Refusing aid to migrants is a "grave sin" - Pope Francis

10,310 Views | 200 Replies | Last: 1 mo ago by nortex97
Sapper Redux
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Quo Vadis? said:

Sapper Redux said:

Quo Vadis? said:

barbacoa taco said:

Quo Vadis? said:

barbacoa taco said:

wow, where have I heard this statement before? hmm


There's a huge difference between the 18th century and the 21st. You could get away with genocide back then, you can't now.
Colonizers have tried to genocide the colonized since forever. And again, it doesn't have to mean killing every last person. It can also mean destroying entire societies such that they cannot function and will be gone within a generation.

I know I shouldn't be shocked by anything anymore, but it's really shocking hearing conservative Christians continuously defend these things (or deny them), and scold colonized people for resisting their own extermination. But if anything it's a lesson that history really never changes.


Give me a break. They slaughtered anyone with a drop of white blood. The Belgians were absolutely deserving of getting killed by the Congolese but that doesn't mean the Stanleyville Massacre and murder of women and children was warranted.

Again, if the French had wanted to destroy the Haitians so that these gone within a generation; there would be no Haiti today. The French had the power to do so, and the Haitians could not have stopped them.


This is absolutely not true. Polish legionaries and German settlers sided with the Haitians as did a large number of mixed race people. The brutality was against the French.


Yes, you're right. The ones that helped them kill the other Europeans they allowed to live. However you'll notice this quote doesn't say Frenchmen:

""For our declaration of independence, we should have the skin of a white man for parchment, his skull for an inkwell, his blood for ink, and a bayonet for a pen!"


Oh wow, a quote. Cool. Now let's look at what actually happened.
Rongagin71
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AG
Well, if you want to look at what actually happened, start with Yellow Fever.
Slavery is a very poor economic system, but it isn't a disease that kills at 20/25.
When Bonaparte sent an expedition in 1802 intending to reconquer Haiti,
it ran into desperate guerilla resistance but was mainly defeated by Yellow Fever.
Sapper Redux
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Over 1,000,000 slaves died on Saint Domingue. It was more profitable on sugar plantations to work slaves to death and import new ones than to keep existing slaves alive.
Rongagin71
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AG
I do not see how it could be more profitable to import new slaves unless the old ones were going to die of some disease anyway.

Edit: I do know that even in the American South, I would not have been comfortable mistreating slaves that outnumbered me by 50:1 (or whatever) - of course what they thought of as mistreatment would have been much more brutal than we in our air conditioned, mechanized world do.
nortex97
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I somehow knew this would devolve into a debate about ancient history, instead of the moral failures directly responsible for flying a hundred thousand Haitians into the US to be 'integrated' in random conservative communities. Probably when those of us opposed to that were just termed racists or something like that.

Destroying America won't help the world's poor and downtrodden, any more than how Marx and Engels' ideas and later followers have helped the people where they've been put into practice.
Rongagin71
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AG
Yeah, the 20,000 Haitians that were flown in are just going to be replaced by another 20,000 on the Island, and it won't take long. Meanwhile there is a new infection located in Ohio.
Now if there was a gradual, legal immigration of Haitians integrating into the U.S. - that might work to help both countries. But this dumping of 20,000 in Ohio was never meant to be anything but a weakening of America and a strengthening of the Worldwide Socialist Movement (ie the Democrats in the U.S.).
Sapper Redux
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nortex97 said:

I somehow knew this would devolve into a debate about ancient history, instead of the moral failures directly responsible for flying a hundred thousand Haitians into the US to be 'integrated' in random conservative communities. Probably when those of us opposed to that were just termed racists or something like that.

Destroying America won't help the world's poor and downtrodden, any more than how Marx and Engels' ideas and later followers have helped the people where they've been put into practice.


The Haitians who moved to Springfield did so because there were jobs available and by all accounts are doing good work. Yet somehow it's never this you focus on, but the origin of the people and tying it into some new idiotic conspiracy theory.
Sapper Redux
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Rongagin71 said:

I do not see how it could be more profitable to import new slaves unless the old ones were going to die of some disease anyway.

