I have a couple of thoughts on this that I hope will be helpful for you. First, as a Catholic I would not receive communion in a church outside of the Catholic Church because I am not in communion with other churches. This includes the Eastern Orthodox even though I believe they are Apostolic and valid in every respect. However, if I attended a Divine Liturgy it would not be right or acceptable for me to receive - and this is mutually understood and expected.

As Catholics, we believe that Jesus is truly present in the Eucharist body, blood, soul, and divinity. We are literally receiving the flesh of our Lord and Savior on our tongues and his blood on our lips. This is not symbolic, but literal. Furthermore, to receive the Eucharist you are accepting all that the Eucharist is and all that the Church (Catholic Church) teaches and professes. Catholics should not receive the Eucharist unless they are in a state of grace free from mortal sin.

Paul warns us not to receive the body and blood unworthily lest we eat and drink damnation upon our souls. This applies to everyone. This is why the Catholic Church restricts the Eucharist to only those who believe fully in what she teaches AND are in "good standing". This is not intended to embarrass or deprive those not able to receive, but rather this is to protect your soul. A side benefit is that it sparks this type of discussion and hopefully leads you to learn more about the teachings of the Church and lead you into full communion with us.

With regard to the salvation of non-Catholic Christians… the Church teaches that salvation comes to us through the Church (which makes sense because we literally receive the flesh Christ bore on the cross in the Eucharist). The sacraments are the "ordinary" means to salvation. This does not exclude non-Catholics (even though you don't receive the Eucharist for example) as each of us must work out our salvation with fear and trembling. I guess I would say the path outside of the church is just a more difficult path. God is sovereign.

As a cradle-Catholic I have come to learn that these conversations can be difficult because sometimes Catholics and Protestants use the same words but those words can have very different meaning and connotations. For example, the idea what one means by "being saved". For us, salvation is a process that takes us a lifetime of conforming our lives to the will of Christ. The Sacraments offer us the graces we need along the journey to our eternal reward, but we know we must continue in the race all the way to the finish. Being "saved" is not and event or a prayer or confession we made in the past but being saved is is past present and future.

Hope that helps in some small way. Happy to dialog with you more.

I think there's probably a pretty big unexplored gap between what "being saved" means in an non-denom evangelical context and a traditional Christian context.

T dizl televizl said:

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Hello friends.

I've been contemplating on posting this topic as I don't want to flare tempers, but it is something that has been on my mind as of late, and was hoping some of our resident Catholics could help me out. My intention is to keep things civil, as best we can.

I was born and raised in a non denominational church. As i got older I was baptized in a baptist church (in my teenage years) and as an adult joined into a Methodist church.

I recently married a catholic woman and have since been attending a lot of events in the Catholic Church (weddings, funerals, etc.)

Non Catholics are not allowed to take part in communion in the Catholic Church. Whenever I am going to attend one of these events, I'm aware that communion will be taking place and try to prepare myself mentally for the fact that I will not be allowed to take part but for whatever reason it always rubs me the wrong way that my choices are to either remain in the pew or go to the front of the church with my arms crossed and receive a blessing instead of taking communion.

I think my frustration centers around if Catholics believe that Protestants for the most part don't go to heaven. I've tried to research online and found that the commonly stated belief is that Jesus has the power to save anyone, including Protestants, but there is never a strongly given statement on if people outside the Catholic Church are in general saved. The general implication as far as I can tell is that they aren't.

My thought process is that Catholics believe (I think) that in order to be saved (for the most part) one must take part of the sacraments of the Catholic Church. Therefore if someone isn't able to take part in these sacraments (ie not take communion) then the probability of being saved and taken is into heaven is low, saving Jesus making an "exception" and calling you home.

Without getting into my personal biases, I'm just hoping our friends here can shine a little light for me on this. It's a difficult exercise for me to think through as I was raised outside the Catholic Church, but would like to understand their beliefs.

Thanks for the help.

---

I guess my first thought is why are you worried about what other denominations are thinking of you? If you are 100% certain in your mind and heart that you are saved and right with God then why is this bothering you? I attend a Wesleyan based church and occasionally will attend a RCC service for other family members and it gives me no heartburn to not be able to participate fully in Communion as I know it's their church and their rules. In fact it's a beautiful/moving time to sit back and witness others taking part in the sacrament…

First, the RCC does not teach that ONLY Catholics are saved. We believe that Jesus founded the church when he entrusted Peter with the keys. So it is a way to heaven that we say, has the fullness of truth because of its foundation.

