Whatever happens today in the election

12,769 Views | 257 Replies | Last: 15 min ago by Rocag
Rocag
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The question is whether or not Trump will actually do the things he said he's going to do during the campaign. The truth is that unemployment is low and inflation is already back lower than wage growth, so if he were to make only minimal changes to generally maintain the status quo the public is eventually going to decide things have gotten better and he'll get credit for that. But I don't think that's what he's going to do.

I think Trump will go all in on tariffs like he's been saying he will and that will have an awful effect on the economy including increasing inflation. People complain about their grocery bills now? Just wait until tariffs hit the nearly $200 billion worth of agricultural imports that get shipped into this country every year. And the countries we are hitting with these new tariffs aren't just going to sit back and do nothing. They'll retaliate with tariffs of their own.

Speaking of grocery prices, let's talk about mass deportation. If it actually happens, it's going to hit a couple of industries pretty hard. Agriculture and construction are two of the top ones. Everything in those areas is going to get more expensive. Including new homes and groceries. You may think it's worth it, but this election has shown how upset people get when the things they buy get more expensive.

I expect him to cut off aid to Ukraine but for that war to continue to drag on, likely for several more years. Will he try and pull the US out of NATO? Maybe. A full tilt turn to isolationism would have consequences for the world in general, none of them good as far as I see it. There's this conservative idea that foreign nations will do what Trump says because he's a "strong leader". I think the message that is going to get sent is that you can't depend on Trump's America for support. And you know one nation we don't have any security agreements in place with? Taiwan. Admittedly, even I'm in the group that doesn't think China is actually going to start a war here. But I have seen some compelling arguments that because of internal issues there is pressure on China to act sooner rather than later, so perhaps.

In short, I expect us to look back on Trump's second term as roughly equivalent to America's Brexit.
AGC
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Rocag said:

The question is whether or not Trump will actually do the things he said he's going to do during the campaign. The truth is that unemployment is low and inflation is already back lower than wage growth, so if he were to make only minimal changes to generally maintain the status quo the public is eventually going to decide things have gotten better and he'll get credit for that. But I don't think that's what he's going to do.

I think Trump will go all in on tariffs like he's been saying he will and that will have an awful effect on the economy including increasing inflation. People complain about their grocery bills now? Just wait until tariffs hit the nearly $200 billion worth of agricultural imports that get shipped into this country every year. And the countries we are hitting with these new tariffs aren't just going to sit back and do nothing. They'll retaliate with tariffs of their own.

Speaking of grocery prices, let's talk about mass deportation. If it actually happens, it's going to hit a couple of industries pretty hard. Agriculture and construction are two of the top ones. Everything in those areas is going to get more expensive. Including new homes and groceries. You may think it's worth it, but this election has shown how upset people get when the things they buy get more expensive.

I expect him to cut off aid to Ukraine but for that war to continue to drag on, likely for several more years. Will he try and pull the US out of NATO? Maybe. A full tilt turn to isolationism would have consequences for the world in general, none of them good as far as I see it. There's this conservative idea that foreign nations will do what Trump says because he's a "strong leader". I think the message that is going to get sent is that you can't depend on Trump's America for support. And you know one nation we don't have any security agreements in place with? Taiwan. Admittedly, even I'm in the group that doesn't think China is actually going to start a war here. But I have seen some compelling arguments that because of internal issues there is pressure on China to act sooner rather than later, so perhaps.

In short, I expect us to look back on Trump's second term as roughly equivalent to America's Brexit.


Some of these are interesting thoughts, but there are offsets. Inflation is a shell game: things aren't affordable and it's still too high for most. Employment has grown in the government sector and not much elsewhere as I recall.

Why do you assume tariffs would be on food? What about having an energy policy that lowers its cost (more drilling, encourage nat gas usage, end EV and mileage mandates, new base load supply rather than 'renewable', etc.)? That would help prices if we're worried about it. A 180 from this admin seems to be good for everyone.