Edit: I do know that even in the American South, I would not have been comfortable mistreating slaves that outnumbered me by 50:1 (or whatever) - of course what they thought of as mistreatment would have been much more brutal than we in our air conditioned, mechanized world do.


It was more profitable on a sugar plantation to work a slave to death and draw every last ounce of profit out of them than it was to provide adequate food, shelter, clothing, care, and rest. And this was replicated in the American South as well to great success in the South Carolina rice plantations.

It's funny how this reality, one that killed 1,000,000 slaves in Saint Domingue, is questioned or excused while high dudgeon is expressed when the slaves launch a completely justified revolution that any rational person in their situation would support.
Rongagin71
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AG
High dudgeon?
No need to worry, Trump is not trying to bring back slavery.
But I would like to know more about what work the Haitians are doing,
that sounds good as long as you aren't counting waiting in line
for government services as work.
Quo Vadis?
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Rongagin71
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AG
Thats what I like - SCIENCE!
Quo Vadis?
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Rongagin71 said:

Thats what I like - SCIENCE!


The American theory of magic dirt.
nortex97
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AG
Sapper Redux said:

nortex97 said:

I somehow knew this would devolve into a debate about ancient history, instead of the moral failures directly responsible for flying a hundred thousand Haitians into the US to be 'integrated' in random conservative communities. Probably when those of us opposed to that were just termed racists or something like that.

Destroying America won't help the world's poor and downtrodden, any more than how Marx and Engels' ideas and later followers have helped the people where they've been put into practice.


The Haitians who moved to Springfield did so because there were jobs available and by all accounts are doing good work. Yet somehow it's never this you focus on, but the origin of the people and tying it into some new idiotic conspiracy theory.
Yes, I am sure you are right, 20,000 Haitians decided to fly from Port au Prince to Springfield Ohio because word got out that there were good jobs available there. I'm sure all orthodox marxists agree ('right thinking.'). LOLOL again, indeed. "By all Pravda accounts."
AGC
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AG
nortex97 said:

Sapper Redux said:

nortex97 said:

I somehow knew this would devolve into a debate about ancient history, instead of the moral failures directly responsible for flying a hundred thousand Haitians into the US to be 'integrated' in random conservative communities. Probably when those of us opposed to that were just termed racists or something like that.

Destroying America won't help the world's poor and downtrodden, any more than how Marx and Engels' ideas and later followers have helped the people where they've been put into practice.


The Haitians who moved to Springfield did so because there were jobs available and by all accounts are doing good work. Yet somehow it's never this you focus on, but the origin of the people and tying it into some new idiotic conspiracy theory.
Yes, I am sure you are right, 20,000 Haitians decided to fly from Port au Prince to Springfield Ohio because word got out that there were good jobs available there. I'm sure all orthodox marxists agree ('right thinking.'). LOLOL again, indeed. "By all Pravda accounts."


Town of 60K makes enough jobs for a 33% increase in population to all be gainfully employed and productive. Why isn't this growth hack being implemented everywhere? It's almost like it's really easy to see through the lie…
Quo Vadis?
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Sapper Redux said:

Quo Vadis? said:

Sapper Redux said:

Quo Vadis? said:

barbacoa taco said:

Quo Vadis? said:

barbacoa taco said:

wow, where have I heard this statement before? hmm


There's a huge difference between the 18th century and the 21st. You could get away with genocide back then, you can't now.
Colonizers have tried to genocide the colonized since forever. And again, it doesn't have to mean killing every last person. It can also mean destroying entire societies such that they cannot function and will be gone within a generation.

I know I shouldn't be shocked by anything anymore, but it's really shocking hearing conservative Christians continuously defend these things (or deny them), and scold colonized people for resisting their own extermination. But if anything it's a lesson that history really never changes.