Second, Holy Communion, means more than just partaking in the sacraments, it is a statement of unity with the rest of the community. We say, "Amen" like "I believe" and all that entails. Pay particular attention to the Creed. That is the basis of our faith.

Third, mass for RCC is communal worship. So going up to the altar is in itself a public statement. I would like to be the first to welcome you to the RCC! Please consider the RCIA (Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults) as a means to learn more.

T dizl televizl said:

---

Hello friends.

I've been contemplating on posting this topic as I don't want to flare tempers, but it is something that has been on my mind as of late, and was hoping some of our resident Catholics could help me out. My intention is to keep things civil, as best we can.

I was born and raised in a non denominational church. As i got older I was baptized in a baptist church (in my teenage years) and as an adult joined into a Methodist church.

I recently married a catholic woman and have since been attending a lot of events in the Catholic Church (weddings, funerals, etc.)

Non Catholics are not allowed to take part in communion in the Catholic Church. Whenever I am going to attend one of these events, I'm aware that communion will be taking place and try to prepare myself mentally for the fact that I will not be allowed to take part but for whatever reason it always rubs me the wrong way that my choices are to either remain in the pew or go to the front of the church with my arms crossed and receive a blessing instead of taking communion.

I think my frustration centers around if Catholics believe that Protestants for the most part don't go to heaven. I've tried to research online and found that the commonly stated belief is that Jesus has the power to save anyone, including Protestants, but there is never a strongly given statement on if people outside the Catholic Church are in general saved. The general implication as far as I can tell is that they aren't.

My thought process is that Catholics believe (I think) that in order to be saved (for the most part) one must take part of the sacraments of the Catholic Church. Therefore if someone isn't able to take part in these sacraments (ie not take communion) then the probability of being saved and taken is into heaven is low, saving Jesus making an "exception" and calling you home.

Without getting into my personal biases, I'm just hoping our friends here can shine a little light for me on this. It's a difficult exercise for me to think through as I was raised outside the Catholic Church, but would like to understand their beliefs.

Thanks for the help.

---

It sounds like you've got some misconceptions about some of this and I was there. I was brought up in the SBC and then was non-denom church goer until I got married to a Catholic girl. It took me years to finally just stop assuming I knew about Catholicism and find out for myself through RCIA and talking both to a priest and my former pastor. I was way way way off on alot. Taking communion in the Catholic Church is partly stating that you believe that the Eucharist is the actual body of Christ (there's more to it but I'd have to go into the substance vs accidents philosophy of how this is true). If you don't believe it is, then by taking it you are being dishonest and disrepectful of the act. And regardless of your church affiliation, God wouldn't like that anyway. Its okay to go up with your arms crossed for a blessing. Its the same reason a non-Christian shouldn't get baptized if they don't believe in Jesus and have faith in him. Just give it time and read some books. There are some great ones by former protestants that became Catholic and they outline all their previos objections and the truth they discovered.

10andBOUNCE said:

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BluHorseShu said:

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T dizl televizl said:

---

Hello friends.

I've been contemplating on posting this topic as I don't want to flare tempers, but it is something that has been on my mind as of late, and was hoping some of our resident Catholics could help me out. My intention is to keep things civil, as best we can.

I was born and raised in a non denominational church. As i got older I was baptized in a baptist church (in my teenage years) and as an adult joined into a Methodist church.

I recently married a catholic woman and have since been attending a lot of events in the Catholic Church (weddings, funerals, etc.)

Non Catholics are not allowed to take part in communion in the Catholic Church. Whenever I am going to attend one of these events, I'm aware that communion will be taking place and try to prepare myself mentally for the fact that I will not be allowed to take part but for whatever reason it always rubs me the wrong way that my choices are to either remain in the pew or go to the front of the church with my arms crossed and receive a blessing instead of taking communion.