Do you think all of the illegals that came here the last four years flooded the ag market with workers? Employment growth hasn't been big enough in the sectors you've mentioned for it to have an impact; they weren't simply plugged into the economy as they came (though they've most certainly crushed the housing market for everyone). That impact should be minimal. Edit: forgot, if they're not working in that industry, they're adding additional competition for those resources too, so higher prices.

Trump stabilized the Middle East last time. Russia has been aggressive under Biden and Obama, as has Iran, China, etc. Dem foreign policy is when the conflict has happened over the last 16 years. Where does this foreign policy idea come from, that he'll isolate us and the world will be worse off?
Rocag
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In 2023 the United States produced more oil than any country in the world ever has. The idea that under President Biden oil production has been suppressed is laughable. The obvious truth is that there is a price point for oil below which it is simply not profitable for the oil companies to open new wells. I've seen that cost estimated at about $62 per barrel. Right now, we're at about $67 per barrel. So how are we going to see these massive cost decreases?

I think you're wrong on the immigration and food cost issue. Look at the Florida example, for instance. Forbes: Florida Loses $ 12 Billion Plus In Year 1 Of Its Anti-Immigration Law I suppose the future will show who is right.

Russia was still aggressive under Trump. The Ukraine war that started in 2014 never really stopped. On Iran, Trump pulled out of the JCPOA and had Qasem Soleimani killed. You can't talk about the problems with Iran and not mention that.
AGC
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Rocag said:

In 2023 the United States produced more oil than any country in the world ever has. The idea that under President Biden oil production has been suppressed is laughable. The obvious truth is that there is a price point for oil below which it is simply not profitable for the oil companies to open new wells. I've seen that cost estimated at about $62 per barrel. Right now, we're at about $67 per barrel. So how are we going to see these massive cost decreases?

I think you're wrong on the immigration and food cost issue. Look at the Florida example, for instance. Forbes: Florida Loses $ 12 Billion Plus In Year 1 Of Its Anti-Immigration Law I suppose the future will show who is right.

Russia was still aggressive under Trump. The Ukraine war that started in 2014 never really stopped. On Iran, Trump pulled out of the JCPOA and had Qasem Soleimani killed. You can't talk about the problems with Iran and not mention that.



That's a poor strawman. Restricting drilling on public lands, attempting to revoke lease sales, and more. Energy policy has not been friendly to O&G. You may define those things as something other than 'suppression' but the effect is the same, which makes it semantics.

You can think I'm wrong all you want. The labor supply in the agricultural sector has not absorbed millions of illegal immigrants in four years. There are higher priority illegals like criminals that will come way before it. It's fear mongering at best until something comes to fruition. Edit: your article doesn't even show Florida lost that money. It's a think tank projection. Guess we'll see what happens because let's face it, you can't move the ag industry. They'll be fine.

Russia was still aggressive? They've invaded twice under dems and muddled the Middle East under obama's syrian disaster. I guess your point is that he couldn't fix Obama's blunders? At least he wasn't dumb enough to ship money to Iran to cause havoc that he'd have to fix. There's no foreign policy win for you here.
Rocag
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Call it what you want, but if your energy plan depends on the oil companies selling oil for less than it costs to produce I don't think your plan is going to work.

Yes, it is a projection because this is the first year with the law in place and the year isn't over yet. We'll have to wait for those final numbers to come in. Just deporting criminals isn't mass deportation. So are you assuming Trump isn't going to do what he said he was?

On Russia, Obama made the same mistake that Trump is in the process of making. He underestimated Russia's expansionist desires and willingness to use the Russian military to achieve those goals. Putin isn't going to see the US abandoning Ukraine as anything but a show of weakness.

