Whatever happens today in the election

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Silent For Too Long
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12:25a, 12/4/24
Ya'll still pretzeling yourselves into cognitive dissonance contortions to convince yourselves that Joe's hands were clean in Ukraine?

Hunter's pardon is dated to January 1rst 2014.

Just another one of those crazy coincidences by "the Big Guy."
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nortex97
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In reply to Silent For Too Long • 5:47a, 12/4/24
AG
LOL, this also confirms that Trump's impeachment over his very fine conversation with Zelensky asking him to look into Biden corruption in Ukraine, for which Hunter has now been pardoned by Peepaw, was entirely on point, despite oh-say-can-you-see Vindman's (and his boyfriend Eric Ciaramella, who now is a Hoover Inst. fellow) lies about Trump not being allowed to ask such a question as a matter of policy.

Lies, all the way down, because not just the Bidens, but Democrats from top to bottom are entirely corrupt. Forever war party. So moral and just.
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Sapper Redux
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In reply to nortex97 • 7:32a
I'm sorry, what exactly is confirmed aside from your belief in your own conspiracy theories?
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Sapper Redux
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In reply to Silent For Too Long • 7:34a
Silent For Too Long said:
Ya'll still pretzeling yourselves into cognitive dissonance contortions to convince yourselves that Joe's hands were clean in Ukraine?

Hunter's pardon is dated to January 1rst 2014.

Just another one of those crazy coincidences by "the Big Guy."


I don't agree with Biden's pardon, but it's clear this is him trying to prevent his son from being dragged into a witch hunt by Trump's DOJ. At the very least, you should be able to step back and recognize that no one in the Democratic Party trusts Trump to treat them fairly.
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nortex97
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In reply to Sapper Redux • 8:19a
AG
Sapper Redux said:
I'm sorry, what exactly is confirmed aside from your belief in your own conspiracy theories?
That Biden had to pardon him from the month before Burisma (which again was run by Russian and Ukrainian oligarchs alike) hired him is a clear indicia as to their guilt in pay-to-play back in 2014 when Biden was VP. There's really no other reason to go back to January 2014 as a blanket to even reasonably offer as a theory.

The 'laptop from hell' (which was not Russian disinformation as the Biden familia knew the whole time) contains plenty linking this all together. It's not a conspiracy theory at all to point out that Russiagate (up to and including 'honest' Bob Mueller), then the Ukrainian Trump conversation about looking into corruption, which were the pretexts used for impeaching Trump, were entirely unfounded dirty politics/lies by the Democrats and NSC/FBI etc.
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Rocag
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10:13a
AG
Except that Joe Biden as Vice President neither set nor changed the Obama administration's policy regarding Ukraine and their failing anti-corruption efforts. See Ambassador Pyatt's September 2015 speech in which he explicitly calls out the Prosecutor General's Office for failing to support the investigation into Zlochevsky (the oligarch behind Burisma). Shokin was fired because the PGO, under his leadership, did nothing to actually fight corruption as shown by the lack prosecutions.

If it was pay to play, then apparently they paid for Biden to not change the existing policy which favored stronger investigations into Zlochevsky. Who owned Burisma. OK.

The congressional investigations failed to prove any wrong doing on Joe Biden's part because it wasn't there. The pardon going back to before Hunter Biden started working for Burisma makes sense if the intent is to protect him from being charged for working as an unregistered foreign agent which has been previously suggested by Republicans.
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Sapper Redux
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In reply to nortex97 • 10:58a
Quote:
is a clear indicia as to their guilt in pay-to-play back in 2014 when Biden was VP


No it isn't. It isn't evidence of anything. This is you inserting your preferred narrative.
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nortex97
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In reply to Rocag • 11:17a
AG
Rocag said:
Except that Joe Biden as Vice President neither set nor changed the Obama administration's policy regarding Ukraine and their failing anti-corruption efforts. See Ambassador Pyatt's September 2015 speech in which he explicitly calls out the Prosecutor General's Office for failing to support the investigation into Zlochevsky (the oligarch behind Burisma). Shokin was fired because the PGO, under his leadership, did nothing to actually fight corruption as shown by the lack prosecutions.

If it was pay to play, then apparently they paid for Biden to not change the existing policy which favored stronger investigations into Zlochevsky. Who owned Burisma. OK.

The congressional investigations failed to prove any wrong doing on Joe Biden's part because it wasn't there. The pardon going back to before Hunter Biden started working for Burisma makes sense if the intent is to protect him from being charged for working as an unregistered foreign agent which has been previously suggested by Republicans.
As VP he was the administration's 'point person' on Ukraine, and traveled there 6 times. Millions are dead. He's a failure even by leftist accounts in Ukraine. What qualifications do you suppose Hunter had to be hired to that position with Burisma? What about his business partners? Why did Joe Biden himself have over 20 shell companies? Why did Elena Baturina, widow of the mayor of Moscow (Putin pal) pay Hunter $3.5 million, and why is she still exempt from Russian sanctions? Do you think little crack-head Hunter worked as an unregistered foreign agent? Was Joe really a loving parent when he decided to run for office in 2018 while his baby boy was getting his other son's widow hooked on crack with a 5 figure a day habit?

LOL, just a 'conspiracy theory.'
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Rocag
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In reply to nortex97 • 11:55a
AG
You've gone off the deep end there if you're really blaming Joe Biden for Russia's invasion of Ukraine. That pure, undiluted nonsense. Russia and Vladimir Putin are responsible for their actions and I'd further point out that Trump's policy as far back as the changes requested to the party's platform at the 2016 RNC was to weaken US support for Ukraine.