I think my frustration centers around if Catholics believe that Protestants for the most part don't go to heaven. I've tried to research online and found that the commonly stated belief is that Jesus has the power to save anyone, including Protestants, but there is never a strongly given statement on if people outside the Catholic Church are in general saved. The general implication as far as I can tell is that they aren't.

My thought process is that Catholics believe (I think) that in order to be saved (for the most part) one must take part of the sacraments of the Catholic Church. Therefore if someone isn't able to take part in these sacraments (ie not take communion) then the probability of being saved and taken is into heaven is low, saving Jesus making an "exception" and calling you home.

Without getting into my personal biases, I'm just hoping our friends here can shine a little light for me on this. It's a difficult exercise for me to think through as I was raised outside the Catholic Church, but would like to understand their beliefs.

Thanks for the help.

---

Taking communion in the Catholic Church is partly stating that you believe that the Eucharist is the actual body of Christ

---

So, can you explain this to my protestant brain? I have heard this before, but never dug into it, so I apologize in advance for my extreme ignorance. What does this even mean? I am genuinely curious. You walk up and take the wine and bread, but they aren't actually wine and bread?

---

At one word God brought everything into existence.
Jesus commanded water to turn into wine.
Even Satan tempted him to turn a stone into bread.
The creator of all matter and substance can transform anything into anything that he wishes.
When he took the bread and the cup he said this IS my body and this IS my blood we believed him, also that is what the Apostles and all of their successors taught he meant. The mystery of remaining under the appearance of bread and wine is honestly a mercy, but if you look up Eucharistic miracles sometimes the veil is lifted.

Thanks for the thoughtful response. I like the way you explained it and that certainly helps me to understand it better.

I think it is easy for people (me) to feel almost rejected or shunned during the moment but usually once I think about it after the fact it's no big deal. Just a different experience as most of the churches I have attended throughout my life have an "open table" concept for communion. Your explanation will give me a different, more positive way of thinking about it next time I'm in the situation.

I have a lot of respect for the catholic faith despite not quite understanding all of it.

Thanks again for your response.

I don't think Catholics think Protestants are going to hell merely for being Protestant / not being Catholic. Or at least I know that is not the teaching of the RCC. Some people may believe that, but you also have baptists that believe the same about Catholics.

T dizl televizl said:

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I'm not worried about it from an insecurity standpoint of if I'm saved or not. I think a big part of it is curiosity and wanting to understand what Catholics believe. Especially considering I just married into a family of Catholics.

Another part is trying to wrap my head around my previous thought that Catholics think Protestants go to hell. Just googling numbers it says there are around 1 billion Protestants in the world. That's a pretty big number of people who probably think they're doing the right thing religion wise, so it would be hard for me to reconcile if Catholics think they are all going to hell for practicing a different version of Christianity.

I do like the thought of viewing catholic communion as an opportunity to sit back and observe a beautiful sacrament. Will probably do that in the future instead of going up with my arms crossed.

---

Congratulations on your marriage! May God bless you both!

10andBOUNCE said:

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jrico2727 said:

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10andBOUNCE said:

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jrico2727 said:

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10andBOUNCE said:

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BluHorseShu said:

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T dizl televizl said:

---

Hello friends.

I've been contemplating on posting this topic as I don't want to flare tempers, but it is something that has been on my mind as of late, and was hoping some of our resident Catholics could help me out. My intention is to keep things civil, as best we can.

I was born and raised in a non denominational church. As i got older I was baptized in a baptist church (in my teenage years) and as an adult joined into a Methodist church.

I recently married a catholic woman and have since been attending a lot of events in the Catholic Church (weddings, funerals, etc.)

Non Catholics are not allowed to take part in communion in the Catholic Church. Whenever I am going to attend one of these events, I'm aware that communion will be taking place and try to prepare myself mentally for the fact that I will not be allowed to take part but for whatever reason it always rubs me the wrong way that my choices are to either remain in the pew or go to the front of the church with my arms crossed and receive a blessing instead of taking communion.

I think my frustration centers around if Catholics believe that Protestants for the most part don't go to heaven. I've tried to research online and found that the commonly stated belief is that Jesus has the power to save anyone, including Protestants, but there is never a strongly given statement on if people outside the Catholic Church are in general saved. The general implication as far as I can tell is that they aren't.