It's kind of pointless to argue about whether or not things will actually get worse. We're just going to have to wait and see. But Trump has all three branches of government, whatever comes he owns.
Rongagin71
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I think you are right about Russia being aggressive except that they have been so weakened that China is being tempted to move in areas that used to be Chinese. Even Putin must adjust to reality...I hope.
AGC
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Rocag said:

Call it what you want, but if your energy plan depends on the oil companies selling oil for less than it costs to produce I don't think your plan is going to work.

Yes, it is a projection because this is the first year with the law in place and the year isn't over yet. We'll have to wait for those final numbers to come in. Just deporting criminals isn't mass deportation. So are you assuming Trump isn't going to do what he said he was?

On Russia, Obama made the same mistake that Trump is in the process of making. He underestimated Russia's expansionist desires and willingness to use the Russian military to achieve those goals. Putin isn't going to see the US abandoning Ukraine as anything but a show of weakness.

It's kind of pointless to argue about whether or not things will actually get worse. We're just going to have to wait and see. But Trump has all three branches of government, whatever comes he owns.


I'm sure Biden increasing royalty rates didn't make the cost to produce more expensive…

https://www.npr.org/2022/04/16/1093195479/biden-federal-oil-leases-royalties

Obama make a foreign policy mistake? The guy who drew a red line then backed down from it? Who had his state department tweet #bringbackourgirls? Yeah, underestimation doesn't begin to describe the navet or ignorance, perhaps hubris? of that man. Putins been a known irredentist for decades.

But that doesn't explain why Biden made the same mistake with russia and Iran…unless it's not a mistake…
aggiedad55
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I don't hate the other side. I have many friends that voted for Trump and are still friends.
I did not vote for Trump and will never vote for anyone I consider morally bankrupt.
Aggrad08
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Silent For Too Long said:

Aggrad my point is you seem obviously upset about Trump claiming fraud in regards to the 2020 election, but the deliberate attempt to bury the laptop story was fraud in regards to the 2020 election.


That's really not the same sort of thing and you know it. Bad journalism and literally fixing elections are not equal and shouldn't be used in the same breath


Quote:

I'm not going to call out Trump for doing something I agree with. Me, and tens of millions of Americans, think the 2020 election s ells like *****
You as an adult human being honestly think trumps continuous claims of election fraud often before elections are actually finished are due to evidence and not his fragile ego? Truly? What about the elections he won did those smell like ***** What about when he won and 2016 and lost the popular vote?

Quote:


Now, asking Pence not to certify was probably a bridge too far, but basically everything else he did was well within his rights, and his DUTY to the American people.
Come on man really? Only "probably a bridge to far". I would put the odds of you saying any of this were the exact circumstances reversed but a democrat tried to install themselves as president against the election results with exactly zero evidence put forward outside of "it smells fishy" as close to zero. Further never in a million years would you say it was their duty to deny the results.

At best, it would be a "DUTY" to call for an investigation when serious evidence of fraud is suspected. And it would be a "DUTY" to step down and renounce those claims if no evidence was found. Further, under no scenario, even if election determinable fraud did exist (it didn't), would he be following his "DUTY" by attempting to declare himself victor (which is what he asked pence), his duty would be to reject only those specific electors and demand a recount to the extent of possible election determinable fraud existing.

Quote:


When will we see another Democrat get 81 million votes? I'm willing to bet it doesn't happen for another 20 years. Pretend all you want that it was all legitimate. Unfortunately Mail In Voting fraud is impossible to prove. So unless the mules start blowing the whistle on themselves, we are never gonna know the truth.

It's kind of funny and sad that defending trump makes otherwise smart people say such absurd things. This is literally a conspiracy theory. There is no evidence. None. And people damn sure have tried. Mail in voting fraud is not impossible to prove outside of some pretty narrow circumstances that would be very hard to replicate in mass.

You are basically arguing for a massive conspiracy whereby democrats managed to, by no specific stated method, add in huge numbers of fraudulent votes, leave not one trace of evidence, have not one democrat fraud perpetrator break ranks or accidentally tell someone who rats them out, and for reasons passing understanding have the same democrats simply elect not to use this surefire, invisible undetectable election winning method in 2024? I get all that?

