful & transubstanation.

Mary certainly wasnt royalty. She came from a very humble rural area of Israel (if my memory of literature serves me correctly).

And if you want to hold the line of royalty, Jesus geneology shows he came from a line of serious sinners.

She gave God the entirity of His human form, said all generations will call her blessed, was full of grace, was blessed by Christ and the Apostles, was entrusted to the Apostles and the Apostles to her, among other things....

yes, I absoutely believe she can and should intercede with her Divine Son on our behalf.

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I absoutely believe she can and should intercede with her Divine Son on our behalf.

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Sounds like a Goddess to me! What power she wields on her own. Far beyond mortals.

She certainly is quite unlike anyone else.

Let us know the next time you encounter a woman who birthed God into the world.

I don't believe there is any difference whatever in asking a Saint to pray for me and asking a fellow live human to pray for me. The Body of Christ does not know those boundries.

Who better than the Mother of God?

And if you persist in believing that Catholics believe the Virgin Mother of God has divine qualities, that's your business - but it doesn't make it true.

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Who better than the Mother of God?

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Oh hows about God Himself! The Spirit!

"In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express." -Romans 8:26

Dead people can't hear your prayers. A living God can. Saying a human Mary can hear millions of prayers at once is giving her omniscience AND omnipotence, divine characteristics.

She ain't God. God is God.

If I am the most blessed man among all men, does that make me the greatest creature?

If I am going to come to that conclusion, I need much more than that.

i reeeeeaaaaaaly don't think there's a substitute for Jesus when it comes to our personal relationship with God.

Homsar,

It's hard to be more clear: Catholics pray to God Himself - frequently I hope. Saints don't answer prayer, they pray. They DO NOT have divine qualities.

"Holy Mary, Mother of God
Pray for us sinners, now
and at the hour of our death."

Saying the rosary is a prayer to Mary.

You bow your head.

You look at her image.

You speak words to her.

That is a prayer. It is hard to be clearer on that.

Yes, it is a prayer of intercession.

But if you use the word prayer in conjunction with divinity, instead of conversation, than it is not a prayer by the conventional Protestant understanding.

Catholic use of the word prayer, in the case of intercession, does not have anything to do with divinity but the Body of Christ.

Another thing, the rosary even follows the form of a prayer.

Adoration:

"Hail Mary, full of grace
The Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus"

Then request:

"Holy Mary, mother of God
Pray for us sinners now,
and at the hour of our death"


Same concept as the Lord's Prayer:

Adoration:

Our Father who art in heaven
Hallowed be Thy Name
Thy Kingom come
Thy will be done
On earth as it is in heaven."

And Request:

"Give us this day our daily bread.
Forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors
Lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil."

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Let us know the next time you encounter a woman who birthed God into the world.

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Everybody who was blessed by God in the scriptures was humbled by it, and would be shocked and appalled by any exaltations.

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Yes, it is a prayer of intercession.

But if you use the word prayer in conjunction with divinity, instead of conversation, than it is not a prayer by the conventional Protestant understanding.

Catholic use of the word prayer, in the case of intercession, does not have anything to do with divinity but the Body of Christ.

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I don't care about Catholic versus protestant concepts of prayer, but Biblical concepts of prayer.

Not once in Scripture is prayer offered to a person, it is always divine.



[This message has been edited by Homsar (edited 3/22/2006 10:29a).]