My thought process is that Catholics believe (I think) that in order to be saved (for the most part) one must take part of the sacraments of the Catholic Church. Therefore if someone isn't able to take part in these sacraments (ie not take communion) then the probability of being saved and taken is into heaven is low, saving Jesus making an "exception" and calling you home.

Without getting into my personal biases, I'm just hoping our friends here can shine a little light for me on this. It's a difficult exercise for me to think through as I was raised outside the Catholic Church, but would like to understand their beliefs.

Thanks for the help.

---

Taking communion in the Catholic Church is partly stating that you believe that the Eucharist is the actual body of Christ

---

So, can you explain this to my protestant brain? I have heard this before, but never dug into it, so I apologize in advance for my extreme ignorance. What does this even mean? I am genuinely curious. You walk up and take the wine and bread, but they aren't actually wine and bread?

---

At one word God brought everything into existence.
Jesus commanded water to turn into wine.
Even Satan tempted him to turn a stone into bread.
The creator of all matter and substance can transform anything into anything that he wishes.
When he took the bread and the cup he said this IS my body and this IS my blood we believed him, also that is what the Apostles and all of their successors taught he meant. The mystery of remaining under the appearance of bread and wine is honestly a mercy, but if you look up Eucharistic miracles sometimes the veil is lifted.

---

Appreciate the feedback. I agree with your first few thoughts - God does speak things into existence and Jesus did in fact turn that water into wine at Cana. I'll have to disagree with the rest. I can definitely understand why OP would interpret that the taking of the Eucharist is essential for eternal life, since John 6:51 and 6:54 both plainly state. I'm not sure how you explain that away.

---

I don't explain that away. Our Lord clearly states unless you eat his body or drink his blood you do not have life, in fact eternal life, within you.

---

So just to be clear, in your judgement and interpretation based on the dual authority of scripture and church tradition, because I have not taken of the holy catholic communion, I am likely not saved and will be separated from God for eternity?

---

The Catholic belief is that you are responsible for what you truly understand. If you had that view in the 1500s, you'd likely be in trouble. 500 years later and all of the differing denominations muddying the waters would put you much, much less at fault for holding that view.

Now if you do the deep dive and realize that the historical church all believed this and the oldest faiths (Catholicism, EO, Lutherans, Anglicans) all believe is some form of real presence, but maintained that it has to be symbolic based on your personal understanding, I'd say you may be in trouble. Ultimately the Catholic Church teaches we know of no other way to salvation than the path we've laid out, but God can do whatever He likes so we can not say definitively what happens to those outside the Church.

10andBOUNCE said:

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jrico2727 said:

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10andBOUNCE said:

---

jrico2727 said:

---

10andBOUNCE said:

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BluHorseShu said:

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T dizl televizl said:

---

Hello friends.

I've been contemplating on posting this topic as I don't want to flare tempers, but it is something that has been on my mind as of late, and was hoping some of our resident Catholics could help me out. My intention is to keep things civil, as best we can.

I was born and raised in a non denominational church. As i got older I was baptized in a baptist church (in my teenage years) and as an adult joined into a Methodist church.

I recently married a catholic woman and have since been attending a lot of events in the Catholic Church (weddings, funerals, etc.)

Non Catholics are not allowed to take part in communion in the Catholic Church. Whenever I am going to attend one of these events, I'm aware that communion will be taking place and try to prepare myself mentally for the fact that I will not be allowed to take part but for whatever reason it always rubs me the wrong way that my choices are to either remain in the pew or go to the front of the church with my arms crossed and receive a blessing instead of taking communion.

I think my frustration centers around if Catholics believe that Protestants for the most part don't go to heaven. I've tried to research online and found that the commonly stated belief is that Jesus has the power to save anyone, including Protestants, but there is never a strongly given statement on if people outside the Catholic Church are in general saved. The general implication as far as I can tell is that they aren't.

My thought process is that Catholics believe (I think) that in order to be saved (for the most part) one must take part of the sacraments of the Catholic Church. Therefore if someone isn't able to take part in these sacraments (ie not take communion) then the probability of being saved and taken is into heaven is low, saving Jesus making an "exception" and calling you home.

Without getting into my personal biases, I'm just hoping our friends here can shine a little light for me on this. It's a difficult exercise for me to think through as I was raised outside the Catholic Church, but would like to understand their beliefs.