Nobody is arguing against the idea that Hunter got his job at Burisma because of his name and who his dad was. He's spent his adult life making money off the idea that he has some influence on public policy because of that relation. But the scam doesn't actually need that to be true for it to work. People just have to believe it long enough to give him money. There's no indication that Joe Biden ever changed any US policy at the request of Hunter Biden. And Hunter's left a long line of people mad at him because he wasn't able to do what he suggested.
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Silent For Too Long
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In reply to Rocag • 12:15p
Oh yeah. Sure sure sure. Hunter is the world's greatest scam artist and Joe's hands are as clean as fresh snow.

Your conginitive dissonance is truly astounding my friend.
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Silent For Too Long
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In reply to Sapper Redux • 12:19p
Sapper Redux said:
Silent For Too Long said:
Ya'll still pretzeling yourselves into cognitive dissonance contortions to convince yourselves that Joe's hands were clean in Ukraine?

Hunter's pardon is dated to January 1rst 2014.

Just another one of those crazy coincidences by "the Big Guy."


I don't agree with Biden's pardon, but it's clear this is him trying to prevent his son from being dragged into a witch hunt by Trump's DOJ. At the very least, you should be able to step back and recognize that no one in the Democratic Party trusts Trump to treat them fairly.


Bull *****

What they truly are afraid of is being treated justly, because they know they are as guilty as sin.
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nortex97
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In reply to Rocag • 12:21p
AG
Quote:
Nobody is arguing against the idea that Hunter got his job at Burisma because of his name and who his dad was.
Thank you at least for this admission, about our 'devout' Catholic president's son.

Joe Biden's 50+ year history, including personally meeting with every Russian/Soviet president since 1979, truly stands/falls on its own record.


Jesse Helms could not be reached for comment. Putin just couldn't help himself, after being president for over 20 years, to invade Ukraine in 2022:

C'mon, man! These guys have always been pals.
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Rocag
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In reply to nortex97 • 12:38p
AG
The invasion of Ukraine started in 2014 and the Russian military continued to be active there from then on. You're also making it seem like up to that point Putin was just sitting peacefully in Russia minding his own business. No. That ignores the First and Second Chechnyan Wars (1994 - 2000) and the Russo-Georgian War in 2008. Ukraine was just next on the list. None of that is the fault of Biden or any other American. Putin dreams of regaining all the former Soviet territories under his rule. It's what he's spent the last few decades trying to accomplish.

If you had an actual argument you'd present it, not just posting a picture of Biden and Putin together as if it proves anything.

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nortex97
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In reply to Rocag • 12:57p
AG
The shelling of Donetsk (by Ukraine) after the Nuland revolution/coup started in 2014, you are right.


If you did in fact have a logical chronology of events you were championing, I suspect you'd post it, rather than lament what I am sharing. But don't take my word for it, take radicals like Joe Rogan's most recent chat about the military re-conquest of Ukraine we were sponsoring in 2014.


It's all morally and ethically repugnant, and all but the most strident die hard partisan Democrats realize what a fiasco it has been and is. America has clearly repudiated the Biden "leadership" in Ukraine/Russia, including the philosophical and business justifications. Hunter would have no reason to have been pardoned, on a blanket basis, back to January 2014 but for the family's role in this quagmire of death.

When an Iowan asked Biden about Hunter's work in Ukraine back in December of 2019, the then-former VP called the man "a damned liar" and challenged him to a push-up contest. Joe Biden followed-up with a pledge to keep his own house in order if elected. LOL, yet again. Oh btw, they also made nearly 6 million bucks from Chinese deals, between 2013 and 2018. So maybe some of that pre-dates the current pardon.
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Rocag
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In reply to nortex97 • 1:23p
AG
A logical chronology of events? What the hell are you even talking about? The two Chechen wars and the war with Georgia are real, historical events that you can go look up and educate yourself about. Russia, under Putin's rule, has been expansionist since the 1990's. It absolutely did not start with Ukraine.

Benz is right in that Ukraine has lots of natural resources that make it valuable which is part of the reason Russia so badly wants control of it. And yes, it has been the policy of the US that Ukraine should remain a sovereign state independent of Russia for a long time. You might remember in the 1990's the US helped negotiate an agreement in which Ukraine gave up their nuclear weapons for promises that they'd keep that independence. It's odd that you and Benz want to make that position controversial. There are larger geopolitical reasons to want to prevent Russia's control of Ukraine's natural resources and if you can't even see that point I don't think there's any reason to continue this conversation.

And again, you can't simultaneously call for Hunter Biden to be charged as an unregistered foreign agent and then say there was no reason for the pardon to go back to 2014. You've just answered your own question.
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nortex97
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In reply to Rocag • 1:39p
AG
"And again, you can't simultaneously call for Hunter Biden to be charged as an unregistered foreign agent and then say there was no reason for the pardon to go back to 2014. You've just answered your own question."

He was an unregistered foreign agent, selling pay to play for foreign policy actions by Ukraine point man Joe Biden. Not sure why he deserved to be pardoned for that. His work led to a bogus impeachment even. Obviously tax fraud as well, and almost certainly money laundering via all the shell companies. It's inexcusable.
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Rocag
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In reply to nortex97 • 1:47p
AG
And yet after years of Congressional investigations the Republicans were completely unable to prove any of those accusations against Joe Biden to be true. Shocking.

Now if we're going to start talking about what pardons are "deserved" or not, that's an interesting topic. I wouldn't be opposed to strong limitations on the pardoning power of the presidency, but I doubt that would ever get passed by either of the parties.
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nortex97
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5:16p
AG
Weird, right?



Edit to add. Nothing is proven, of course.
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