Luke 1:28: "And he came to her and said, "Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you!"
Romans 6:14: "For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace."
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Happy Immaculate Conception of Mary Feast Day!!
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Last: 12 days ago by FTACo88-FDT24dad
Luke 1:28: "And he came to her and said, "Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you!"
Romans 6:14: "For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace."
Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.
Gospel from yesterday (1962 ordo/rubric): Luke 1:26-28
At that time, the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a town of Galilee called Nazareth, to a virgin betrothed to a man named Joseph, of the house of David, and the virgin's name was Mary. And when the angel come to her, he said, Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you. Blessed are you among women.
Whole month of December dedicated to the Immaculate Conception. She is our nation's patroness. It is the name by which Our Lady called herself to St. Bernadette in Lourdes.
Quote:
In illo tempore: Missus est Angelus Gabriel a Deo in civitatem Galilaeae, cui nomen Nazareth, ad Virginem desponsatam viro, cui nomen erat Ioseph, de domo David, et nomen Virginis Maria. Et ingressus Angelus ad eam, dixit: Ave, gratia plena; Dominus tecum: benedicta tu in mulieribus.
At that time, the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a town of Galilee called Nazareth, to a virgin betrothed to a man named Joseph, of the house of David, and the virgin's name was Mary. And when the angel come to her, he said, Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you. Blessed are you among women.
Whole month of December dedicated to the Immaculate Conception. She is our nation's patroness. It is the name by which Our Lady called herself to St. Bernadette in Lourdes.
The Greek is more poignant:747Ag said:
Gospel from yesterday (1962 ordo/rubric): Luke 1:26-28Quote:
In illo tempore: Missus est Angelus Gabriel a Deo in civitatem Galilaeae, cui nomen Nazareth, ad Virginem desponsatam viro, cui nomen erat Ioseph, de domo David, et nomen Virginis Maria. Et ingressus Angelus ad eam, dixit: Ave, gratia plena; Dominus tecum: benedicta tu in mulieribus.
At that time, the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a town of Galilee called Nazareth, to a virgin betrothed to a man named Joseph, of the house of David, and the virgin's name was Mary. And when the angel come to her, he said, Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you. Blessed are you among women.
Whole month of December dedicated to the Immaculate Conception. She is our nation's patroness. It is the name by which Our Lady called herself to St. Bernadette in Lourdes.
In Greek, "Hail Mary" is translated as " " (pronounced "Chaire Maria"), with the key phrase "" ("kecharitomene").
From Fr. Charles Grondin: "Full of grace" is literally "pleres charitos," and that wording is used in reference to Jesus (John 1:14) and to St. Stephen (Acts 6:8). Obviously, its used with two different meanings in those two passages, but its meaning is clearly gleamed by its context. Technically, anyone who was recently baptized or received the sacrament of confession is pleres charitos.
In Luke 1:28, the word that the angel uses is kecharitomene. So it's not literally "full of grace," but its root word is the Greek verb "to give grace" (charitoo). The word is the past perfect tense, meaning that the action of giving grace has already occurred. It was not something that was about to happen to her but something that has already been accomplished. The word was also used as a title. The angel did not say, "Hail Mary, you are kecharitomene" but rather, "Hail kecharitomene." Therefore the word is not simply an action but an identity.
It is thus difficult to translate because it is a unique use of the word. It has been translated by various scholars as "full of grace", "graced one," "one who has been made graced," "highly graced," and "highly favored." In the last instance the translator is using the concept that to be graced by God is to find favor with God. It would appear that any translation should use the word "grace," because that is the root word, meaning "full of grace" which is how the angel Gabriel greets Mary in the Bible.
Personally, I think graced one or highly graced is most felicitous to the Greek, but I am not a scholar. Just a guy.
I've searched several English versions and the only time "full of grace" is used isThaddeus73 said:
Luke 1:28: "And he came to her and said, "Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you!"
Romans 6:14: "For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace."
John 1:14 to describe Jesus (KJV, ESV, NIV, NASB, RSV)
Acts 6:8 to describe Stephen (ESV, NIV, NASB, RSV)
Col. 4:6 to describe all believer's conversion (NIV)
[Septuagint additions to Esther] 15:14 Esther's description of the King of Persia (RSV)
How many of those use the Greek word Kecharitomene in the original translation?Martin Q. Blank said:I've searched several English versions and the only time "full of grace" is used isThaddeus73 said:
Luke 1:28: "And he came to her and said, "Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you!"
Romans 6:14: "For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace."
John 1:14 to describe Jesus (KJV, ESV, NIV, NASB, RSV)
Acts 6:8 to describe Stephen (ESV, NIV, NASB, RSV)
Col. 4:6 to describe all believer's conversion (NIV)
[Septuagint additions to Esther] 15:14 Esther's description of the King of Persia (RSV)
threeve
Ah so none
I don't speak Greek so I have no idea what that word is or what your point is. I'd rather you just tell me instead.
