Where do non believers derive their moral compass from?

What helps guide them in their political beliefs about Justice, the rule of law, fairness, etc?

What do they believe should be the basis for a government's laws?

There are exceptions. There are agnostic and atheists who do exist that are very moral, ethical people.

4 said:

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If there is no God, then there is no morality because right and wrong don't exist.

If God doesn't exist, then the ends justifies the means in all things. Not a coincidence that Stalin believed EXACTLY that and led a political movement that expressly promoted atheism.

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I agree with this. Yet, Japan is about as agnostic of a culture as there is and yet their culture is more moral overall than most. Not sure where they get it.

YouBet said:

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There are exceptions. There are agnostic and atheists who do exist that are very moral, ethical people.

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Totally agree. I consider myself a very devout person, but I've met agnostics/atheists who act very moral and ethical compared to some of the vile, corrupt, bible-thumpers I've known.

But even at that, there has to be some universal truth that the "community" has to agree upon, otherwise it's chaos.

Where do they derive this from? Other people? And if it's from other people, they are either basing it upon something or they're manipulating the others for their own means.

CC09LawAg said:

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Right - but where does their sense of these things come from? What is the basis of their belief of right vs wrong?

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Stoicism. There where moral philosophies that existed before Christ. Not everyone was a total heathen before Christ showed up.

Humans have strived to make order out of chaos since we first stood up.

YouBet said:

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CC09LawAg said:

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Right - but where does their sense of these things come from? What is the basis of their belief of right vs wrong?

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Stoicism. There where moral philosophies that existed before Christ. Not everyone was a total heathen before Christ showed up.

Humans have strived to make order out of chaos since we first stood up.

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But God was always there, from the beginning, and man has always known that. He made the world so that He is self evident in everything and so that man is without excuse.

Denying Him is the beginning of chaos.

4 said:

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YouBet said:

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CC09LawAg said:

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Right - but where does their sense of these things come from? What is the basis of their belief of right vs wrong?

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Stoicism. There where moral philosophies that existed before Christ. Not everyone was a total heathen before Christ showed up.

Humans have strived to make order out of chaos since we first stood up.

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But God was always there, from the beginning, and man has always known that. He made the world so that He is self evident in everything and so that man is without excuse.

Denying Him is the beginning of chaos.

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I'm not really arguing that. I'm just pointing out that people exist who have morals and practice ethics outside of not knowing God.

Morality comes from God. We are made in His image with His moral law written on our hearts. People can deny it, and they do, but He is the root.

DallasAg32 said:

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Whatever their "feelings" tell them.

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"Feelings" have derived human morality and laws since the beginning. If you think Christian ethics have been static since the start then I have a bridge to sell you. And it's not as though the people running the Auto da Fe thought they were misinterpreting God. Philosophy as a discipline has been discussing how to define and ground ethics for millennia. With and without God. There's a lot of self-righteous ignorance in this thread.

CC09LawAg said:

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Where do non believers derive their moral compass from?

What helps guide them in their political beliefs about Justice, the rule of law, fairness, etc?

What do they believe should be the basis for a government's laws?

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I am happy to engage in this discussion and explain my point of view. As far as I can tell, your questions seems to be from a place of sincere curiosity.

I can be long winded in my responses sometimes, so before I invest my time, I have a concern: Some of the start of this thread feels like one of the threads on the politics board where someone asks liberals to defend 'x', and then the whole board proceeds to strawman-lecture liberals on what they believe, explain why its wrong, and why they are all terrible people ruining the country.

Now, I recognize that you are not responsible for the posters that have decided that I must be irrational, rebellious, selfish, and Stalinesque. But, I'd like to understand your take on their posts, because it will help me determine whether engaging in this thread is worth my time.

In other words, is this a thread where you would like to discuss secular morality with an open mind? Or are you looking to own an atheist and explain why we are all rotten hedonistic animals?