And just for consistency, the only thing required for democrats to be justified in continual election denial up to including only "probably" taking it to far by attempting to ask their VP to overturn an election is for the number of votes to vary from the previous election by a specific percentage, yes?

It couldn't possibly be true that election vote counts for democrats and republicans have taken wide percentage turns historically, nor that there was a perfectly reasonable explanation for anomalous electorate action that rhymes with BOVID....

And republicans didn't really believe there was fraud. They drummed up this stuff for the base

Trump investigators didn't believe the fraud claims, they dismissed the claims or tried to keep it secret
:(1)[url=https://www.forbes.com/sites/joewalsh/2021/01/12/report-georgia-prosecutor-installed-by-trump-closes-voter-fraud-investigations/?sh=244cdd18496b][url=https://www.fox13news.com/news/barr-no-evidence-of-fraud-thatd-change-election-outcome](2)(3)[/url][/url]

Rudy Guiliani didn't believe there was fraud and both he and his lawyers denied claiming fraud (4)

Sidney Powell didn't stand by her fraud claims and said it was just her opinion (5)

Jenna Ellis didn't believe there's fraud, she was censured after admitting that her statements about a stolen election were wrong (6)

Ken Block didn't believe there's fraud, the firm hired by Trump said every one of them was false and that Trump and Rudy lied (7)

Trumps Elections Infrastructure Government Coordinating Council & the Election Infrastructure Sector Coordinating Executive Committees stated "The November 3rd election was the most secure in American history" (8)

Newsmax didn't believe there was fraud, they settled in court admitting they had no evidence (9)

Fox didn't believe there was fraud (10)

Project veritas admitted there was no evidence of fraud (11)

True the Vote (the 2000 Mules folks) had no evidence of fraud [url=https://www.wgrz.com/article/news/nation-world/true-the-vote-election-lawsuits-dropped/507-6f9a6831-b14d-455f-959c-1bdec956e73f](12)(13)[/url]

And I really doubt trump believed it either attempting to not make public his own investigations [url=https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trump-signs-order-disbanding-voter-fraud-commission](14)[url=https://www.pressherald.com/2018/01/06/trump-administration-resists-turning-over-documents-to-dunlap/](15)(16)[/url][/url]

Trump even during the last campaign would drop the farse and say he "lost by a whisker"(17)

These were never serious allegations from serious people.

I don't want to mess with the links more let me know if there are some you can't just paste
AGC
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Trump tried to install himself against the election results? Instead of just leaving peacefully? That's a new one for me. That's how you know the propaganda worked, it just weaves its way in and sticks instead of being filtered out.
Aggrad08
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AGC said:

Trump tried to install himself against the election results? Instead of just leaving peacefully? That's a new one for me. That's how you know the propaganda worked, it just weaves its way in and sticks instead of being filtered out.
Ask mike pence.
AGC
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Aggrad08 said:

AGC said:

Trump tried to install himself against the election results? Instead of just leaving peacefully? That's a new one for me. That's how you know the propaganda worked, it just weaves its way in and sticks instead of being filtered out.
Ask mike pence.


I'm asking you. How'd he do it? Did he hole himself up in the whitehouse with secret service covering entrances? Ask generals to stage a coup? Did he just refuse to leave? How? Give us something to substantiate this.
Rocag
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He had his campaign submit fraudulent slates of electors to Congress stating that he had won states which he had actually lost. Trump then told his Vice President to reject the lawful electors so that the fraudulent ones could be approved and he could declare victory.

