dermdoc said:

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ramblin_ag02 said:

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That would be great!

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Agree. Unity is of God, division is of Satan.

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Unity centered on scripture, of course

My point is unity is great, but it has to be based on truth. And truth is found in scripture.

To say we strive for unity is just an empty statement. It needs to be based on something.

So what do y'all think are the basic things Christians can agree on to promote unity?

I believe it is the Creeds. Welcome to any thoughts.

Or do you believe unity is a good thing?

Martin Q. Blank said:

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I think we can all agree that the bread in the Lord's supper should be unleavened.

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Wine or grape juice?

dermdoc said:

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So what do y'all think are the basic things Christians can agree on to promote unity?

I believe it is the Creeds. Welcome to any thoughts.

Or do you believe unity is a good thing?

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Syncretism was tried during the Reformation (to bring Lutherans and Reformed together). They even wanted it to be centered around the Nicene Creed.

I think in terms of seeing others as Christians, it's a reasonable standard.

But that doesn't mean unity per se. It doesn't mean we are free to commune where ever we want. It just means we understand we are followers of Christ.

dermdoc said:

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Martin Q. Blank said:

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I think we can all agree that the bread in the Lord's supper should be unleavened.

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Wine or grape juice?

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If you deviate from wine, I don't see what keeps you from choosing any drink and any food you want.

dermdoc said:

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So what do y'all think are the basic things Christians can agree on to promote unity?

I believe it is the Creeds. Welcome to any thoughts.

Or do you believe unity is a good thing?

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This was the damage of the reformation. Beliefs are so incredibly different now that trying to find that unifying thread is very difficult. It make Catholic and EO disagreements about the philioque and the pope look ridiculously small. Personally, I think that's why Jesus left a church with teaching authority and not a book. He could have easily told the apostles to write down everything He said, but He didn't.

Fast forward to today: idk. you can't even say belief in the salvation by the death and resurrection of Jesus as a common denominator if we count Unitarians and folks like that. But if we weed out the fringes, that would be the only thing that I think we could say is similar across the board.

I'm sure every branch of Christianity has a formula for what determines Christian versus non-Christian. IMHO, that should be barebones and only consist of the absolute fundamentals of the faith.

I also think that attitude is more important than agreement in most cases. From my readings, a lot of history schisms had to do more with politics and power plays than any really heartfelt and studied beliefs. For instance, no one will convince me that the Church and its people would have been irrevocably corrupted by keeping Miaphysites in the fold.

Finally, I think the lack of Christian unity is perhaps the biggest fault in our faith. I can't imagine it's a good look for any potential convert to see Christians yelling and fighting over things like forms of baptism. I know it's a big hold up for me regarding Apostolic Churches. I can definitely see the appeal and logic of attending a church that dates back to the origin in an unbroken line, but it's a lot less impressive when there are several of these and they don't get along with each other.

Martin Q. Blank said:

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dermdoc said:

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Martin Q. Blank said:

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I think we can all agree that the bread in the Lord's supper should be unleavened.

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Wine or grape juice?

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If you deviate from wine, I don't see what keeps you from choosing any drink and any food you want.

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Isn't grape juice just "immature" wine?!?

BluHorseShu said:

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10andBOUNCE said:

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My point is unity is great, but it has to be based on truth. And truth is found in scripture.

To say we strive for unity is just an empty statement. It needs to be based on something.

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Truth exists outside scripture as well. Christ is the Word...he's not confined to the Bible.

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Neither is math. I don't see anywhere in Scripture where it says 1+1=2.

I don't know how anyone can read John 17 and fail to conclude that we are called to be one

"And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be consecrated in truth. "I do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me through THEIR word, that they may all be one;[ even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. The glory which thou hast given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, I in them and thou in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that thou hast sent me and hast loved them even as thou hast loved me." (John 17:19-23, RSV-CE)

FTACo88-FDT24dad said:

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I don't know how anyone can read John 17 and fail to conclude that we are called to be one

"And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be consecrated in truth. "I do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me through THEIR word, that they may all be one;[ even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. The glory which thou hast given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, I in them and thou in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that thou hast sent me and hast loved them even as thou hast loved me." (John 17:19-23, RSV-CE)

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Agree.

Quote:

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So what do y'all think are the basic things Christians can agree on to promote unity?

I believe it is the Creeds. Welcome to any thoughts.

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Which creeds?

Martin Q. Blank said:

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Quote:

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So what do y'all think are the basic things Christians can agree on to promote unity?