Give me a break. They slaughtered anyone with a drop of white blood. The Belgians were absolutely deserving of getting killed by the Congolese but that doesn't mean the Stanleyville Massacre and murder of women and children was warranted.

Again, if the French had wanted to destroy the Haitians so that these gone within a generation; there would be no Haiti today. The French had the power to do so, and the Haitians could not have stopped them.


This is absolutely not true. Polish legionaries and German settlers sided with the Haitians as did a large number of mixed race people. The brutality was against the French.


Yes, you're right. The ones that helped them kill the other Europeans they allowed to live. However you'll notice this quote doesn't say Frenchmen:

""For our declaration of independence, we should have the skin of a white man for parchment, his skull for an inkwell, his blood for ink, and a bayonet for a pen!"


Oh wow, a quote. Cool. Now let's look at what actually happened.


Who is the quote from? Some random dude?
Quo Vadis?
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AGC said:

nortex97 said:

Sapper Redux said:

nortex97 said:

I somehow knew this would devolve into a debate about ancient history, instead of the moral failures directly responsible for flying a hundred thousand Haitians into the US to be 'integrated' in random conservative communities. Probably when those of us opposed to that were just termed racists or something like that.

Destroying America won't help the world's poor and downtrodden, any more than how Marx and Engels' ideas and later followers have helped the people where they've been put into practice.


The Haitians who moved to Springfield did so because there were jobs available and by all accounts are doing good work. Yet somehow it's never this you focus on, but the origin of the people and tying it into some new idiotic conspiracy theory.
Yes, I am sure you are right, 20,000 Haitians decided to fly from Port au Prince to Springfield Ohio because word got out that there were good jobs available there. I'm sure all orthodox marxists agree ('right thinking.'). LOLOL again, indeed. "By all Pravda accounts."


Town of 60K makes enough jobs for a 33% increase in population to all be gainfully employed and productive. Why isn't this growth hack being implemented everywhere? It's almost like it's really easy to see through the lie…


It's really amazing. The 20,000 jobs sprouted overnight and there was really no way to attract any actual Americans to take the jobs, they're all pill poppers and degenerates; so naturally we turned to Haiti. Who doesn't think of Haiti when looking to fill jobs?
AGC
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AG
Quo Vadis? said:

AGC said:

nortex97 said:

Sapper Redux said:

nortex97 said:

I somehow knew this would devolve into a debate about ancient history, instead of the moral failures directly responsible for flying a hundred thousand Haitians into the US to be 'integrated' in random conservative communities. Probably when those of us opposed to that were just termed racists or something like that.

Destroying America won't help the world's poor and downtrodden, any more than how Marx and Engels' ideas and later followers have helped the people where they've been put into practice.


The Haitians who moved to Springfield did so because there were jobs available and by all accounts are doing good work. Yet somehow it's never this you focus on, but the origin of the people and tying it into some new idiotic conspiracy theory.
Yes, I am sure you are right, 20,000 Haitians decided to fly from Port au Prince to Springfield Ohio because word got out that there were good jobs available there. I'm sure all orthodox marxists agree ('right thinking.'). LOLOL again, indeed. "By all Pravda accounts."


Town of 60K makes enough jobs for a 33% increase in population to all be gainfully employed and productive. Why isn't this growth hack being implemented everywhere? It's almost like it's really easy to see through the lie…


It's really amazing. The 20,000 jobs sprouted overnight and there was really no way to attract any actual Americans to take the jobs, they're all pill poppers and degenerates; so naturally we turned to Haiti. Who doesn't think of Haiti when looking to fill jobs?


Best consultants out there. They come in and trim the fat. They're ideal to lower headcount. Great hatchet-men.
barbacoa taco
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AG
Quo Vadis? said:

AGC said:

nortex97 said:

Sapper Redux said:

nortex97 said:

I somehow knew this would devolve into a debate about ancient history, instead of the moral failures directly responsible for flying a hundred thousand Haitians into the US to be 'integrated' in random conservative communities. Probably when those of us opposed to that were just termed racists or something like that.

