I don't mean this in a rude way: you seem incapable of seeing this through the eyes of the people advocating for nicer dress. We can say it has nothing to do with judging people and everything to do with people giving their best to God but you repeat that you do not believe us. So we are liars to you.

Sometimes people need to be encouraged to do give their best and this is clear in multiple areas:

- you should read your Bible more
- you should flee from sin or even areas of temptation
- you should make prayer central to your life


We can recommend all of those things without judging someone. Why can't we do that with corporate worship without judging people's souls?

A little off topic but "judging others" is Biblical in the sense of how we spur one another on to good deeds, rebuking one another for sin, etc.

So if I showed up to church Sunday in a tank top and flip flops, I would fully expect an elder or our pastor to engage me on the matter. They would be "judging" my outward appearance and I have no issue with that because I know it is coming not from a legalistic standpoint. But one of encouraging us to revere God in all aspects of life. I think dress can be a part of that discussion. I do think geography, socioeconomics and culture can also play a role in how dress isn't the same for everyone. But if your job is good enough to wear a nice pair of pants and a polo shirt, why isn't church?

Judgement for the non-believer is reserved for God alone.

Either God's love and the Gospel are valid for all people everywhere, or they're valid for none.

If you're following the Great Commission to preach the Gospel to all nations, and your missionary work takes you to a remote village where everyone wears only loincloths with no tops, what are God's prerequisites for what these people must do before they can embrace the Gospel and gather among themselves to worship communally, and what are the prerequisites you personally want to place upon them before you personally are comfortable because now they look like your earthbound cultural expectations?

To people raised in a culture pervaded by shame, the simple absence of shame will always appear brazen.

10andBOUNCE said:

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A little off topic but "judging others" is Biblical in the sense of how we spur one another on to good deeds, rebuking one another for sin, etc.

So if I showed up to church Sunday in a tank top and flip flops, I would fully expect an elder or our pastor to engage me on the matter. They would be "judging" my outward appearance and I have no issue with that because I know it is coming not from a legalistic standpoint. But one of encouraging us to revere God in all aspects of life. I think dress can be a part of that discussion. I do think geography, socioeconomics and culture can also play a role in how dress isn't the same for everyone. But if your job is good enough to wear a nice pair of pants and a polo shirt, why isn't church?

Judgement for the non-believer is reserved for God alone.

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My pastor and our members (we do not have elders) would welcome you with open arms and love.

Brazos Fellowship is a great place to worship.

Who functions as the overseers of the church if you don't have elders and deacons (or similar type of offices)?

10andBOUNCE said:

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Who functions as the overseers of the church if you don't have elders and deacons (or similar type of offices)?

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Have no idea. After being Deacon chair twice and head of every committee at the Baptist church I grew up in, it is kind of nice to just enjoy fellowship and worship.

We have baptized over 400 this year and money is never really mentioned and is not a problem. End of the year we always have the "Big Give" for 3-4 vetted local charities and usually raise close to 200k. And it goes directly to the charities. The church does not take a cut.

Do a lot of community charity and student outreach at A&M.

It is wonderful. Very similar to Grace Bible.

I always look at the people of the church. Their joy, love, etc. Those are the kind of people I want my grand kids to be around as they will usually become like them.

Worked for my kids.

10andBOUNCE said:

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A little off topic but "judging others" is Biblical in the sense of how we spur one another on to good deeds, rebuking one another for sin, etc.

So if I showed up to church Sunday in a tank top and flip flops, I would fully expect an elder or our pastor to engage me on the matter. They would be "judging" my outward appearance and I have no issue with that because I know it is coming not from a legalistic standpoint. But one of encouraging us to revere God in all aspects of life. I think dress can be a part of that discussion. I do think geography, socioeconomics and culture can also play a role in how dress isn't the same for everyone. But if your job is good enough to wear a nice pair of pants and a polo shirt, why isn't church?

Judgement for the non-believer is reserved for God alone.

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I agree with the idea that we are all called to be our brothers keeper....however, I think we all know that 'judging' others can come from a place of love or a place of triumphalism and need to shame others. There is a proper way to judge others and as dress codes go, I think that a significantly different and gray area from say, sinning. Judging others can easily take the form of sin if done for ones own subtle satisfaction. Not saying this is what happens most of the time at all, but it happens and I'm sure we all know the difference in what it looks like.

That all being said, to me, the dress for things of worship and solemnity is a way of showing ones respect and reverence. But I think it should be like tithing, you are only expected to give in relation to your current status. If you cannot afford fancy clothes or coat and tie, then just clean neat appearance is perfectly fine.

On a much less important, but related topic...I want to go back to the days of people dressing up to fly on airplanes. The freakshow that passes for acceptable fashion in public in a hermetically sealed tube with hundreds of other people is just frightening. If you ask me, you could look at a plane load of passengers from the 60's, 70's and maybe into the 80's vs the same passengers today.....you can actually see the decline of western civilization

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If you ask me, you could look at a plane load of passengers from the 60's, 70's and maybe into the 80's vs the same passengers today.....you can actually see the decline of western civilization

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I would argue the level of service for the airlines preceded any decline in passenger dress.

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But I think it should be like tithing, you are only expected to give in relation to your current status. If you cannot afford fancy clothes or coat and tie, then just clean neat appearance is perfectly fine.

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I like that comparison

Also…

10andBOUNCE said:

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Quote:

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But I think it should be like tithing, you are only expected to give in relation to your current status. If you cannot afford fancy clothes or coat and tie, then just clean neat appearance is perfectly fine.

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I like that comparison

Also…

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True dat. I wore my dad's clip on for some time. And in the thrift shop culture today, you can really find some great stuff for dirt cheap. I do....but I draw the line at used footwear.

powerbelly said:

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Quote:

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If you ask me, you could look at a plane load of passengers from the 60's, 70's and maybe into the 80's vs the same passengers today.....you can actually see the decline of western civilization

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I would argue the level of service for the airlines preceded any decline in passenger dress.

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Probably right. I grew up being required to dress up when flying as a kid because my father worked for the airline. Of course that was also back when you had real silverware and the flight attendants didn't knock your tray off when the walked by.