What is causing this?

On the general board, I posted that I don't go to places that support planned parenthood, and some people went nuts over that. Which led to this question. Is it like this all over the world or just in the US?

birth control and abortion are not necessarily immoral.

I personally think it is the breakdown of the family, and men and women not fulfilling their God-given roles.

I seriously think that it's the media and Hollywood. They promote pre-maritial sex is ok, and that if you don't do it, then you're a "loser." (just an example)

I think that has a lot to do with it as well.

"Everyone" wants to look, act, and be like the people on the big screen.

Nope. Sarah hit it right on the head.

Hollywood trash, social upheaval, bad examples set by teachers, etc., can all be reduced to naught with a strong, moral, Christ-like example in the home. That's not to say that every family will instantaneously turn into the Cleavers, but it's easy to see that once the family is broken down, these other evils creep in at an alarming rate.

Fransis Schaffer had an interesting opinion. He taught that as early as the 30's in this century, that the Bible as an absolute source of values was eroding. Then in the 40's and 50's we had what he called romantic moralism, an informal consensus of what was right and wrong without it being tied to any work/creed/ or idea. The 60's hippie and sexual revolution basically said why is it wrong to feel good? Most people had no answer and the moral erosion of basic values went on a slippery slope. Today, hearing a person say that it is wrong because the Bible says so, may be frequent on this board, but it's fairly rare out there in the "everything goes"(except for what Oprah Winfrew says is wrong) world of morality has no solid basis.

I will strongly disagree:

Rather than seeing morals and values "disappearing" I believe society continues to become more moral and with a much greater appreciation of values.

I see no evidence of declining morality in the world today.

[This message has been edited by An Ag in CO (edited 8/24/2005 12:41p).]

To the leftists, politics are their religion, and abortion is their chief sacrament.

quote:

---

I see no evidence of declining morality in the world today.

---

So abortion, stem cell research, pre-maritial sex, etc are considered moral?

quote:

---

Rather than seeing morals and values "disappearing" I believe society continues to become more moral and with a much greater appreciation of values

---

I have some swamp land in Louisanna that you might be interested in buying.

quote:

---

To the leftists, politics are their religion, and abortion is their chief sacrament.

---

Classic!

Religion = Politics


Each generation thinks it is somehow more moral than the one that follows it.

abortion has always existed

you can just make it less painful now and girls get pregnant earlier

Guinea, 99% of it is that you make sure that YOUR morals and values and especially behavior line up with Biblical standards. You're going to have to answer for what you do; other people will have to answer for what they do.

Don't think that you're better than those people. And for goodness sake don't lower yourself to behave like they do because you see them doing it and seemingly getting away with it.

A very dear friend at work has taken me to task because I hold to my own standards in dealing with people who are considerably less than ethical (and will, in time, pay dearly for that behavior- not necessarily this week but definitely someday). Nope. I keep on being nice to people who aren't nice to anybody, not even themselves. So sue me.

Hang in there. Your reward is coming. So, unfortunately, is theirs.

black people used to be in chains.

then black people were not allowed to drink from the same water fountains as whites.

women were not allowed to vote because they were inferior.

I don't think we are any more or less moral than ever. its just the things we are immoral about have changed.

[This message has been edited by BMX Bandit (edited 8/24/2005 5:11p).]

guinea, perhaps the problem the people on the general board had was not with your ideology, but with your inconsistency. i.e. why only boycott SOME of the business and companies which donate to pp? why not boycott them ALL?

in answer to your question, i have to agree with sarah. it all boils down to the breakdown of the family, which encompasses a lot. one thing that really bothers me is when parents want to be friends of their children, not parents. many valuable lessons go unlearned when this happens.

edit: bmx brings up an excellent point.

[This message has been edited by trixietamu03 (edited 8/24/2005 5:18p).]

quote:

---

girls get pregnant earlier

---

What time period are you comparing the current time against?

400 years ago, when morals and values were at an all time high (or was this the case 900 years ago?), it was common to start having children around 15.

When was the great moral age that makes our current time period seem so bad?

We need to go back to the good ole days when people were property, women were chattle, genocide was common, and people would be executed for petty crimes such as being a different religion.

If you think our morals are declining, what's your view of our morals over the past 1000 years or so?

The Lone Stranger:

I particularly await your designation of the day and age when morals and values were "higher" or "better" than they are today.

The 1950s of course.

guinea - good for you for boycotting planned parenthood, one of the great evils of our day. They regularly kill babies in their mother's womb, and call it "choice", rather than murder...Keep up the good work...

guinea - good for you for boycotting planned parenthood, one of the great evils of our day. They regularly kill babies in their mother's womb, and call it "choice", rather than murder...Keep up the good work...

girls are getting their periods earlier and getting pregnant at 10 now

they also regularly screen for breast cancer

but I guess we can ignore that

To my knowledge,abortion hasn't always been around-I think as a procedure it began around the time of the 1860's?except for cases where people killed unwanted newborns.And in the past,mothers(of whatever age) kept the babies or put them up for adoption.Now,whether you agree with this or not-don't change history to suit your views.

aren't you a doctor?

then why don't you know that women have always had herbs that were known to cause "miscarriages"?

No,I was unaware of that-Can you post a link?

there are tons of links on google about miscarriages caused by herbs

some claim it started in the 1300's and others claim the Chinese have done it for 1000's of years

How about in the United States?

So now I have to prove it has happened in the US before 1860?

Well since you said abortion has always been around and to my knowledge we were talking about the US(i.e.Planned parenthood)-I do think it is relevant.Look,if you are pro-choice-fine.But get your own reasons for this position,don't create them.The other day you said abortion didn't occur legally earlier because women were property-which as we know,there was a space of time where women were not property and there were no legal abortions.

I wasn't talking just about the US but about the fact women have known about herbs that will cause abortions long before this nation existed

I really don't understand why you are arguing this. If you don't believe herbal abortions took place for hundreds of years because of "midwives" "mountain women" or whatever you want to call them, nothing I say or post will be good enough

http://www.iht.com/protected/articles/2005/08/08/opinion/edbrooks.php

quote:

---

The decline in family violence is part of a whole web of positive, mutually reinforcing social trends. To put it in old-fashioned terms, America is becoming more virtuous. Americans today hurt each other less than they did 13 years ago. They are more likely to resist selfish and shortsighted impulses. They are leading more responsible, more organized lives...

---

David Brooks goes on to show that violent crime, drunk driving, teenage pregnancy, childhood poverty and teenage suicide are all down. He doesn't mention abortion, but that's been steadily declining for the past twenty years or so.

I just want people on this board to understand what you mean when you say abortion has always been around,that the reason abortion wasn't legal until Roe v Wade was because women were property,and the reason for increased abortion is because women get pregnant younger.The abortion argument has been filled with inaccurate information on both sides-and if people are going to make a decision,they should be well informed.