"Maybe God" is a great Protestant podcast!

Was going to listen, but I see that The Story Church has a female Executive Pastor (his wife). Also bring in other female speakers based on their message history.

10andBOUNCE said:

---

Timothy gave literal instructions for the Church on who can employ the offices of Pastor and Elder. Deborah and Priscilla are not relevant to that teaching.

---

I am confused. Priscilla and Lydia were actually part of the early church and interacted with Paul. And he never told them to quit their leadership roles. I believe he certainly listened to them.

Ok. Were they mentioned as pastors or elders?

10andBOUNCE said:

---

Ok. Were they mentioned as pastors or elders?

---

So female deacons are okay? And we do not have elders at our church. We have deacons.

That seems to be even more split. 1 Timothy 3 also references to deacons being "husbands of one wife."

I guess if it were to be a female, they would need to be gay? But I guess the Bible already has answered that one.

dermdoc said:

---

10andBOUNCE said:

---

Timothy gave literal instructions for the Church on who can employ the offices of Pastor and Elder. Deborah and Priscilla are not relevant to that teaching.

---

I am confused. Priscilla and Lydia were actually part of the early church and interacted with Paul. And he never told them to quit their leadership roles. I believe he certainly listened to them.

---

I think it would serve you to distinguish what leadership is (civil, religious) and if priesthood is the same or different. You cite Deborah, a judge. Were the judges alll priests, or just some, or is this somewhat sleight of hand?

Love you derm but I think you're out over your skis a bit.

Isaiah's wife is referred to as a prophetess, but that likely means wife of the prophet. Should we interpret this differently, to mean she was too? Why or why not?

Since you defer to Paul, was he shortsighted when he lists leadership requirements? Did he forget these women, and the church circulate old texts? Do you know that these 'leadership' roles are what you suppose them to be and equate them to today? Is it the same as the threefold office?

A lot of this sounds like an argument from silence, rather than having affirmative biblical 'proof'.

Scripture is also clear that women are vital to the Church and were included in the inner circle of Christ. Prohibiting them from official office within the Church is in no way a slight to women. Even in the early church beyond the Apostles, there are wonderful women who played a big role, whether it be service, catechizing children, missionaries, or martyrs.

Sorry for the thread derail. Intent was simply to put an asterisk by the "progressive" protestant referenced in the video.

And I forgot Phoebe was called a deaconess.
And I don't believe in ECT hell which probably makes me a "progressive Christian" whatever that means. So you should refrain from reading my posts. Might damn you.
Seriously, I like to hear all Christian viewpoints.

dermdoc said:

---

10andBOUNCE said:

---

Ok. Were they mentioned as pastors or elders?

---

So female deacons are okay? And we do not have elders at our church. We have deacons.

---

That's the only office you have? No bishop, pastor, elder, shepherd? A deacon preaches?

dermdoc said:

---

And I forgot Phoebe was called a deaconess.
And I don't believe in ECT hell which probably makes me a "progressive Christian" whatever that means. So you should refrain from reading my posts. Might damn you.
Seriously, I like to hear all Christian viewpoints.

---

Was referring to the progressive protestant in the video, not you. Any "church" that has women pastors is what I would consider progressive.

Martin Q. Blank said:

---

dermdoc said:

---

10andBOUNCE said:

---

Ok. Were they mentioned as pastors or elders?

---

So female deacons are okay? And we do not have elders at our church. We have deacons.

---

That's the only office you have? No bishop, pastor, elder, shepherd? A deacon preaches?

---

Have a pastor, education minister (female that doesn't preach),male youth minister, male music minister and female nursery and children minister. Only other officers are deacons. Makes and females. No elders (unless you ascribe elder to the deacons) no bishops, etc.
And I have been deacon chair twice, taught Sunday School, and been on every committee the church has. My sister has been deacon chair also. My pastor of 26 years who is a dear friend, retired several years ago. I recently confided with him that I had become a heretic as I believe in Ultimate reconciliation. He told me he did to but was afraid to preach it. Never been around a more loving, supportive group of people, and all stratas of income, race, education, etc,

FIDO95 said:

---

Someone posts a story of a Catholic and Protestant having a nice conversation. It only took 2 replies for Protestants to start protesting…. About women of all things!?! The comedy seems to write itself.

---

Not this Protestant.

And I don't think it is only the female thing. I don't think some Protestants like any discourse between us and our Catholic brothers/sisters in Christ.
Exclusion rather than inclusion. Theology is highly over rated in my opinion. I just want folks to know and love the Lord.

How do you "know the Lord" without true theology, which literally means the study of God?

dermdoc said:

---

And I don't think it is only the female thing. I don't think some Protestants like any discourse between us and our Catholic brothers/sisters in Christ.
Exclusion rather than inclusion. Theology is highly over rated in my opinion. I just want folks to know and love the Lord.

---

I mainly am even on this forum so I can discourse with those of the RCC and EO tradition. Helps me learn a lot.

10andBOUNCE said:

---

How do you "know the Lord" without true theology, which literally means the study of God?

---

Ask the Jailer. Or numerous other examples in the Bible. I would even throw out the early church. The simple Gospel.

