What does God think of you and me

2,230 Views | 46 Replies | Last: 15 days ago by dermdoc
dermdoc
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AG
10andBOUNCE said:

dermdoc said:

10andBOUNCE said:

Did God love Esau?
You had to do it. Now look where we are.

And part of it is due to me. I am very competitive and always want to "win". This is not good in theological discussions with thoughtful, born again Christians.

So I am bowing out for a while as led by the Spirit.

If I had the foreknowledge to know it would have started something I would have been quiet.

Kind of just left a big bag of crap on the doorstep and left. My bad, bud!


It's okay buddy. This is the day the Lord hath made, let us rejoice and be glad in it.
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dermdoc
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AG
10andBOUNCE said:

I'll at least contribute something meaningful…RC always has a way with these answers.


Lots of truth there.
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dermdoc
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AG
And I just keep remembering the fruits of the Spirit

Peace, joy, love, patience, kindness, gentleness, faithfulness, generosity, and self control. God is good.
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one MEEN Ag
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Martin Q. Blank said:

Maybe we're reading a different Bible? These are the texts in question:

Rom. 9:10 And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, 11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or badin order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls 12 she was told, "The older will serve the younger." 13 As it is written, "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."

Mal. 1:2 "I have loved you," says the Lord. But you say, "How have you loved us?" "Is not Esau Jacob's brother?" declares the Lord. "Yet I have loved Jacob 3 but Esau I have hated. I have laid waste his hill country and left his heritage to jackals of the desert." 4 If Edom says, "We are shattered but we will rebuild the ruins," the Lord of hosts says, "They may build, but I will tear down, and they will be called 'the wicked country,' and 'the people with whom the Lord is angry forever.'" 5 Your own eyes shall see this, and you shall say, "Great is the Lord beyond the border of Israel!"
If this is a gotcha, its targeted towards those lacking church context and comprehension outside of the orthodox church here. You're not the first person to bring up the idea of 'God hates Esau-see see see. Its right here in Malachi.

https://blogs.ancientfaith.com/wholecounsel/2018/10/23/jacob-i-have-loved-esau-i-have-hated/

This blog goes through all of it. Main points:
-The story of Jacob and Esau is foundational to the people of Israel and shows the first divergence due to free will to reject Gods covenant made to Abraham. Isaac dutifully followed God and lived his life accordingly.
-Jacob (generally) does what is asked of him by God to establish a lineage. Esau (generally) does not. He takes two Hittite wives and is very flippant about the commandments of God to himself and his family.
-Malachi is written a thousand years after Jacob/Esau lived. It is a reflection of how the lineages played out over time with blessings for the faithful and devoted and desolation for those who rejected God.
-These are temporal punishments of this earth, the left hand of God to drive about our repentance. This is not nation sorting into the nicer part of Sheol versus the abyss nor final judgement.
-The reconciliation is a huge part of the story as both brothers bore different paths. They had enmity between themselves based upon how each of the brothers acted in front of God.

-Paul is bringing this up as pointed reflection of what the church of Rome is facing when he is writing this letter.
dermdoc
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one MEEN Ag said:

Martin Q. Blank said:

Maybe we're reading a different Bible? These are the texts in question:

Rom. 9:10 And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, 11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or badin order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls 12 she was told, "The older will serve the younger." 13 As it is written, "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."

Mal. 1:2 "I have loved you," says the Lord. But you say, "How have you loved us?" "Is not Esau Jacob's brother?" declares the Lord. "Yet I have loved Jacob 3 but Esau I have hated. I have laid waste his hill country and left his heritage to jackals of the desert." 4 If Edom says, "We are shattered but we will rebuild the ruins," the Lord of hosts says, "They may build, but I will tear down, and they will be called 'the wicked country,' and 'the people with whom the Lord is angry forever.'" 5 Your own eyes shall see this, and you shall say, "Great is the Lord beyond the border of Israel!"
If this is a gotcha, its targeted towards those lacking church context and comprehension outside of the orthodox church here. You're not the first person to bring up the idea of 'God hates Esau-see see see. Its right here in Malachi.

https://blogs.ancientfaith.com/wholecounsel/2018/10/23/jacob-i-have-loved-esau-i-have-hated/

This blog goes through all of it. Main points:
-The story of Jacob and Esau is foundational to the people of Israel and shows the first divergence due to free will to reject Gods covenant made to Abraham. Isaac dutifully followed God and lived his life accordingly.
-Jacob (generally) does what is asked of him by God to establish a lineage. Esau (generally) does not. He takes two Hittite wives and is very flippant about the commandments of God to himself and his family.
-Malachi is written a thousand years after Jacob/Esau lived. It is a reflection of how the lineages played out over time with blessings for the faithful and devoted and desolation for those who rejected God.
-These are temporal punishments of this earth, the left hand of God to drive about our repentance. This is not nation sorting into the nicer part of Sheol versus the abyss nor final judgement.
-The reconciliation is a huge part of the story as both brother bore different paths with enmity between themselves based upon how each of the brothers acted in front of God.

