There were over 4 pages of good discussion and I admit I didn't get past page 1. Please forgive me in advance for any duplication of information.

These 7 days divide the believing community. These 7 days are also championed as a reason not to believe in the reliability of the biblical text.

How one lands on this view can impact their confidence in the biblical account and how one views the Bible can be an indicator of how one views God.


Is it possible to remove this obstacle? For this next section I want to do less talking and point out basic observations.

"Day"

Gen 1:3 Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.

Gen. 2:4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made earth and heaven.

Observations:
In the first 2 chapters of Genesis we have 3 different uses for the word "day"
It can mean daylight hours - opposite of night
It can mean a 24 hour period - 1 rotation of the earth
It can mean an nonspecific time as in chapter 2. Modern day equation: remember back in the day when we played football - for me this was over a 6 year period and not a 12 or 14 hour period.

Grammar Clues: when you see the word day with a number next to it, how many examples in literature can you think of in which its referring to something other than a 24 hour period?

How would Moses ' who wrote Genesis' understand God's interpretation of 'Day" here?

Exodus 20:8 "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath of the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.

The Beginning

Compare these connections from the Biblical Text

• 1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
• 27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. ...God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.
• referring to Jesus... John 1: 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being... 14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us
• And He (Jesus) answered and said, "Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female,

Observations:
Jesus who the Bible claims was with God in the beginning and created everything, claims that male and female were made in the beginning which is also when the heavens and earth were created.

If the heavens existed billions of years before male and female it's not reasonable to conclude that both are in the beginning.


The appearance of Age as an obstacle: fossils, starlight, etc.

The creation of the universe from nothing is arguable the biggest miracle in the Bible. Everything that holds atoms together, chemicals, physical laws, natural laws, planets, galaxies, time, life, etc. It's possible that God could have done it over billions of year, it's possible that God could have done it in 6 days, it's possible that God could have done it in 6 micro-seconds.

The best way to know the answer to this 'mystery' if for God to give humanity the information. That's what Genesis is. If you make observations of the Genesis account God made the starts for a purpose.

16 God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; He made the stars also. 17 God placed them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth,

When a believer says, the earth is proven to be billions of years old because we can measure starlight is equivalent to someone saying, I believe that God is all powerful and can create the earth, stars, life, and the universe but He cannot make light appear on earth in an instant.

Are these believes valuing scientific theories over the Bible or the Bible over scientific theories?

Did God create the eggs or birds? humans capable of speech or infants? trees with fruit or seeds? Teams of fish or teams of molecules? Notice a mature creation?

Challenge: Should the earth/universe with an appearance of age be a valid reason for dismissing God when He has told us He made a mature looking universe?

Why has God deceptively made a mature earth that seems to contradict his word?

With all due respect you're chopping verses out of context between chapters 1 and 2.

1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4 And God saw that the light was good. And God separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day. (Genesis 1:15, ESV, https://ref.ly/Ge1.1-5;esv)

A few things of note. First. Light is called day. Darkness night. He doesn't call the time in which part of the earth is in either light or darkness day or night. So we can conclude that light and day and dark and night are more conceptually based than just the earths full rotation. So to narrow this time period specifically to a modern day elapse of earths rotation is far too simplistic of a take.

Furthermore this is taken form Gods perspective not earth's. We see a shift to an earthly perceptive later. And time is RELATIVE. So whose day is it? Is it an earth day? Or a cosmic day? Which the time impact difference on planet earth would again be significantly different based on whose perspective of day it is.

But wait there's more. The sun isn't even created yet. So what is the earth spinning around? Is it even spinning? If there's no sun the spin of the earth isn't creating light on one side and darkness on the other. So by the fact the sun isn't even created yet you fundamentally CANNOT conclude the first day is 24 hours. And if there's first day is certainly not 24 hours why would you inherently conclude any other day is?

DarkBrandon01 said:

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Why has God deceptively made a mature earth that seems to contradict his word?

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To make it a matter of faith. Heb. 11:3

There are a lot of ridiculous, "deceptive" things in the Bible that we simply believe. The sun stopping mid-course, a donkey talking, water into wine, and people rising from the dead. All against every natural principle we have. We know what is "natural" in order to identify what is "supernatural."

I think that'a a very good point in general but doesn't apply to the topic at hand. The Bible doesn't state the weth was created old. That is a modern idea based on the take of a 7 literal day. Contrasted to the scriptures very clearly stated Jesus turned water into wine as an undisputed miracle of Jesus.

I'm not sure what a "young" earth would even look like. Do you? Adam was created a man, not a zygote.