You know you would not just shrug your shoulders and say this is normal if the roles were reversed. If Kamala Harris had convinced the Democratic electors of the swing states she lost to sign documents certifying she had won and then submitted those documents to Congress so that she could, in her role as Vice President, declare herself the victor of the 2024 election you would be rightly outraged. Apparently though that behavior is perfectly normal and acceptable. I wonder why she didn't do that if it's so easy?
Silent For Too Long
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Right. And the dems made up Russia Collusion and hamstrung his first term knowing it was a lie. Impeached Trump for Bidens crimes. Lied to the American public about Hunter's laptop. Lied to the American public about covids origins. Prosecuted political dissenters. Weaponized the three letter agencies. Changed laws to jail an American president and the then leading canidate of the rival party.

And you said nothing against any of this. You can't even bring yourself to admit how messed up the laptop lie was.

I'll give aggrad credit. I do think I've seen him criticize the dems for at least some of these actions. But you, Rocag, any many of your fellow liberals, love screaming about the motes you see in the Republican eye while ignoring your own occular beams.

Keep beating your chest all you want about Trump pursuing every legal measure he could to contest the 2020 election while excusing the blatant abuses of power that your eternally corrupt party has submerged itself in.
AGC
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Rocag said:

He had his campaign submit fraudulent slates of electors to Congress stating that he had won states which he had actually lost. Trump then told his Vice President to reject the lawful electors so that the fraudulent ones could be approved and he could declare victory.

You know you would not just shrug your shoulders and say this is normal if the roles were reversed. If Kamala Harris had convinced the Democratic electors of the swing states she lost to sign documents certifying she had won and then submitted those documents to Congress so that she could, in her role as Vice President, declare herself the victor of the 2024 election you would be rightly outraged. Apparently though that behavior is perfectly normal and acceptable. I wonder why she didn't do that if it's so easy?


History is written by the victors, eh? Not much of an argument. Apparently we're not allowed to doubt election results.
Aggrad08
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AGC said:

Aggrad08 said:

AGC said:

Trump tried to install himself against the election results? Instead of just leaving peacefully? That's a new one for me. That's how you know the propaganda worked, it just weaves its way in and sticks instead of being filtered out.
Ask mike pence.


I'm asking you. How'd he do it? Did he hole himself up in the whitehouse with secret service covering entrances? Ask generals to stage a coup? Did he just refuse to leave? How? Give us something to substantiate this.
Really? Honestly its amazing conservative media is in such a state you wouldn't know about this:


Pence disputes Trump legal team's claims, and says Trump asked him "what he thought" they should do after 2020 election - CBS News

Vice president doesn't have power to 'change the outcome' of elections | AP News


What Mike Pence has said that could be used in a Donald Trump trial - ABC News
Rocag
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It's because most of what you just said is pure BS.

On Russia, his campaign chairman (Manafort) was literally coordinating with Russian spies and sending confidential information back and forth to them. Manafort, Kushner, and Trump Jr. were also meeting in Trump Towers with who they were told was a Russian government attorney to receive allegedly scandalous information about Hilary Clinton.

Trump was not impeached for Biden's crimes but for trying to make American support for Ukraine contingent on them providing something incriminating on Biden.

I stand by the fact that Republicans (and the media) mischaracterized the letter written about the laptop which pretty explicitly said they had no idea whether the laptop was legitimate or not. I do not dispute that the laptop turned out to be genuine.

COVID's origins are still not definitively known. Also, Trump was still President in 2020 when most of that was going on.

And the issue isn't Trump "pursuing every legal measure", as you certainly know. When your claims are based on fraud that isn't a legal measure.
AGC
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Aggrad08 said:

AGC said:

Aggrad08 said:

AGC said:

Trump tried to install himself against the election results? Instead of just leaving peacefully? That's a new one for me. That's how you know the propaganda worked, it just weaves its way in and sticks instead of being filtered out.
Ask mike pence.