Thanks for the help.

---

Taking communion in the Catholic Church is partly stating that you believe that the Eucharist is the actual body of Christ

---

So, can you explain this to my protestant brain? I have heard this before, but never dug into it, so I apologize in advance for my extreme ignorance. What does this even mean? I am genuinely curious. You walk up and take the wine and bread, but they aren't actually wine and bread?

---

At one word God brought everything into existence.
Jesus commanded water to turn into wine.
Even Satan tempted him to turn a stone into bread.
The creator of all matter and substance can transform anything into anything that he wishes.
When he took the bread and the cup he said this IS my body and this IS my blood we believed him, also that is what the Apostles and all of their successors taught he meant. The mystery of remaining under the appearance of bread and wine is honestly a mercy, but if you look up Eucharistic miracles sometimes the veil is lifted.

---

Appreciate the feedback. I agree with your first few thoughts - God does speak things into existence and Jesus did in fact turn that water into wine at Cana. I'll have to disagree with the rest. I can definitely understand why OP would interpret that the taking of the Eucharist is essential for eternal life, since John 6:51 and 6:54 both plainly state. I'm not sure how you explain that away.

---

I don't explain that away. Our Lord clearly states unless you eat his body or drink his blood you do not have life, in fact eternal life, within you.

---

So just to be clear, in your judgement and interpretation based on the dual authority of scripture and church tradition, because I have not taken of the holy catholic communion, I am likely not saved and will be separated from God for eternity?

---

No. First I would say I believe that the Orthodox and other Apostolic churches not in communion with Rome have true sacraments including the Eucharist.
Secondly due to our broken nature, growing up with our own prejudices and different formations we all come to different conclusions. I would say God is a God of mercy. The Holy Spirit is what enlightens our hearts and minds. So it would be condemnable for me to leave and brake communion with the Church. For other's it is not my place to judge, God will judge us all on how faithful we were to his commands. The Church hands down what was given to her by Our Lord and his Apostles. All we can do is say this is what we have been commanded, how others choose to respond is between them and the Lord, and we are all in need of his Mercy. So I believe that you are of good will and are doing what you believe is best, while I do not agree with you I do not have any enmity with you and don't believe you have any with me. All we can do is pray that God will lead us in truth and eventually he will guide all of us to reconcile in him.

Thanks to both of you for the further clarification.

This is a great discussion. Thanks to all.

Zobel said:

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I understand. But what does "being saved" actually mean? What does "being right before God" mean?

There are timing differences in theology as well as the actual content of salvation. For example, for the Orthodox theosis has an identity relationship with salvation. That's what salvation is.

---

To add to this, it's not only a question of what we are saved "from", but what we are saved "for." Yes, salvation was and is about being saved from our sins and the soul-destroying impact of sin, but it also was and is about saving us FOR communion with God, which is why we were created in the first place.

My subjective experience of discussing salvation with Protestants is that they have a very "saved from sin"-centric understanding of salvation, largely ignoring the "saved for" aspect.

10andBOUNCE said:

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jrico2727 said:

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10andBOUNCE said:

---

jrico2727 said:

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10andBOUNCE said:

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BluHorseShu said:

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T dizl televizl said:

---

Hello friends.

I've been contemplating on posting this topic as I don't want to flare tempers, but it is something that has been on my mind as of late, and was hoping some of our resident Catholics could help me out. My intention is to keep things civil, as best we can.

I was born and raised in a non denominational church. As i got older I was baptized in a baptist church (in my teenage years) and as an adult joined into a Methodist church.

I recently married a catholic woman and have since been attending a lot of events in the Catholic Church (weddings, funerals, etc.)

Non Catholics are not allowed to take part in communion in the Catholic Church. Whenever I am going to attend one of these events, I'm aware that communion will be taking place and try to prepare myself mentally for the fact that I will not be allowed to take part but for whatever reason it always rubs me the wrong way that my choices are to either remain in the pew or go to the front of the church with my arms crossed and receive a blessing instead of taking communion.