It's what is called a hapax legomenon - only used once.
In Luke 1:28, the word that the angel uses is kecharitomene. So it's not literally "full of grace," but its root word is the Greek verb "to give grace" (charitoo). The word is the past perfect tense, meaning that the action of giving grace has already occurred.
It is used in this sense as a title for the Blessed Virgin Mary. I have no doubt that the Translations you gave have that phrase in English in other parts of the scripture but they don't have the same meaning or implication.
It is used in this sense as a title for the Blessed Virgin Mary. I have no doubt that the Translations you gave have that phrase in English in other parts of the scripture but they don't have the same meaning or implication.
jrico2727 said:
In Luke 1:28, the word that the angel uses is kecharitomene. So it's not literally "full of grace," but its root word is the Greek verb "to give grace" (charitoo). The word is the past perfect tense, meaning that the action of giving grace has already occurred.
It is used in this sense as a title for the Blessed Virgin Mary. I have no doubt that the Translations you gave have that phrase in English in other parts of the scripture but they don't have the same meaning or implication.
I am used to being ignored but y'all should read my post above.
lolol... he's right, thoughFTACo88-FDT24dad said:jrico2727 said:
In Luke 1:28, the word that the angel uses is kecharitomene. So it's not literally "full of grace," but its root word is the Greek verb "to give grace" (charitoo). The word is the past perfect tense, meaning that the action of giving grace has already occurred.
It is used in this sense as a title for the Blessed Virgin Mary. I have no doubt that the Translations you gave have that phrase in English in other parts of the scripture but they don't have the same meaning or implication.
I am used to being ignored but y'all should read my post above.
Zobel said:
It's what is called a hapax legomenon - only used once.
Show off!
All English translations use some form of "favored one" except a handful.jrico2727 said:
In Luke 1:28, the word that the angel uses is kecharitomene. So it's not literally "full of grace," but its root word is the Greek verb "to give grace" (charitoo). The word is the past perfect tense, meaning that the action of giving grace has already occurred.
It is used in this sense as a title for the Blessed Virgin Mary. I have no doubt that the Translations you gave have that phrase in English in other parts of the scripture but they don't have the same meaning or implication.
https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Luke%201%3A28
I can understand the idea of the Immaculate Conception from a theological perspective, but not a Biblical one.
Wisdom merits repeatingFTACo88-FDT24dad said:jrico2727 said:
In Luke 1:28, the word that the angel uses is kecharitomene. So it's not literally "full of grace," but its root word is the Greek verb "to give grace" (charitoo). The word is the past perfect tense, meaning that the action of giving grace has already occurred.
It is used in this sense as a title for the Blessed Virgin Mary. I have no doubt that the Translations you gave have that phrase in English in other parts of the scripture but they don't have the same meaning or implication.
I am used to being ignored but y'all should read my post above.
That's fair honestly. I believe it is implied but I realize that there is some bias on my end. But I do think the way the title was used in this verse shows a couple of things, 1 it was used only once, and it was used in the past tense. Also, if you look at other ancient writings like the Protoevangelium of James, while not being Holy Scripture they do show that this concept has been debated throughout church historyMartin Q. Blank said:All English translations use some form of "favored one" except a handful.jrico2727 said:
In Luke 1:28, the word that the angel uses is kecharitomene. So it's not literally "full of grace," but its root word is the Greek verb "to give grace" (charitoo). The word is the past perfect tense, meaning that the action of giving grace has already occurred.
It is used in this sense as a title for the Blessed Virgin Mary. I have no doubt that the Translations you gave have that phrase in English in other parts of the scripture but they don't have the same meaning or implication.
https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Luke%201%3A28
I can understand the idea of the Immaculate Conception from a theological perspective, but not a Biblical one.
Mary's Immaculate Conception provided Jesus a holy and glorious tabernacle for 9 months, demon free...Jesus got his pure and holy flesh and blood from the body of Mary...
Luke 1:42: "and she exclaimed with a loud cry, "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb!"
Luke 6:43: ""For no good tree bears bad fruit, nor again does a bad tree bear good fruit;
Luke 1:42: "and she exclaimed with a loud cry, "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb!"
Luke 6:43: ""For no good tree bears bad fruit, nor again does a bad tree bear good fruit;
Thaddeus73 said:
Mary's Immaculate Conception provided Jesus a holy and glorious tabernacle for 9 months, demon free...Jesus got his pure and holy flesh and blood from the body of Mary...
Luke 1:42: "and she exclaimed with a loud cry, "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb!"
Luke 6:43: ""For no good tree bears bad fruit, nor again does a bad tree bear good fruit;
The other thing to consider is that if Jesus is the new Adam and Mary is the new Eve, then their humanity needs to be the same humanity that Adam and Eve possessed before the fall.
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