I don't believe in young earth. It's nonsense. But scripturally we see the earth was without form. So there's at least described some process. As for Adam it's likely he was created to some level of maturity but that doesn't mean the rest of creation was. Adam is unique in his creation specifically because God breathes the breath of life into him. So personally I wouldn't be comfortable extrapolating Adam's creation to the rest of creation as a proof of a created old earth. If that makes sense haha

Martin Q. Blank said:

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I'm not sure what a "young" earth would even look like. Do you? Adam was created a man, not a zygote.

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Some would say that when God formed man from dust and blew life in him- that "dust" made a phenomenological leap in its natural development.

Martin Q. Blank said:

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DarkBrandon01 said:

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Why has God deceptively made a mature earth that seems to contradict his word?

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To make it a matter of faith. Heb. 11:3

There are a lot of ridiculous, "deceptive" things in the Bible that we simply believe. The sun stopping mid-course, a donkey talking, water into wine, and people rising from the dead. All against every natural principle we have. We know what is "natural" in order to identify what is "supernatural."

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I wouldn't care much about a god who plays games to screw with the minds of mortals as a matter of testing their faith. Sounds like a psychopath.

Who doesn't make something and then test it to ensure it's ready for use it was designed for?

Yukon Cornelius said:

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Who doesn't make something and then test it to ensure it's ready for use it was designed for?

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Your metaphor holds up so long "it" is a non-sensient entity. Otherwise you're bordering on sadism.

Why? Who are you to determine that distinction?

For those who are believers in the God of All creation, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the maker of all things visible, and invisible, one God in three persons, I have a question:

What is the motivation to disbelieve what the scriptures say? In other words, why not just take it for what it says?

Is it that you struggle with reconciling it to what science teaches?

Is it that you just cannot wrap your head around everything we know being created in 6 days?

What is it? I'm genuinely curious.

For me it's because that's not what scripture says. It's a very modern belief. Did you read any of my points above?

1. God calls the light day and the dark night. It doesn't seem to be based on measuring time but on the creation of light. We in our modern era devolve it into specifically talking about time elapsing. But I don't believe that's the entirety of what God is communicating.

2. But let's say for sake of argument it's only about time. Remember Time is relative. So the question is whose day is it?A day from Gods perspective or a day from the earth's?

3. The sun isn't even created in the first days. So what is earths time being measured by? Do we know if the earth is even spinning? It's certainly not revolving around the sun since it doesn't exist.


It's not a matter of belief In scripture or not. It's a matter of what the scripture teaches. And the burden of proof is on those making the claim creation was only 6 literal 24 hour periods.

I appreciate your answer and yes I had read through your previous post.
So, the scriptures teach that God created the heavens and the Earth and light. He called the light day and the darkness night. So, to your point, regardless of time we have the Day and night from the beginning.

Next He creates the Sky. Then He gathers the waters beneath the sky into 'Seas' and exposes the dry ground 'Land'. As well as creates all the vegetation.

Then He creates the two lights in the sky (Sun and Moon presumably) and the stars for the purpose of governing over the day (Sun) and night (Moon) and to mark sacred times, and days and years.

If we look at this, we can say that God had already established day and night from the very first of creation. So far, we are talking light and dark to your point and time is not clear. But then the scripture teaches on day 4 that the Sun and Moon were created for the purpose of governing day and night (something already existing), and to mark sacred times days and years, the introduction of time I think. Did the 24 day/night period start here, or was it the same before, or has it since changed to 24hrs?

So, we know scriptures teaches in the beginning of the next chapter that God finished his creation "By the seventh day, so on the seventh day He rested from all His work".
We also know that scripture teaches the sabbath is sacred and it aligns with the days as we know them today including the Sun moon etc.

So, my real question is this: it seems given what we know about the days and years and the teachings of the Sabbath, that for one who is a believer, there must be some reason driving him to look at the first chapter of Genesis and suddenly think that these 6 days (or maybe even just the first 3) were different.
It seems to me the believer would just assume they are the same as we know them today.
But somehow, this is a point of debate among believers.

For you, is it really just the technicality of whether time is the teaching versus simply light and dark? Is it easier for you to believe that all this was created in 6 days based on a time from God's perspective that could be millions of years in time as we know it? And, if so, what makes that easier for you? Does the secular world view of earth and time affect this for you?

Also, why is it your view that the burden of proof is on those who apply the same 24 hr day that the world has known and experienced since the beginning of man to the scriptures in the first chapter of Genesis, rather than on those who want to make it something different?
I don't think we could prove it either way. While I see where disbelievers would choose this, I struggle with how believers get here.

To me it's a little comical that people (not you specifically) claim they believe in God and all His creation, but want to limit His ability to create it in the time the scriptures we have say He created it!

I'll respond later. I want to give it the time it deserves. Good response by you and I want to give your response the proper respect it deserves and not just fire off the proverbial hip.