10andBOUNCE said:

---

dermdoc said:

---

And I don't think it is only the female thing. I don't think some Protestants like any discourse between us and our Catholic brothers/sisters in Christ.
Exclusion rather than inclusion. Theology is highly over rated in my opinion. I just want folks to know and love the Lord.

---

I mainly am even on this forum so I can discourse with those of the RCC and EO tradition. Helps me learn a lot.

---

Do you consider them brothers/sisters in Christ?

10andBOUNCE said:

---

How do you "know the Lord" without true theology, which literally means the study of God?

---

Because believers are emdued with the Holy Spirit. How many Christians, especially in the early church, had theology beyond the simple Gospel?
I believe if the Holy Spirit dwells in you that you know your purpose and what is right and wrong. The Bible is a wonderful tool and revelation but I remember no Scripture that said you must have the right theology to be saved.

dermdoc said:

---

10andBOUNCE said:

---

dermdoc said:

---

And I don't think it is only the female thing. I don't think some Protestants like any discourse between us and our Catholic brothers/sisters in Christ.
Exclusion rather than inclusion. Theology is highly over rated in my opinion. I just want folks to know and love the Lord.

---

I mainly am even on this forum so I can discourse with those of the RCC and EO tradition. Helps me learn a lot.

---

Do you consider them brothers/sisters in Christ?

---

If they have truly professed faith in Christ alone for the forgiveness of their sins and have genuinely placed their trust in Him. Absolutely.

10andBOUNCE said:

---

dermdoc said:

---

10andBOUNCE said:

---

dermdoc said:

---

And I don't think it is only the female thing. I don't think some Protestants like any discourse between us and our Catholic brothers/sisters in Christ.
Exclusion rather than inclusion. Theology is highly over rated in my opinion. I just want folks to know and love the Lord.

---

I mainly am even on this forum so I can discourse with those of the RCC and EO tradition. Helps me learn a lot.

---

Do you consider them brothers/sisters in Christ?

---

If they have truly professed faith in Christ alone for the forgiveness of their sins and have genuinely placed their trust in Him. Absolutely.

---

And do you believe there are any other theology requirements?
If not, we agree completely.
And I search and read the Bible daily. And have for years.

dermdoc said:

---

Martin Q. Blank said:

---

dermdoc said:

---

10andBOUNCE said:

---

Ok. Were they mentioned as pastors or elders?

---

So female deacons are okay? And we do not have elders at our church. We have deacons.

---

That's the only office you have? No bishop, pastor, elder, shepherd? A deacon preaches?

---

Have a pastor, education minister (female that doesn't preach),male youth minister, male music minister and female nursery and children minister. Only other officers are deacons. Makes and females. No elders (unless you ascribe elder to the deacons) no bishops, etc.
And I have been deacon chair twice, taught Sunday School, and been on every committee the church has. My sister has been deacon chair also. My pastor of 26 years who is a dear friend, retired several years ago. I recently confided with him that I had become a heretic as I believe in Ultimate reconciliation. He told me he did to but was afraid to preach it. Never been around a more loving, supportive group of people, and all stratas of income, race, education, etc,

---

1 Tim. 3:1 The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task.

Churches call this word "overseer" different things. I assume yours uses the word "minister"?

Martin Q. Blank said:

---

dermdoc said:

---

Martin Q. Blank said:

---

dermdoc said:

---

10andBOUNCE said:

---

Ok. Were they mentioned as pastors or elders?

---

So female deacons are okay? And we do not have elders at our church. We have deacons.

---

That's the only office you have? No bishop, pastor, elder, shepherd? A deacon preaches?

---

Have a pastor, education minister (female that doesn't preach),male youth minister, male music minister and female nursery and children minister. Only other officers are deacons. Makes and females. No elders (unless you ascribe elder to the deacons) no bishops, etc.
And I have been deacon chair twice, taught Sunday School, and been on every committee the church has. My sister has been deacon chair also. My pastor of 26 years who is a dear friend, retired several years ago. I recently confided with him that I had become a heretic as I believe in Ultimate reconciliation. He told me he did to but was afraid to preach it. Never been around a more loving, supportive group of people, and all stratas of income, race, education, etc,

---

1 Tim. 3:1 The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task.

Churches call this word "overseer" different things. I assume yours uses the word "minister"?

---

I would compare that more to our deacons. Because the deacons oversee the pastor.

dermdoc said:

---

10andBOUNCE said:

---

dermdoc said:

---

10andBOUNCE said:

---

dermdoc said:

---

And I don't think it is only the female thing. I don't think some Protestants like any discourse between us and our Catholic brothers/sisters in Christ.
Exclusion rather than inclusion. Theology is highly over rated in my opinion. I just want folks to know and love the Lord.

---

I mainly am even on this forum so I can discourse with those of the RCC and EO tradition. Helps me learn a lot.

---

Do you consider them brothers/sisters in Christ?

---

If they have truly professed faith in Christ alone for the forgiveness of their sins and have genuinely placed their trust in Him. Absolutely.

---

And do you believe there are any other theology requirements?
If not, we agree completely.
And I search and read the Bible daily. And have for years.

