dermdoc said:

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kurt vonnegut said:

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nortex97 said:

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There is just a tad bit of irony in the 'let's just unify now and be civil' argument from the left after they quite literally campaigned on 'the other guy is Hitler/nazi/racist/hates Puerto Rico' a week ago as their closing argument (and repeated 'very fine people' lies), also after threatening to imprison the conservative candidate for life if he lost.

---

Read the thread. . . . . Derm was the one that called for reconciliation and I'm asking him what his version of reconciliation looks like.

---

I mentioned Tip O'Neil and Ronald Reagan.

Both statesmen. Disagreed on issues but in a civil manner. And I think they both put the country before themselves.

And the media needs to start acting like adults when their candidate loses.

---

Agree. And also when their candidate wins. I get tired hearing about 'MSM' since its all just media. Anyone who fully trusts any news outlet (MSN, CNN, FOX, Wash Post, Wash Times, etc) or even any forums or podcasts they listen to because they 'like' their takes needs to understand that all media exist for 1 purpose, to make money by increasing viewership.

A completely unbiased, editorialized news source doesn't exist because it would not succeed. So people need to trust but verify their sources and check opposing mediums.

Its like my inlaws that have FOX on 24/7 and the volume at 11....The only information they can discuss only comes from there.

As citizens, we need to make an effort for civility. O'Neil and Reagan would be so incredibly saddened by todays politics and politicians. Would be nice if our politicians actually modeled the civility.

There was that sure, also the fact the Donald Trump has claimed fraud in every race he's lost and even some where he won. I'm sure that had nothing to do with it…

dermdoc said:

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Aggrad08 said:

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On the bright side people suddenly lost the complete confidence that election determinable fraud was widespread. So at least that's a nice thing we don't need to spend four more years hearing about.

---

2020 election was an outlier in a lot of ways. And that led to the lack of confidence.

---

How was it an outlier? Trump and company spent 4 years talking about widespread fraud, but everything I have been able to find points to there being no widespread fraud. There were confirmed cases of small numbers of fraudulent votes, but nothing that would have moved the needle. If I'm consuming the wrong media, let me know.

Larry Hagman said:

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Sapper Redux said:

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nortex97 said:

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dermdoc said:

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kurt vonnegut said:

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nortex97 said:

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There is just a tad bit of irony in the 'let's just unify now and be civil' argument from the left after they quite literally campaigned on 'the other guy is Hitler/nazi/racist/hates Puerto Rico' a week ago as their closing argument (and repeated 'very fine people' lies), also after threatening to imprison the conservative candidate for life if he lost.

---

Read the thread. . . . . Derm was the one that called for reconciliation and I'm asking him what his version of reconciliation looks like.

---

I mentioned Tip O'Neil and Ronald Reagan.

Both statesmen. Disagreed on issues but in a civil manner. And I think they both put the country before themselves.

And the media needs to start acting like adults when their candidate loses.

---

That was a completely different time/situation though. The vitriol, treason and hate spewed by the left do not warrant consideration and reconciliation/accommodation. None of Tip O'neil's members in the early/mid 80's supported open borders and human trafficking, nor did they accuse Reagan of being Hitler and support imprisoning him. I think it's a category error as such to compare the situations.

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Yes, only on the left. No vitriol on the right. Certainly not the presidential nominee calling for his opponents to be prosecuted and attacking immigrants and transgender people.

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can you cite where he attacked legal immigration? same for trans people,

k thnx

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His entire closing pitch on television were anti-transgender ads. Oh, and did you miss the first debate where he accused legal immigrants of eating dogs and cats?

kurt vonnegut said:

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dermdoc said:

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Aggrad08 said:

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On the bright side people suddenly lost the complete confidence that election determinable fraud was widespread. So at least that's a nice thing we don't need to spend four more years hearing about.

---

2020 election was an outlier in a lot of ways. And that led to the lack of confidence.

---

How was it an outlier? Trump and company spent 4 years talking about widespread fraud, but everything I have been able to find points to there being no widespread fraud. There were confirmed cases of small numbers of fraudulent votes, but nothing that would have moved the needle. If I'm consuming the wrong media, let me know.

---

First of all, mail in ballot numbers.

Second of all, Joe Biden got the highest number of votes ever for a
presidential candidate.

Thirdly, the late night/early am ballot dumps.
Even if fraud was minimal, 2020 was definitely an outlier.