-Paul is bringing this up as pointed reflection of what the church of Rome is facing when he is writing this letter.


Agree. And that is basically what I was trying to say. You did it much better.
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88Warrior
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Is God even capable of hate when He instructs us not to?? I could see Him being disappointed or maybe giving more favorable status to one over another as parents do but the love of His children is always there…Do you still love your children when you must discipline them for their own good? Of course you do..Just my thoughts…
dermdoc
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AG
88Warrior said:

Is God even capable of hate when He instructs us not to?? I could see Him being disappointed or maybe giving more favorable status to one over another as parents do but the love of His children is always there…Do you still love your children when you must discipline them for their own good? Of course you do..Just my thoughts…
Yep. It is all about God's character.
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Martin Q. Blank
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88Warrior said:

Is God even capable of hate when He instructs us not to?? I could see Him being disappointed or maybe giving more favorable status to one over another as parents do but the love of His children is always there…Do you still love your children when you must discipline them for their own good? Of course you do..Just my thoughts…
1. God's hate is not our hate.
2. He instructs us to do a multitude of things that he himself has done. Sacrificing your child comes to mind. He is not subject to his law. Anything he does we know is good.
dermdoc
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Martin Q. Blank said:

88Warrior said:

Is God even capable of hate when He instructs us not to?? I could see Him being disappointed or maybe giving more favorable status to one over another as parents do but the love of His children is always there…Do you still love your children when you must discipline them for their own good? Of course you do..Just my thoughts…
1. God's hate is not our hate.
2. He instructs us to do a multitude of things that he himself has done. Sacrificing your child comes to mind. He is not subject to his law. Anything he does we know is good.


To my knowledge the only time God asked anyone to sacrifice their child was Abraham and Isaac. And I believe that was a prophetic foretelling of Jesus sacrifice.

I do not recall God telling us to sacrifice our children. In fact, God
got angry when the Israelites were sacrificing their kids to Molech. Which is something He states He had never even thought of.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Martin Q. Blank
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dermdoc said:

Martin Q. Blank said:

88Warrior said:

Is God even capable of hate when He instructs us not to?? I could see Him being disappointed or maybe giving more favorable status to one over another as parents do but the love of His children is always there…Do you still love your children when you must discipline them for their own good? Of course you do..Just my thoughts…
1. God's hate is not our hate.
2. He instructs us to do a multitude of things that he himself has done. Sacrificing your child comes to mind. He is not subject to his law. Anything he does we know is good.
To my knowledge the only time God asked anyone to sacrifice their child was Abraham and Isaac. And I believe that was a prophetic foretelling of Jesus sacrifice.

I do not recall God telling us to sacrifice our children. In fact, God
got angry when the Israelites were sacrificing their kids to Molech. Which is something He states He had never even thought of.
Yes, God commanded Abraham to sacrifice his son, which is against the moral law. Yet, Abraham was willing to do it because God was the one instructing him to do it.

Notwithstanding, God himself accepted the sacrifice of his own son, the Lord Jesus.
10andBOUNCE
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A few texts from this mornings reading:

Deuteronomy 28:62-63
English Standard Version
62 Whereas you were as numerous as the stars of heaven, you shall be left few in number, because you did not obey the voice of the Lord your God. 63 And as the Lord took delight in doing you good and multiplying you, so the Lord will take delight in bringing ruin upon you and destroying you. And you shall be plucked off the land that you are entering to take possession of it.

Psalm 135:6
English Standard Version
6 Whatever the Lord pleases, he does,
in heaven and on earth,
in the seas and all deeps.
dermdoc
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10andBOUNCE said:

A few texts from this mornings reading:

Deuteronomy 28:62-63
English Standard Version
62 Whereas you were as numerous as the stars of heaven, you shall be left few in number, because you did not obey the voice of the Lord your God. 63 And as the Lord took delight in doing you good and multiplying you, so the Lord will take delight in bringing ruin upon you and destroying you. And you shall be plucked off the land that you are entering to take possession of it.

Psalm 135:6
English Standard Version
6 Whatever the Lord pleases, he does,
in heaven and on earth,
in the seas and all deeps.

Thanks. God is sovereign and He is good. And He loves us.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
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