I'm asking you. How'd he do it? Did he hole himself up in the whitehouse with secret service covering entrances? Ask generals to stage a coup? Did he just refuse to leave? How? Give us something to substantiate this.
Really? Honestly its amazing conservative media is in such a state you wouldn't know about this:


Pence disputes Trump legal team's claims, and says Trump asked him "what he thought" they should do after 2020 election - CBS News

Vice president doesn't have power to 'change the outcome' of elections | AP News


What Mike Pence has said that could be used in a Donald Trump trial - ABC News


And then he just walked away. Wild. Quite the attempt to install himself.

"Hey consider this."

"No."

"But really, please just consider this."

"I don't have that authority."

*leaves.

Man, what a threat to democracy that guys was.
Aggrad08
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Now play it out where the vice president doesn't have the dignity to tell trump no.

Play out your response as if it was kamala or biden. Thinking people can't take this seriously as no big deal. You certainly wouldn't if the other team tried.
BluHorseShu
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aggiedad55 said:

I don't hate the other side. I have many friends that voted for Trump and are still friends.
I did not vote for Trump and will never vote for anyone I consider morally bankrupt.
Everyone I know that voted Democrat, which granted isn't a lot, don't hate Republicans. I use D and R because left and right seemed to be used as pejoratives these days and most of America is much closer to the center than to the extremes. I do, however, some R's that have extreme disdain for democrats and would like to see them some how punished for.....just voting for a Democrat. I realize part of this is just that I live in Texas which is predominantly Republican so you're bound to run into some on the more extreme right. But again, most people I run with vote R and do not 'hate' the other side.

The internet and the media on both sides have helped perpetuate this myth that Americans hate the other side. What they do hate is a bad economy, lax immigration, and electing more politicians that will do and say anything to be elected but do not have the morals/ethics most of us used to expect of our representatives.

Anyone who says, I don't care about their character or beliefs as long as they get things done. Mr Scratch brought about prosperity for a while too...
AGC
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Aggrad08 said:

Now play it out where the vice president doesn't have the dignity to tell trump no.

Play out your response as if it was kamala or biden. Thinking people can't take this seriously as no big deal. You certainly wouldn't if the other team tried.


So somewhere in the multiverse it happens differently and because of that, it's basically the same thing as trying to install himself as president here in our dimension and I should be upset?

When waitresses seat my family by the kitchen, I ask to be moved. Am I trying to install myself somewhere else, against the will of the restaurant?
Silent For Too Long
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Oh my God you actually still buy into the Russian Collusian Hoax! Wow. I...I thought you has better discernment then that. Mea culpa.

Trump was impeached for snooping into the Biden honey pot. Don't be so easily manipulated.

Three scientists working on gain of function research got covid symptoms in September. China pulls the Covid genome sequences off line a week later. Anybody whose head isn't exploring rectal adventures knows perfectly well where it came from. The fact that Trump was president at the time is irrelevant. In fact, what was borderline treasonous is how many establishment cronies of both parties were willing to ignore the duly elected president.

I'm not even going to bother discussing the laptop with you any further. Go ask lifelong Democrat Matt Tiabi what he thinks about that whole issue.

You have bought into so many outright lies you literally are blind to reality.
Sapper Redux
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You're consistently peddling a very right wing narrative that is not at all supported by the totality of the evidence and then claiming everyone else is duped? You don't ever stop to think maybe your information is cherry-picked based on your existing beliefs?
Silent For Too Long
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Yeah. Matt Tiabi. VERY right wing.

Great take sap.
Rocag
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Nothing I said about Manafort or the Trump Tower meeting is at all controversial. That stuff happened. We absolutely know it did. Now you could argue that any Russian efforts to influence the 2016 probably had limited effectiveness. I'd say that was likely true. But people at the highest levels in his campaign were very obviously willing to solicit and accept assistance from people they knew were connected to the Russian government.

Republicans spent the last four years investigating Joe Biden. There was no honey pot. The 10% quote you guys like to throw around was in regards to his son's proposed business deal being negotiated after Biden was out of office that never actually happened.

