Faithful Ag said:

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BusterAg said:

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Why would Jesus inherit original sin just because he was born of a mother that had sinned? Im not accountable for the sins that MY mom committed prior to my birth, why would Jesus be accountable for Mary's sin?

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Are you considering the original sin of Adam and Eve?

BusterAg said:

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Why would it be impossible for Jesus to be born of a sinful woman without inheriting original sin?

Did Mary inherit original sin from her Mom? If so, how was she without sin?

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Respectfully, I think you are looking at this from the wrong point of view. It's not about Mary. It's about Jesus and what is fitting for God. The OT arc was pure and holy inside and out because it was the dwelling place of God on earth. Likewise the NT arc, Mary, was pure and holy and without sin or stain because she was the literal dwelling place of God Incarnate. This is the primary reason we believe Mary was without sin.

A secondary reason is because we know Jesus, being God, is without sin and that Jesus obeyed and fulfilled all of the OT, including the commandment to honor your mother and father. God is not bound by space and time and therefore He can do anything - including saving Mary from sin from the very beginning of her creation. Surely Jesus honored his mother and loved her so perfectly that he provided her with all the graces needed to keep her free from the evil of sin.

To your question about inheriting original sin…Adam and Eve were created without original sin and chose to eat from the tree of knowledge instead of the tree of life. Jesus and Mary are the new Adam and the new Eve. They chose the will of God and tree of life. We believe that Mary was free from original sin from the moment of her conception and that she never committed a single personal sin because God provided her with super-abundant graces and as "the Woman" from Genesis Mary was always against the devil (enmity).

Nothing is impossible with God and God was not required to do anything. God chose the how, where, and when he would enter our sinful world and he wrote his story in the stars from the beginning of creation…and he chose who among all women would be his mother and through whom he would enter our world. Mary was uniquely set apart for the Holy Spirit to overshadow, and to give humanity - flesh and blood - to our savior in the miracle of life, and to deliver Jesus her son to the world. Mary literally had the blood of Jesus running through her veins while Jesus was in her womb. His blood was her blood.

Jesus honored his mother as the law of God commands and saved her proactively from sin by applying his sacrifice on the cross to his mother before creating her. In the same way the Eucharist, the body and blood of our savior, comes to us today from the table of the last supper and his sacrifice on the cross. It's the same sacrifice offered by Jesus once for ALL. The issue in question is how and when is that sacrifice applied to each of us? It is our belief that Jesus applies his salvation to his mother at the moment of her conception.

Merry Christmas!

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This was a good explanation and I appreciated reading it.

My question is this: do you believe once we are saved we all remain sinless? Or the Lord just gave Mary a unique salvation, that He gives no one else, to keep her sinless her entire life? And is there a purpose, or a need, for her to have remained sinless after His birth?

Howdy, it is me! said:

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My question is this: do you believe once we are saved we all remain sinless? Or the Lord just gave Mary a unique salvation, that He gives no one else, to keep her sinless her entire life?

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My question to you is this: WHEN do you think we are saved?

To address your question I would say that yes I do believe that from the moment we receive our final judgement and purification we receive the remission of our sins and we will cease to sin or have the inclination toward sin. However, the WHEN this happens is something we most likely disagree about. I do not believe in the Protestant doctrine of "once saved always saved" because it was not held by the early Christians or the Apostolic Church, and the teaching is not Biblical. As Catholics we believe that our eternal salvation (or damnation) happens at the moment of our death and not when we pray the "Sinner's Prayer". We believe we must run our race to the very end by living and conforming our lives to Christ. He offers all of us salvation through his sacrifice on the cross and his resurrection, but we must accept that gift throughout our lives. Accepting Jesus at an altar call at church camp is great, but the idea that in that moment we become eternally secure in our salvation is a novel, modern teaching and foreign to Apostolic Christianity.

Jesus applied his sacrifice on the cross to Mary at the moment of her conception (remember God is not bound by space or time). God provided Mary with all the graces she needed to protect her and keep her from sin, and in that way did something for Mary that was unique among all mankind. Mary was "full of grace".

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And is there a purpose, or a need, for her to have remained sinless after His birth?

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I think the best I can offer here is that in honoring his mother faithfully Jesus would have done what he needed to help prevent Mary from personal sin. I would think being overshadowed by the Holy Ghost, and being Full of Grace, and bearing God in your womb, and giving birth to your son who is God, and nursing him from your breast, etc., etc. that remaining without sin would seem appropriate. Jesus touches on this as well in Luke 11 when responding to the lady who said:
"Blessed is the womb that bore you, and the breasts at which you nursed!" But he said, "Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!". A more accurate translation would be "Blessed even more are those who hear the word of God and keep it". Mary heard the word of God and she kept it perfectly. Jesus was honoring Mary here - not minimizing her as some might think. I would also say this supports the idea that Mary remained without sin.

https://youtube.com/live/rlok0eC7fD4?si=AFyJQweyU6vriqdj

This is a great talk I listened to this morning about Mary and how she fulfills the Jewish OT types of Mary. Well worth the listen.

He does a great job of laying out Mary as the New Eve and touches on the fact that Eve was a full covenant partner in the OT…likewise Mary as the New Eve is a true covenant partner in the fulfillment.

Faithful Ag said:

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Howdy, it is me! said:

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My question is this: do you believe once we are saved we all remain sinless? Or the Lord just gave Mary a unique salvation, that He gives no one else, to keep her sinless her entire life?

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My question to you is this: WHEN do you think we are saved?

To address your question I would say that yes I do believe that from the moment we receive our final judgement and purification we receive the remission of our sins and we will cease to sin or have the inclination toward sin. However, the WHEN this happens is something we most likely disagree about. I do not believe in the Protestant doctrine of "once saved always saved" because it was not held by the early Christians or the Apostolic Church, and the teaching is not Biblical. As Catholics we believe that our eternal salvation (or damnation) happens at the moment of our death and not when we pray the "Sinner's Prayer". We believe we must run our race to the very end by living and conforming our lives to Christ. He offers all of us salvation through his sacrifice on the cross and his resurrection, but we must accept that gift throughout our lives. Accepting Jesus at an altar call at church camp is great, but the idea that in that moment we become eternally secure in our salvation is a novel, modern teaching and foreign to Apostolic Christianity.

Jesus applied his sacrifice on the cross to Mary at the moment of her conception (remember God is not bound by space or time). God provided Mary with all the graces she needed to protect her and keep her from sin, and in that way did something for Mary that was unique among all mankind. Mary was "full of grace".

Quote:

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And is there a purpose, or a need, for her to have remained sinless after His birth?

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I think the best I can offer here is that in honoring his mother faithfully Jesus would have done what he needed to help prevent Mary from personal sin. I would think being overshadowed by the Holy Ghost, and being Full of Grace, and bearing God in your womb, and giving birth to your son who is God, and nursing him from your breast, etc., etc. that remaining without sin would seem appropriate. Jesus touches on this as well in Luke 11 when responding to the lady who said:
"Blessed is the womb that bore you, and the breasts at which you nursed!" But he said, "Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!". A more accurate translation would be "Blessed even more are those who hear the word of God and keep it". Mary heard the word of God and she kept it perfectly. Jesus was honoring Mary here - not minimizing her as some might think. I would also say this supports the idea that Mary remained without sin.

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Taking into account your belief, this all makes sense to me. I appreciate the response!