I think my frustration centers around if Catholics believe that Protestants for the most part don't go to heaven. I've tried to research online and found that the commonly stated belief is that Jesus has the power to save anyone, including Protestants, but there is never a strongly given statement on if people outside the Catholic Church are in general saved. The general implication as far as I can tell is that they aren't.

My thought process is that Catholics believe (I think) that in order to be saved (for the most part) one must take part of the sacraments of the Catholic Church. Therefore if someone isn't able to take part in these sacraments (ie not take communion) then the probability of being saved and taken is into heaven is low, saving Jesus making an "exception" and calling you home.

Without getting into my personal biases, I'm just hoping our friends here can shine a little light for me on this. It's a difficult exercise for me to think through as I was raised outside the Catholic Church, but would like to understand their beliefs.

Thanks for the help.

---

Taking communion in the Catholic Church is partly stating that you believe that the Eucharist is the actual body of Christ

---

So, can you explain this to my protestant brain? I have heard this before, but never dug into it, so I apologize in advance for my extreme ignorance. What does this even mean? I am genuinely curious. You walk up and take the wine and bread, but they aren't actually wine and bread?

---

At one word God brought everything into existence.
Jesus commanded water to turn into wine.
Even Satan tempted him to turn a stone into bread.
The creator of all matter and substance can transform anything into anything that he wishes.
When he took the bread and the cup he said this IS my body and this IS my blood we believed him, also that is what the Apostles and all of their successors taught he meant. The mystery of remaining under the appearance of bread and wine is honestly a mercy, but if you look up Eucharistic miracles sometimes the veil is lifted.

---

Appreciate the feedback. I agree with your first few thoughts - God does speak things into existence and Jesus did in fact turn that water into wine at Cana. I'll have to disagree with the rest. I can definitely understand why OP would interpret that the taking of the Eucharist is essential for eternal life, since John 6:51 and 6:54 both plainly state. I'm not sure how you explain that away.

---

I don't explain that away. Our Lord clearly states unless you eat his body or drink his blood you do not have life, in fact eternal life, within you.

---

So just to be clear, in your judgement and interpretation based on the dual authority of scripture and church tradition, because I have not taken of the holy catholic communion, I am likely not saved and will be separated from God for eternity?

---

I think it was said above, but at the risk of being repetitive, the sacraments are the ordinary means of God imparting grace to us. They are not the exclusive means by which God imparts grace to us.

Roman Catholics and those churches in communion with the Bishop of Rome consider baptism as the means by which we are made part of the mystical body of Christ and adopted into the family of God, The Eucharist is the source and summit of the Catholic faith. When we receive it worthily (which means by God's grace we receive it NOT being in a state of mortal sin) it is a source of divine life for us and it also acts to forgive us of those non-mortal sins from whicn we repent. The reception of the consecrated bread and wine is always preceded by the penetential rite in the liturgy so that the faithful can "get right" with God before presenting themselves to receive the body, blood, soul and divinity of our risen Lord.

The sacrament of reconcilliation is the one that offers the faithful the best of example of an "ordinary" means of receiving the grace of a sacrament, IMHO. The church teaches that one can be forgiven of a mortal sin (1) by an act of perfect contrition or (2) by repenting of the sin, confessing it to a priest and receiving absolution. The challenge of the first option is how can you know if your act of contrition is perfect? The sacrament offers the penitent a clear, objective means of knowing that one's sin is forgiven when repented of, confessed and absolved in the confessional. It doesn't matter if you feel it or if you don't perfectly describe it and detach from it. Jesus Christ empowered his apostles, who empowered their successors to forgive sins, which is something only God can do. When a priest ordained by a successor of the apostles (a Bishop) says the prayer of absolution over you after your confession, YOU ARE FORGIVEN. Period. You can walk out of the confessional knowing with moral certainty that if you confessed all the mortal sins you remember, you are forgiven.

Similarly, when you present yourself to receive the Blessed Sacrament in a state of grace (no mortal sin) you can be sure you are receiving the Real Presence, Jesus himself, the bread of life, just as he commanded you to do.

"Closed communion" is closed to anyone not in a state of grace, Catholic or otherwise, and anyone who does not believe what the church has magisterially taught about the Eucharist. So, if you don't believe that the consecrated bread and wine is the Real Presence, why would you WANT to receive it? Or, if you do believe it, why aren't you Catholic?