---

I don't think there is going to be some kind of test at the pearly gates. We all have gaps in our understanding of who God is, and God will be merciful to those in his flock when our time on earth is up.

FIDO95 said:

---

Someone posts a story of a Catholic and Protestant having a nice conversation. It only took 2 replies for Protestants to start protesting…. About women of all things!?! The comedy seems to write itself.

---

Just started listening and makes total sense now, as the protestant speaker has a methodist background. That tradition has definitely embraced the idea of women serving as pastors/ministers ,moreso than other sects.

Pretty striking by this priest (~16:00) who admits to the reformation purifying some of the human tendencies and abuses that were rampant and those men had every right to bring those up in the 16th century, and for catholics to be reminded that they were wrong at times.

I have really never heard this kind of idea affirmed by a catholic.

Regarding apostolic succession (~18:00), the priest admits they cannot prove every single person.

From the fall of Rome to the middle of the middle ages note taking didn't take place, but we know the process was followed.

dermdoc said:

---

Martin Q. Blank said:

---

dermdoc said:

---

Martin Q. Blank said:

---

dermdoc said:

---

10andBOUNCE said:

---

Ok. Were they mentioned as pastors or elders?

---

So female deacons are okay? And we do not have elders at our church. We have deacons.

---

That's the only office you have? No bishop, pastor, elder, shepherd? A deacon preaches?

---

Have a pastor, education minister (female that doesn't preach),male youth minister, male music minister and female nursery and children minister. Only other officers are deacons. Makes and females. No elders (unless you ascribe elder to the deacons) no bishops, etc.
And I have been deacon chair twice, taught Sunday School, and been on every committee the church has. My sister has been deacon chair also. My pastor of 26 years who is a dear friend, retired several years ago. I recently confided with him that I had become a heretic as I believe in Ultimate reconciliation. He told me he did to but was afraid to preach it. Never been around a more loving, supportive group of people, and all stratas of income, race, education, etc,

---

1 Tim. 3:1 The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task.

Churches call this word "overseer" different things. I assume yours uses the word "minister"?

---

I would compare that more to our deacons. Because the deacons oversee the pastor.

---

This is the whole text. You're saying the office in verse 1 is the same as verse 8? They're one and the same?

3:1 The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task. 2 Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4 He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive, 5 for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God's church? 6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil. 7 Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, into a snare of the devil. 8 Deacons likewise must be dignified, not double-tongued, not addicted to much wine, not greedy for dishonest gain. 9 They must hold the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience. 10 And let them also be tested first; then let them serve as deacons if they prove themselves blameless. 11 Their wives likewise[d] must be dignified, not slanderers, but sober-minded, faithful in all things. 12 Let deacons each be the husband of one wife, managing their children and their own households well. 13 For those who serve well as deacons gain a good standing for themselves and also great confidence in the faith that is in Christ Jesus.

Martin Q. Blank said:

---

dermdoc said:

---

Martin Q. Blank said:

---

dermdoc said:

---

Martin Q. Blank said:

---

dermdoc said:

---

10andBOUNCE said:

---

Ok. Were they mentioned as pastors or elders?

---

So female deacons are okay? And we do not have elders at our church. We have deacons.

---

That's the only office you have? No bishop, pastor, elder, shepherd? A deacon preaches?

---

Have a pastor, education minister (female that doesn't preach),male youth minister, male music minister and female nursery and children minister. Only other officers are deacons. Makes and females. No elders (unless you ascribe elder to the deacons) no bishops, etc.
And I have been deacon chair twice, taught Sunday School, and been on every committee the church has. My sister has been deacon chair also. My pastor of 26 years who is a dear friend, retired several years ago. I recently confided with him that I had become a heretic as I believe in Ultimate reconciliation. He told me he did to but was afraid to preach it. Never been around a more loving, supportive group of people, and all stratas of income, race, education, etc,

---

1 Tim. 3:1 The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task.

Churches call this word "overseer" different things. I assume yours uses the word "minister"?

---

I would compare that more to our deacons. Because the deacons oversee the pastor.

---

This is the whole text. You're saying the office in verse 1 is the same as verse 8? They're one and the same?

3:1 The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task. 2 Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4 He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive, 5 for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God's church? 6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil. 7 Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, into a snare of the devil. 8 Deacons likewise must be dignified, not double-tongued, not addicted to much wine, not greedy for dishonest gain. 9 They must hold the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience. 10 And let them also be tested first; then let them serve as deacons if they prove themselves blameless. 11 Their wives likewise[d] must be dignified, not slanderers, but sober-minded, faithful in all things. 12 Let deacons each be the husband of one wife, managing their children and their own households well. 13 For those who serve well as deacons gain a good standing for themselves and also great confidence in the faith that is in Christ Jesus.

---

Well, we don't have anyone named an "overseer" so I was just trying to make a viable comparison. Basically I think the attributes apply to all Christians in a leadership role and should apply to all Christians. Seems pretty simple to me.

Interesting to learn the first theological defense of the sinlessness of Mary was not until the 14th century.

Protestant...."that's pretty late"