Sapper Redux said:

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nortex97 said:

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dermdoc said:

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kurt vonnegut said:

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nortex97 said:

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There is just a tad bit of irony in the 'let's just unify now and be civil' argument from the left after they quite literally campaigned on 'the other guy is Hitler/nazi/racist/hates Puerto Rico' a week ago as their closing argument (and repeated 'very fine people' lies), also after threatening to imprison the conservative candidate for life if he lost.

---

Read the thread. . . . . Derm was the one that called for reconciliation and I'm asking him what his version of reconciliation looks like.

---

I mentioned Tip O'Neil and Ronald Reagan.

Both statesmen. Disagreed on issues but in a civil manner. And I think they both put the country before themselves.

And the media needs to start acting like adults when their candidate loses.

---

That was a completely different time/situation though. The vitriol, treason and hate spewed by the left do not warrant consideration and reconciliation/accommodation. None of Tip O'neil's members in the early/mid 80's supported open borders and human trafficking, nor did they accuse Reagan of being Hitler and support imprisoning him. I think it's a category error as such to compare the situations.

---

Yes, only on the left. No vitriol on the right. Certainly not the presidential nominee calling for his opponents to be prosecuted and attacking immigrants and transgender people.

---

Trump never prosecuted Hillary, because he thought it would be bad for the country, despite her Russiagate lies/set up from Chris Steele et al. Legal changes to charge him for an accounting fraud he knew nothing about, ransacking his home over documents the FBI had the whole time, fake 30 year old rape charges by a fantasist, and 'election interference' charges by the lovely Fani Willis are what your party represents, period. Again, it's so morally depraved it warrants no consideration/compromise. CardiB and Meagan thee stallion are encapsulations of the morality and theology espoused.

Protecting kids from being castrated and put on HRT as well as our borders are part of the reason he won so convincingly. Glad you can appreciate that, at least.

So you admit the right slings mud and demonizes people. Glad we cleared that up.

Silent For Too Long said:

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Thank you for more thoughtful posts Kurt. What makes me say you are a victim of propaganda is, even when you see through some of the lies, you still identify things as facts that simply aren't true.

Take the Liz Cheney comment. The full context clearly shows his point is, paraphrasing:

Maybe she wouldn't like war so much if she actually had to serve in one.

There is absolutely nothing controversial about that statement. It's a statement democrats sad thousands of times about her father. But you have this skewed version in your head that simply isn't true.

Every single anti military comment he has allegedly said has come from neocons and has been contested by people who were in the room. I simply don't believe them for 1 second.

Also, some of the lies aren't just distorting one off statements, they completely undermined the duly elected president and cost the American tax payer tens of millions of dollars just prove it was bogus, when they new the entire time they made it up. Both Russian Collusion and the first Impeachement were the very definitions of corruption and abuse of power by the Democrats.

51 intelegence officials telling a bold face lie to the American people to sway an election only to suffer no repercussions is insane to me. And I never ever see anyone on the left even willing to discuss it. I don't recall one of you saying once in the last 4 years how completely awful that was.

So when I see The Machine so brutally and dishonestly attack a guy they use to love, I'm gonna give him a little leeway in how he chooses to fight back.

When a thoroughly corrupt, dementia patient can hide in a basement and get 11 million more votes then Kamala and 16 million more votes then Hillary, I'm gonna go to my grave knowing in my heart that something extremely nefarious happened in 2020 and Trump had a duty to the American people to fight it every way he could.

When you remove all the lies about Trump you are basically left with someone with equivalent baggage as Bill Clinton. In fact, I would say the accusations against Slick Willie were far, far more credible then E Jean Carrols.

---

Whatever emoji represents exhaustion, pretend thats what I clicked on.

I went back and looked at the Liz Cheney thing and I'm on board with you. Yeah, media overreacted and I have slept since all this and forgot what the context was.

This will be a shorter response. I feel like I've had this discussion a thousand times in the last 8 years and I don't want to do it anymore. You can poke holes in plenty of the Trump criticisms and that is fine and great. Like. . . . . Lets judge him for a second for just the things he's posted on social media and things we have video evidence of him saying. The guy is an *******, right? Maybe not 100% *******. But its not great. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills when I talk to half the conservatives out there who think he's the second coming of Jesus.

I just so desperately want to find conservatives who at least pretend to give a **** about a president who just posts non stop hateful things to people who disagree with him. I don't care about the whataboutisms. I don't care that the media sucks. I don't care that the democrats did this or that.