Every reference I can find says the illnesses within the Wuhan Institute of Virology happened in November, not September. And that COVID was slow to be recognized because the normal seasonal flu was particularly bad that year. Most independent studies agree that the lab leak idea is plausible, but it could have also been a natural occurrence. I tend to not agree with any idea that it was purposefully leaked by the Chinese government. Doesn't make much sense to me.

Taibbi's Twitter files was pretty underwhelming. It showed that their initial reaction was based on the idea that the files were from a hacked source. Kind of like how this year Twitter blocked the release of the JD Vance files. Was that unfair censorship?
Sapper Redux
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Silent For Too Long said:

Yeah. Matt Tiabi. VERY right wing.

Great take sap.


Trying to sort people into neat little boxes isn't helping you. Tiabbi has been friendly to Russia for years and has frequently been friendly to right wing culture and media claims.
Aggrad08
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AGC said:

Aggrad08 said:

Now play it out where the vice president doesn't have the dignity to tell trump no.

Play out your response as if it was kamala or biden. Thinking people can't take this seriously as no big deal. You certainly wouldn't if the other team tried.


So somewhere in the multiverse it happens differently and because of that, it's basically the same thing as trying to install himself as president here in our dimension and I should be upset?

When waitresses seat my family by the kitchen, I ask to be moved. Am I trying to install myself somewhere else, against the will of the restaurant?
Come on man you are smarter than this. You really think that's an apt analogy? That's really genuinely comparable in your eyes? That really how you'd view it if a democrat did the same? Let's examine this a bit.

First in your example the fundamental desire isn't explicitly wrong or harmful. Moving your family away from the kitchen is a neutral action. Do you think Kamala trying to install herself as president even though she lost a neutral action? Of course not, because that would be absurd. So why did you even say it? Come up with any example where the attempted action is actually harmful, and you will see your argument fall apart.

Now since it's an R&P board discuss whether an action is suddenly moral or at best inconsequential because despite the intent it failed.

Let's take your example to the extreme, let's say trump ordered a nuclear strike on Russia and his generals said no. Trump then relents and nothing happens. Does his generals saying no and nothing happening remove the danger of the action, the moral responsibility of the person attempting the action, and the justification for the general public to be enraged?

Of course not. You aren't absurd enough to think so, your entire argument is utterly bunk and if this were any other context you'd immediately see how silly that is. That's the issue with people defending trump, they get forced into making utterly ridiculous assertions to defend a stupid small man.

AggieRain
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Silent For Too Long said:

Yeah. Matt Tiabi. VERY right wing.

Great take sap.


Put down your sword, and enjoy the victory, brother. All the right pigs are squealing...
Silent For Too Long
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Sapper Redux said:

Silent For Too Long said:

Yeah. Matt Tiabi. VERY right wing.

Great take sap.


Trying to sort people into neat little boxes isn't helping you. Tiabbi has been friendly to Russia for years and has frequently been friendly to right wing culture and media claims.


Oh so fomer hero of the left Matt Tiabi is a Russian Asset too?

"Everyone I disagree with is either literally Hitler or a Russian Asset"

-2024 Neo Marxists
Silent For Too Long
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There was no Russian Collusion. Period. Multiple investigations have cleared that nonsense.
Quote:


The U.S. government has reason to believe that several researchers inside the WIV became sick in autumn 2019, before the first identified case of the outbreak, with symptoms consistent with Covid-19

Quote:


Rep. Lesko: "Do you believe we can have certainty that the virus did not come from the Wuhan lab and that U.S. funding was not used for coronavirus research?"

Dr. Redfield: "Absolutely we cannot do that. It's now declassified now, but in September 2019, three things happened in that lab. One, they deleted the sequences. That is highly irregularresearchers don't usually like to do that. Second, they commanded the command and control of the lab from civilian control to military control. Highly unusual. And the third thing they did, which I think is really telling, is they let a contractor re-do the ventilation system in that laboratory. There is strong evidence there was a significant event in that laboratory in September 2019."