Destroying America won't help the world's poor and downtrodden, any more than how Marx and Engels' ideas and later followers have helped the people where they've been put into practice.


The Haitians who moved to Springfield did so because there were jobs available and by all accounts are doing good work. Yet somehow it's never this you focus on, but the origin of the people and tying it into some new idiotic conspiracy theory.
Yes, I am sure you are right, 20,000 Haitians decided to fly from Port au Prince to Springfield Ohio because word got out that there were good jobs available there. I'm sure all orthodox marxists agree ('right thinking.'). LOLOL again, indeed. "By all Pravda accounts."


Town of 60K makes enough jobs for a 33% increase in population to all be gainfully employed and productive. Why isn't this growth hack being implemented everywhere? It's almost like it's really easy to see through the lie…


It's really amazing. The 20,000 jobs sprouted overnight and there was really no way to attract any actual Americans to take the jobs, they're all pill poppers and degenerates; so naturally we turned to Haiti. Who doesn't think of Haiti when looking to fill jobs?
Quo Vadis?
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barbacoa taco said:

Quo Vadis? said:

AGC said:

nortex97 said:

Sapper Redux said:

nortex97 said:

I somehow knew this would devolve into a debate about ancient history, instead of the moral failures directly responsible for flying a hundred thousand Haitians into the US to be 'integrated' in random conservative communities. Probably when those of us opposed to that were just termed racists or something like that.

Destroying America won't help the world's poor and downtrodden, any more than how Marx and Engels' ideas and later followers have helped the people where they've been put into practice.


The Haitians who moved to Springfield did so because there were jobs available and by all accounts are doing good work. Yet somehow it's never this you focus on, but the origin of the people and tying it into some new idiotic conspiracy theory.
Yes, I am sure you are right, 20,000 Haitians decided to fly from Port au Prince to Springfield Ohio because word got out that there were good jobs available there. I'm sure all orthodox marxists agree ('right thinking.'). LOLOL again, indeed. "By all Pravda accounts."


Town of 60K makes enough jobs for a 33% increase in population to all be gainfully employed and productive. Why isn't this growth hack being implemented everywhere? It's almost like it's really easy to see through the lie…


It's really amazing. The 20,000 jobs sprouted overnight and there was really no way to attract any actual Americans to take the jobs, they're all pill poppers and degenerates; so naturally we turned to Haiti. Who doesn't think of Haiti when looking to fill jobs?



I don't know why this is so funny, the political realignment has been fascinating to watch in real time. The left has turned from the party of the worker and the middle class to the party of big business and the robber baron.

These Haitians are depressing the wages of Ohioans. The fact that they can't find Americans to work at the jobs that they have open means they're not offering enough compensation. They can find good, trustworthy employees if they offer enough pay. The solution they're looking for is "raise compensation" not "import Haiti"

newbie11
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As a Christian, I do believe we are tasked with helping those in need.

However, it's the law of the United States to prevent unlawful entry to our country and we already have a lot of need here.

So….Im willing to help those who arrive here unannounced like I would anyone else. But should these people be arriving unannounced?

barbacoa taco
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AG
Because the only good faith complaint about the Haitian migrants is the growing pains that comes with thousands of people moving to a small city. They are here legally. To be honest it's quite disgusting seeing so many people spread so much hateful filth about them. Not only that, but not backing down from the eating pets claim when multiple city officials have stated there have been no credible reports of it happening. It's an online rumor. But those on the GOP ticket are still running with it.

and when pushed back on that claim on this thread, multiple posters went on tirades attacking the Haitian people and culture. It's really, really gross. I can't believe staff lets this **** stay up. It's so embarrassing.
PabloSerna
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AG
You have to dehumanize people in order to treat them with such hostility.
“Falsehood flies and the truth comes limping after it” -Jonathan Swift, 1710
Sapper Redux
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nortex97 said:

Sapper Redux said:

nortex97 said:

I somehow knew this would devolve into a debate about ancient history, instead of the moral failures directly responsible for flying a hundred thousand Haitians into the US to be 'integrated' in random conservative communities. Probably when those of us opposed to that were just termed racists or something like that.