I am fine if you want to hold democrats and media accountable for what they do. I just can't understand why there are no conservatives left who want to hold him accountable for what he says.

Hillary called Trump supporters a basket of deplorables and was rightly criticized. Trump does the equivalent constantly and its ****ing crickets.

dermdoc said:

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kurt vonnegut said:

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dermdoc said:

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Aggrad08 said:

---

On the bright side people suddenly lost the complete confidence that election determinable fraud was widespread. So at least that's a nice thing we don't need to spend four more years hearing about.

---

2020 election was an outlier in a lot of ways. And that led to the lack of confidence.

---

How was it an outlier? Trump and company spent 4 years talking about widespread fraud, but everything I have been able to find points to there being no widespread fraud. There were confirmed cases of small numbers of fraudulent votes, but nothing that would have moved the needle. If I'm consuming the wrong media, let me know.

---

First of all, mail in ballot numbers.

Second of all, Joe Biden got the highest number of votes ever for a
presidential candidate.

Thirdly, the late night/early am ballot dumps.
Even if fraud was minimal, 2020 was definitely an outlier.

---

What about those items? Were there significant numbers of mail in ballots that were fraudulent? How do you know? Was it investigated? What were the results of those investigations? How about the 'ballot dumps'?

Here's the deal - if it can be proven that there was widespread fraud in the 2020 election, I will grab a torch and pitchfork and march on the Democratic SOBs responsible - right by your side. But, if your proof consists of Donald Trump stating 10,000 times that there was fraud and he's the biggest victim thats ever victim'ed, then I'd call this a conspiracy theory.

You can't just say those things like they are proof. Show me the investigation and evidence and court rulings. Because literally every single one that I've read says there was equally as much fraud on the right as there was on the left and that none of it made any significant difference.

But, maybe I've been brainwashed. Show me something other than Trump complaining about how unfair everyone is to him.

So, educate me. . . .

kurt vonnegut said:

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dermdoc said:

---

kurt vonnegut said:

---

dermdoc said:

---

Aggrad08 said:

---

On the bright side people suddenly lost the complete confidence that election determinable fraud was widespread. So at least that's a nice thing we don't need to spend four more years hearing about.

---

2020 election was an outlier in a lot of ways. And that led to the lack of confidence.

---

How was it an outlier? Trump and company spent 4 years talking about widespread fraud, but everything I have been able to find points to there being no widespread fraud. There were confirmed cases of small numbers of fraudulent votes, but nothing that would have moved the needle. If I'm consuming the wrong media, let me know.

---

First of all, mail in ballot numbers.

Second of all, Joe Biden got the highest number of votes ever for a
presidential candidate.

Thirdly, the late night/early am ballot dumps.
Even if fraud was minimal, 2020 was definitely an outlier.

---

What about those items? Were there significant numbers of mail in ballots that were fraudulent? How do you know? Was it investigated? What were the results of those investigations? How about the 'ballot dumps'?

Here's the deal - if it can be proven that there was widespread fraud in the 2020 election, I will grab a torch and pitchfork and march on the Democratic SOBs responsible - right by your side. But, if your proof consists of Donald Trump stating 10,000 times that there was fraud and he's the biggest victim thats ever victim'ed, then I'd call this a conspiracy theory.

You can't just say those things like they are proof. Show me the investigation and evidence and court rulings. Because literally every single one that I've read says there was equally as much fraud on the right as there was on the left and that none of it made any significant difference.

But, maybe I've been brainwashed. Show me something other than Trump complaining about how unfair everyone is to him.

So, educate me. . . .

---

With all due respect, I just said it was an outlier for a lot of reasons. All related to Covid.

"Even if fraud was minimal, 2020 was an outlier".

What exactly did I say? And I could care less what Trump or any politician says. But I can read numbers and make what I feel are logical conclusions.

I stand by the outlier remark for the reasons listed.

nortex97 said:

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dermdoc said:

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kurt vonnegut said:

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nortex97 said:

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There is just a tad bit of irony in the 'let's just unify now and be civil' argument from the left after they quite literally campaigned on 'the other guy is Hitler/nazi/racist/hates Puerto Rico' a week ago as their closing argument (and repeated 'very fine people' lies), also after threatening to imprison the conservative candidate for life if he lost.

---

Read the thread. . . . . Derm was the one that called for reconciliation and I'm asking him what his version of reconciliation looks like.