Do you really not understand how to Google things friend ?
Rocag
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I know basically nothing about this alleged "hero of the left", but a quick look at his Wiki page shows he spent 10 years living in Russia. Maybe it means something, maybe not. Interesting though, isn't it?
Rocag
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Other sources disagree with Redfield's statement there.

CNN: "A US intelligence report found that several researchers at China's Wuhan Institute of Virology fell ill in November 2019 and had to be hospitalized..."

Director of National Intelligence:
"While several WIV researchers fell mildly ill in Fall 2019, they experienced a range of symptoms consistent with colds or allergies with accompanying symptoms typically not associated with COVID-19, and some of them were confirmed to have been sick with other illnesses unrelated to COVID-19."

Not nearly as clear cut as you presume.

And on 2016/Russia, those events happened. Just like Trump publicly asking for Russia to find and release Clinton's emails. That happened too.

And the Senate report outlines the connections between Trump campaign staff and people representing the Russian government. The Republican response is mainly that even though they were working together and sharing information it wasn't technically collusion. Whatever.
BluHorseShu
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AGC said:

Aggrad08 said:

AGC said:

Trump tried to install himself against the election results? Instead of just leaving peacefully? That's a new one for me. That's how you know the propaganda worked, it just weaves its way in and sticks instead of being filtered out.
Ask mike pence.


I'm asking you. How'd he do it? Did he hole himself up in the whitehouse with secret service covering entrances? Ask generals to stage a coup? Did he just refuse to leave? How? Give us something to substantiate this.
He tried to force Pence not to accept the state electors and had back up electors ready to submit their votes for himself. Just asking Pence to go against the constitution was enough to show intent. I voted for for the R nominee this time, again, but I trust Pence's word against Trump's any day of the week when it comes to the evidence.
BluHorseShu
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Silent For Too Long said:

Sapper Redux said:

Silent For Too Long said:

Yeah. Matt Tiabi. VERY right wing.

Great take sap.


Trying to sort people into neat little boxes isn't helping you. Tiabbi has been friendly to Russia for years and has frequently been friendly to right wing culture and media claims.


Oh so fomer hero of the left Matt Tiabi is a Russian Asset too?

"Everyone I disagree with is either literally Hitler or a Russian Asset"

-2024 Neo Marxists
"Everyone I disagree with is a communist or wants to dismantle our democracy". - 2024 Trump sycophants.

Anyone on either side that believes the entirety of the other side hates them is actually on the fringe of that side. 95% of Americans do not hate those who voted for the other party. And singling out a presidential nominee to disparage with comments in no way assumes the entirety of those support that nominee meet that description. I don't think everyone on the right believes everyone on the left is a seaward just bc Trump called her that.
Its horrible we've come to this in our election years, and certainly despicable from a Christian perspective, but there is blame equally on both sides.
AGC
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BluHorseShu said:

AGC said:

Aggrad08 said:

AGC said:

Trump tried to install himself against the election results? Instead of just leaving peacefully? That's a new one for me. That's how you know the propaganda worked, it just weaves its way in and sticks instead of being filtered out.
Ask mike pence.


I'm asking you. How'd he do it? Did he hole himself up in the whitehouse with secret service covering entrances? Ask generals to stage a coup? Did he just refuse to leave? How? Give us something to substantiate this.
He tried to force Pence not to accept the state electors and had back up electors ready to submit their votes for himself. Just asking Pence to go against the constitution was enough to show intent. I voted for for the R nominee this time, again, but I trust Pence's word against Trump's any day of the week when it comes to the evidence.


Tried to force? How? Holding a gun? Blackmail? Extortion? Come on man. Asking questions where someone can say, 'no' and accepting the answer by walking out peacefully doesn't support the assertion. If you want to believe he asked, that's fine. But it's pretty indisputable that words and actions are two different things and all of the handwringing is over questions because at the end of the day, he didn't do the things you (and others) want him to be guilty of.
 
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