I believe it is the Creeds. Welcome to any thoughts.

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Which creeds?

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The Apostle's Creed, the Nicene Creed, the Anthanasius Creed are the three that come to mind.

My favorite is the Apostle's Creed.

dermdoc said:

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Martin Q. Blank said:

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Quote:

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So what do y'all think are the basic things Christians can agree on to promote unity?

I believe it is the Creeds. Welcome to any thoughts.

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Which creeds?

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The apostles creed, the Nicene Creed, the Anthanasius Creed are the three that come to mind.

My favorite is the Apostle's Creed.

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Me too. Does that mean you are on board with the communion of the saints?

dermdoc said:

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Martin Q. Blank said:

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I think we can all agree that the bread in the Lord's supper should be unleavened.

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Wine or grape juice?

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Being church of Christ, I have only used grape juice, and i had never partook in a communion with wine. After college, I went to a friend's episcopalian wedding with an open communion (is that common with episcopalians?), where they served wine. But I was SHOCKED it was white wine, totally expecting red wine. I definitely had a funny look on my face walking back to my seat.

dermdoc said:

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Martin Q. Blank said:

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Quote:

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So what do y'all think are the basic things Christians can agree on to promote unity?

I believe it is the Creeds. Welcome to any thoughts.

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Which creeds?

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The apostles creed, the Nicene Creed, the Anthanasius Creed are the three that come to mind.

My favorite is the Apostle's Creed.

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Isn't the Athanasian creed the one that says that if you don't believe what the creed says then you'll perish eternally?

Martin Q. Blank said:

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dermdoc said:

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Martin Q. Blank said:

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Quote:

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So what do y'all think are the basic things Christians can agree on to promote unity?

I believe it is the Creeds. Welcome to any thoughts.

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Which creeds?

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The apostles creed, the Nicene Creed, the Anthanasius Creed are the three that come to mind.

My favorite is the Apostle's Creed.

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Isn't the Athanasian creed the one that says that if you don't believe what the creed says then you'll perish eternally?

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I do not believe it does ans it says if you do not believe what the catholic (in this case meaning the whole body of Christ) you will perish. And how can you perish eternally? If you perish, you die.

dermdoc said:

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Martin Q. Blank said:

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dermdoc said:

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Martin Q. Blank said:

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Quote:

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So what do y'all think are the basic things Christians can agree on to promote unity?

I believe it is the Creeds. Welcome to any thoughts.

---

Which creeds?

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The apostles creed, the Nicene Creed, the Anthanasius Creed are the three that come to mind.

My favorite is the Apostle's Creed.

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Isn't the Athanasian creed the one that says that if you don't believe what the creed says then you'll perish eternally?

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I do not believe it does ans it says if you do not believe what the catholic (in this case meaning the whole body of Christ) you will perish. And how can you perish eternally? If you perish, you die.

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This is the text:
Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith. Which faith unless every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the catholic faith is this:

Martin Q. Blank said:

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dermdoc said:

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Martin Q. Blank said:

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dermdoc said:

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Martin Q. Blank said:

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Quote:

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So what do y'all think are the basic things Christians can agree on to promote unity?

I believe it is the Creeds. Welcome to any thoughts.

---

Which creeds?

---

The apostles creed, the Nicene Creed, the Anthanasius Creed are the three that come to mind.

My favorite is the Apostle's Creed.

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Isn't the Athanasian creed the one that says that if you don't believe what the creed says then you'll perish eternally?

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I do not believe it does ans it says if you do not believe what the catholic (in this case meaning the whole body of Christ) you will perish. And how can you perish eternally? If you perish, you die.

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This is the text:
Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith. Which faith unless every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the catholic faith is this:

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Catholic, in my opinion, in this instance means the body of Christ. As a Christian universalist I believe in ultimate reconciliation so I do not agree anyone perishes ultimately. So I would not agree with that.

I guess the creeds are not the basic things Christians can agree on to promote unity.

Martin Q. Blank said:

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I guess the creeds are not the basic things Christians can agree on to promote unity.

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I am fine with the Nicene Creed and Apostle's creed.

What do you think would help with Christian unity? And are you in favor of Christian unity?

I don't agree with the Apostle's creed that Jesus descended into hell. And I don't agree with the Nicene creed that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father.

Martin Q. Blank said:

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I don't agree with the Apostle's creed that Jesus descended into hell. And I don't agree with the Nicene creed that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father.

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Do you believe that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son?