---

I mentioned Tip O'Neil and Ronald Reagan.

Both statesmen. Disagreed on issues but in a civil manner. And I think they both put the country before themselves.

And the media needs to start acting like adults when their candidate loses.

---

That was a completely different time/situation though. The vitriol, treason and hate spewed by the left do not warrant consideration and reconciliation/accommodation. None of Tip O'neil's members in the early/mid 80's supported open borders and human trafficking, nor did they accuse Reagan of being Hitler and support imprisoning him. I think it's a category error as such to compare the situations.

---

If you believe the right did not spew vitriol and hate you are being disingenuous. You spend a great deal of time on F16 so you know the things that are said by some (though I believe these are more extreme views). The victimhood when Biden was in office and equating with the Jews by claiming they'd have to wear yellow stars is some how soon forgotten. But the campaign on the right said things that were just as bad.
It is hilarious that people try to claim one spewed more hate and disrespect that the other. I also don't remember a presidential candidate calling another female a 'Dumb B*tch' a fascist, that they earned their way on their knees. Nor do I remember another presidential candidate talking about jailing their political opponents.
Get out of here with that. Tell me you truly believe in your heart that the language used in Trumps campaign . And to claim no reconciliation says you are not for forgiveness. So I guess Christian values are only to be applied to those who agree with us. This is why being a Christian should in no way be defined by a political party.

nortex97 said:

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BluHorseShu said:

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nortex97 said:

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dermdoc said:

---

kurt vonnegut said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

There is just a tad bit of irony in the 'let's just unify now and be civil' argument from the left after they quite literally campaigned on 'the other guy is Hitler/nazi/racist/hates Puerto Rico' a week ago as their closing argument (and repeated 'very fine people' lies), also after threatening to imprison the conservative candidate for life if he lost.

---

Read the thread. . . . . Derm was the one that called for reconciliation and I'm asking him what his version of reconciliation looks like.

---

I mentioned Tip O'Neil and Ronald Reagan.

Both statesmen. Disagreed on issues but in a civil manner. And I think they both put the country before themselves.

And the media needs to start acting like adults when their candidate loses.

---

That was a completely different time/situation though. The vitriol, treason and hate spewed by the left do not warrant consideration and reconciliation/accommodation. None of Tip O'neil's members in the early/mid 80's supported open borders and human trafficking, nor did they accuse Reagan of being Hitler and support imprisoning him. I think it's a category error as such to compare the situations.

---

If you believe the right did not spew vitriol and hate you are being disingenuous. You spend a great deal of time on F16 so you know the things that are said by some (though I believe these are more extreme views). The victimhood when Biden was in office and equating with the Jews by claiming they'd have to wear yellow stars is some how soon forgotten. But the campaign on the right said things that were just as bad.
It is hilarious that people try to claim one spewed more hate and disrespect that the other. I also don't remember a presidential candidate calling another female a 'Dumb B*tch' a fascist, that they earned their way on their knees. Nor do I remember another presidential candidate talking about jailing their political opponents.
Get out of here with that. Tell me you truly believe in your heart that the language used in Trumps campaign . And to claim no reconciliation says you are not for forgiveness. So I guess Christian values are only to be applied to those who agree with us. This is why being a Christian should in no way be defined by a political party.

---

Let go of your anger, it's not rhetorically effective. Kamala was a terrible role model for young women/girls, as her early career/start typified, I would like to think we agree. Trump obviously campaigned with an open to all, embracing message, which is why he did so much better with hispanics etc (every single RGV county, oh by the way). I see him as more of a pluralist (as shown by his Jewish grandkids etc) than simply a christian leader. I don't seek moral/religious purity in our political class but some of that stuff you typed out seems to imply I do, so I want to note this difference. I sure don't recall the left excoriating Bill Clinton's multitudinous moral failings.

I saw nothing Trump said as equivalent to the fascist/Hitler claims Kamala herself made. Forgiveness is up to God, not me, but I see no reason to reconcile with the Democrats/communists on the left in America today. They were resoundingly rejected, and deserve to continue to be so rejected by Americans who reject their identity politics and human trafficking/infanticide sacraments.

---

Funny that you assigned anger in my post. Funny also that you think forgiveness is only for God. We can probably agree to disagree here. I pray that God might speak to your heart though and encourage you to revisit scripture. Particularly the 2 most important commandments Jesus gave in Mark. Triumphalism is not the Christian way

Once again we are talking about 2020 and not a single poster on the left wants to even mention the 51 intelligence officials that lied to the American public abour Hunter's laptop, and there absolutely are studies that show that very easily gave the pedophile the White House.