Destroying America won't help the world's poor and downtrodden, any more than how Marx and Engels' ideas and later followers have helped the people where they've been put into practice.


The Haitians who moved to Springfield did so because there were jobs available and by all accounts are doing good work. Yet somehow it's never this you focus on, but the origin of the people and tying it into some new idiotic conspiracy theory.
Yes, I am sure you are right, 20,000 Haitians decided to fly from Port au Prince to Springfield Ohio because word got out that there were good jobs available there. I'm sure all orthodox marxists agree ('right thinking.'). LOLOL again, indeed. "By all Pravda accounts."


So you're not familiar with how chain migration works. You think all 20,000 appeared at once?
Sapper Redux
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PabloSerna said:

You have to dehumanize people in order to treat them with such hostility.


Just like to point out the number of Christians who are being blatantly bigoted in their depiction of Haitian people while trying to lecture me about morals or some such on other threads.
Quo Vadis?
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PabloSerna said:

You have to dehumanize people in order to treat them with such hostility.


Are you talking about the Ohioans who were accused of being drug addicts and degenerates as the excuse for why 20,000 Haitians were needed to fill the positions?

Oh, of course not
barbacoa taco
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AG
There have been multiple bomb threats at schools in Springfield, OH this week. JD Vance is causing terroristic threats to happen in his own state due to his own racist fearmongering.
Rongagin71
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AG
PabloSerna said:

You have to dehumanize people in order to treat them with such hostility.
You should stop doing that...including your own racist fearmongering.
Rongagin71
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AG
Sapper Redux said:

PabloSerna said:

You have to dehumanize people in order to treat them with such hostility.


Just like to point out the number of Christians who are being blatantly bigoted in their depiction of Haitian people while trying to lecture me about morals or some such on other threads.
I'd like to point whose country is being invaded and colonized.
Have you heard of self defense?
AggieRain
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AG
barbacoa taco said:

. JD Vance is causing terroristic threats to happen in his own state due to his own racist fearmongering.


Good grief. Get a grip.
barbacoa taco
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AG
I know Trump set the bar beneath the earth but you should have higher expectations for your leaders

I guess I shouldn't be surprised by anything anymore
Rongagin71
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AG
I'm gonna guess that you are actually pretty easy to surprise.

Of course that happens to all of us occasionally.
Just today I found out that K. Harris learned her much touted
"American Values" growing up in a rich Canadien subdivision.
AggieRain
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AG
barbacoa taco said:

I know Trump set the bar beneath the earth but you should have higher expectations for your leaders

I guess I shouldn't be surprised by anything anymore


Trump isn't my leader. I don't like him very much. I'm just not as prone to hysterics as some.
Quo Vadis?
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AggieRain said:

barbacoa taco said:

I know Trump set the bar beneath the earth but you should have higher expectations for your leaders

I guess I shouldn't be surprised by anything anymore


Trump isn't my leader. I don't like him very much. I'm just not as prone to hysterics as some.


Everything is Hitler's invasion of Poland to this guys. Not using proper pronouns, saying anything bad about immigrants, using inconvenient facts, repeating articles of Catholic doctrine.
Sapper Redux
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Rongagin71 said:

Sapper Redux said:

PabloSerna said:

You have to dehumanize people in order to treat them with such hostility.


Just like to point out the number of Christians who are being blatantly bigoted in their depiction of Haitian people while trying to lecture me about morals or some such on other threads.
I'd like to point whose country is being invaded and colonized.
Have you heard of self defense?


Self defense from what? Legal immigrants who are doing good, honest work? The horror.
Sapper Redux
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AggieRain said:

barbacoa taco said:

. JD Vance is causing terroristic threats to happen in his own state due to his own racist fearmongering.


Good grief. Get a grip.


Bomb threats forcing elementary schools to close aren't terroristic threats?
 
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