What do yall think?

The bible teaches that "light came into the world, but men loved darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil," and that, " since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse," and that,"From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live. God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us."

probably.

So I guess that's a "maybe"

Salvation has always been the same: through Christ. What difference does it make, if someone is a genuine searcher, if he looks toward Christ or back at Him?

We should be grateful for the Bible and the history of Christ as examples. We are very fortunate in that.

John Paul got heavily criticized for making this point: Jews and Muslims can go to heaven, non-Catholics, whoever. But they must find Christ - their heart cannot be hardened to Him. Someone who earnestly seeks God, to know Him, will find Christ, because Christ is how God relates to us. Look at Crossing the Threshold of Hope, John Paul's book. Read about the thief on the cross.

I don't think the Bible teaches that, by the way.

Apologist must manipulate scripture to account for those that have no way of "knowing Christ". Which also dovetails with the absurd issue of age of accountablity. Both are human constructs.

I think "knowing Christ" is different than knowing of him.

The God I know is a loving and forgiving God. I think he takes innocence - human innocence as oppsed to true innocence - into account.

So, would an Indian from 800 years ago or an isolated villager somewhere in Tibet today, neither of whom have heard the Gospel, be barred from heaven?

I do not know. And I do not think that anyone can reasonably claim to know.

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The God I know is a loving and forgiving God. I think he takes innocence - human innocence as oppsed to true innocence - into account.

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Who do you think is innocent?

The point is simple (from a Christian perspective) : God makes Himself known to His creation. This, especially after He took human form, is through the human Christ. There were other forms, as many as there are forms of communication: dreams, the burning bush, messengers, situations of the supernatural, John the Baptist, and so on.

The point is that someone who has an open heart and a curious mind will find Christ. Their decisions from that point forward are their own of course, but it remains the same for the ancient Islanders as it does for us: faith in Christ (or the unseen God, which is God revealed in the Second Person of the Trinity) or not?

"The point is that someone who has an open heart and a curious mind will find Christ."

Not unless they are taught that particular belief system.

Logic based on evidience and common sense will not deduct to the christian worldview.

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Logic based on evidience and common sense will not deduct to the christian worldview.

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Logic based on evidence and common sense will not deduct to the evolutionary worldview.

I was writing from a Christian perspective.

Its not much of a surprise you would disagree....what would make for a better thread would be Christian disagreement/discussion, because the original post concerned Christian theology.

who said anything about evolution?

Why can't we have a thread of Christian theology and intra-Christian discussion without athiests/agnostics making it in some way about them or their belief system?

Well, first, this is a religion and philosophy board. It's not a Christian board.

Second, I think, as do others, that's it's significant to point out where the Bible might be unclear or even contradictory on certain issues, and I believe this is one of those.

Far be it from me to say post or don't post, but its a matter of good form and personal annoyance for me. If Christians are discussing a matter of Christian theology, I'd like to see it play out instead of doing what I am doing now, which is respond to athiest/agnostic. It just seems out of place - we know where you stand, and honestly the posts are pretty predictable. Some statement of "that's nuts, how do you know" heavily dosed with sarcasm. Again, thats fine, but let the discussions play out sometimes.

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What do yall think?

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No, I do not think the bible teaches this at all.

I understand what you are saying redstone, but you really should take pity on him. He has something going on in his mind that is making him question his belief system. He is obviously searching for answers or he would not be over here.

I don't need your pity, sir.

Thanks for the laugh mac. That little red face icon always gives me a chuckle. I can almost imgine someone typing with their face contorted into that little icon. I should just start using it on all my posts.

You are welcome.

grrrrr

Jesus is the way, the only way. If the Indian was born again, then he is going to heaven. If he is not born again, then how can he access the only way?

By the way, I was not necessarily referencing you mac. I was talking about when people will just wade through the threads discussion christianity and throw out little nasty comments rather than starting their own thread to discuss their beliefs. If they really want to discuss then start a thread about what they think, don't make childish attacks.

Rom 10:18 -- But I say, have they not heard? Yes indeed: "Their voice has gone out to all the earth,
And their words to the ends of the world."

Paul through the Holy Spirit was confident that all had heard the word of God -- through which faith comes.

77,

That is just another example of when the bible was written, that they had no idea about how big the earth was (or how old it was). The guys that wrote the bible did a good job of making it as ambiguous as possible, but there limited knowledge, reflects itself occasionally.

Maybe they have a special section of heaven set up for the ignorant masses, kinda like a special education class in public school.

muster

start a thread then. But when the topic is Christian theology....just common courtesy.

Yes, Jesus is the only way to the Father. But consider this:

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14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

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God will judge. Those who will be saved can only be saved through the, because of the, blood of Jesus. I don't undertand that, but I believe it.

But does that mean that someone has to have heard the name of Jesus to be saved by through the Spirit of Jesus? I don't think so.

[This message has been edited by letters at random (edited 6/27/2005 3:27p).]

The Second Person of the Trinity is much more than the human person with the human history in the Holy Land. If you believe He is and was loving God in human form, then surely He will make ways to be known to seekers, no matter the time or place.

Redstone,

what does "What do yall think?" mean.

Maybe the poster should have stated "What do yall, who only believe in a certain kind of christianity and who do not question anything that might seem controversial and would point out the many fallacies of that particular belief system, think?"

That is probably what you are looking for.

Jesus is the only way to Heaven. That means Jesus determines who is in and who is out. Kind of like the bouncer at a posh nightclub.

How anyone can say Jesus is barred from letting non-believers into Heaven because man says so is just beyond my realm of understanding.

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How anyone can say Jesus is barred from letting non-believers into Heaven because man says so is just beyond my realm of understanding.

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Jesus said so. Is Jesus going to contradict himself?