The fact that ya'll won't even discuss it screams volumes.

You can pretend all you want that there incredible, historical unprecedented, success in MIVs was all legitimate. But the lying intelligence officials is so massive your cognitive dissonance refuses to even address it.

No one is calling him the 2nd coming of Jesus, Kurt.

The bottom line is the media and Dems drew first blood with Trump. Go watch Obamas correspindence dinner. They went from loving him to hating him in the nastiest of ways. That's why I've really grown quite tolerant of his return rhetoric.

Pretty much every poster on this thread has tilted at one time or another when you let someone get under you skin. Tell me with a straight face you could have handled to outright attack Trump endured better then he did.

BluHorseShu said:

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nortex97 said:

---

BluHorseShu said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

dermdoc said:

---

kurt vonnegut said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

There is just a tad bit of irony in the 'let's just unify now and be civil' argument from the left after they quite literally campaigned on 'the other guy is Hitler/nazi/racist/hates Puerto Rico' a week ago as their closing argument (and repeated 'very fine people' lies), also after threatening to imprison the conservative candidate for life if he lost.

---

Read the thread. . . . . Derm was the one that called for reconciliation and I'm asking him what his version of reconciliation looks like.

---

I mentioned Tip O'Neil and Ronald Reagan.

Both statesmen. Disagreed on issues but in a civil manner. And I think they both put the country before themselves.

And the media needs to start acting like adults when their candidate loses.

---

That was a completely different time/situation though. The vitriol, treason and hate spewed by the left do not warrant consideration and reconciliation/accommodation. None of Tip O'neil's members in the early/mid 80's supported open borders and human trafficking, nor did they accuse Reagan of being Hitler and support imprisoning him. I think it's a category error as such to compare the situations.

---

If you believe the right did not spew vitriol and hate you are being disingenuous. You spend a great deal of time on F16 so you know the things that are said by some (though I believe these are more extreme views). The victimhood when Biden was in office and equating with the Jews by claiming they'd have to wear yellow stars is some how soon forgotten. But the campaign on the right said things that were just as bad.
It is hilarious that people try to claim one spewed more hate and disrespect that the other. I also don't remember a presidential candidate calling another female a 'Dumb B*tch' a fascist, that they earned their way on their knees. Nor do I remember another presidential candidate talking about jailing their political opponents.
Get out of here with that. Tell me you truly believe in your heart that the language used in Trumps campaign . And to claim no reconciliation says you are not for forgiveness. So I guess Christian values are only to be applied to those who agree with us. This is why being a Christian should in no way be defined by a political party.

---

Let go of your anger, it's not rhetorically effective. Kamala was a terrible role model for young women/girls, as her early career/start typified, I would like to think we agree. Trump obviously campaigned with an open to all, embracing message, which is why he did so much better with hispanics etc (every single RGV county, oh by the way). I see him as more of a pluralist (as shown by his Jewish grandkids etc) than simply a christian leader. I don't seek moral/religious purity in our political class but some of that stuff you typed out seems to imply I do, so I want to note this difference. I sure don't recall the left excoriating Bill Clinton's multitudinous moral failings.

I saw nothing Trump said as equivalent to the fascist/Hitler claims Kamala herself made. Forgiveness is up to God, not me, but I see no reason to reconcile with the Democrats/communists on the left in America today. They were resoundingly rejected, and deserve to continue to be so rejected by Americans who reject their identity politics and human trafficking/infanticide sacraments.

---

Funny that you assigned anger in my post. Funny also that you think forgiveness is only for God. We can probably agree to disagree here. I pray that God might speak to your heart though and encourage you to revisit scripture. Particularly the 2 most important commandments Jesus gave in Mark. Triumphalism is not the Christian way

---

Because you are still angry and lying about what Trump campaigned on. There is no (christian) duty to forgive an unrepentant party (especially not one that is not a person). The party that wanted to imprison and censor their opposition, while empowering human trafficking and the downfall of our nation deserves no quarter, in a way that is akin philosophically to the justification for total war. (It is cruel and pointless to wage war without an objective to totally conquer an enemy/people.).

There have been no apologies or defenses for calling Trump Hitler/a fascist, because they are non-apologetic. Their goals are anathema to me and the safety of my family, and should not be accommodated. The Democrat party delende est.