PabloSerna said:

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They are not insults. You have taken them that way. Think about it.

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At least two people have taken them as insults.

Think about it.

PabloSerna said:

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Is it insulting to warn someone when they are about to step off a cliff? He is the head shepherd of over a billion people. I took it as I have laid out from the beginning that this is more about getting on the same page.

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What cliff? Where? To a group of the faithful that, in large part, try to cling to the Rock our Blessed Lord named/established?

Father: Son, don't play in the street.
Son: Yes, father.
Father: Don't play in the street, son.
Son: Yes, father, I know.
Father: Don't play in the street.
Son: Dad, I know the traffic laws and the dangers associated with playing in the road.
Father: Son, playing in the street is dangerous.
Son: Absolutely, dad. I have internalized this. Moreover, I'm actively teaching my own children this.
Father: Son, you're dangerously close to the street and you shouldn't play there.
Son: Dad... I'm in the yard. I don't like playing in the street. It's not part of the game. Being on the grass is way better.
Father: Son, don't play in the street... You could be killed.
Son: Dad, have you been listening to me? Do you even know what I'm about?

And on and on it goes. It's become so tiresome.

747Ag said:

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PabloSerna said:

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Is it insulting to warn someone when they are about to step off a cliff? He is the head shepherd of over a billion people. I took it as I have laid out from the beginning that this is more about getting on the same page.

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What cliff? Where? To a group of the faithful that, in large part, try to cling to the Rock our Blessed Lord named/established?

Father: Son, don't play in the street.
Son: Yes, father.
Father: Don't play in the street, son.
Son: Yes, father, I know.
Father: Don't play in the street.
Son: Dad, I know the traffic laws and the dangers associated with playing in the road.
Father: Son, playing in the street is dangerous.
Son: Absolutely, dad. I have internalized this. Moreover, I'm actively teaching my own children this.
Father: Son, you're dangerously close to the street and you shouldn't play there.
Son: Dad... I'm in the yard. I don't like playing in the street. It's not part of the game. Being on the grass is way better.
Father: Son, don't play in the street... You could be killed.
Son: Dad, have you been listening to me? Do you even know what I'm about?
And on and on it goes. It's become so tiresome.

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You forgot about the mission on the sidewalk

Happy 4th everyone!

PabloSerna said:

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Something to note (Homily, Feast of Sts. Peter and Paul, 6/29/24):

The journey of the Apostle Paul is also, primarily, a passover experience. First, he is changed by his encounter with the Risen Lord on the road to Damascus and then, fervently contemplating the crucified Christ, discovers the grace of weakness. When we are weak, he tells us, it is then that we are strong, because we no longer rely on ourselves, but on Christ (cf. 2 Cor 12:10). Seized by the Lord and crucified with him, Paul can write, "It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me" (Gal 2:20). Yet this does not lead to a consoling, inward-looking religiosity like that found in a few movements in the Church today on the contrary, the encounter with the Lord ignites in the life of Paul a burning zeal for evangelization. As we heard in the second reading, at the end of his life, he could say: "The Lord stood by me and gave me strength to proclaim the message fully, that all the Gentiles might hear it" (2 Tim 4:17).

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It is hard for me to read this excerpt without a bad taste in my mouth. Am I supposed to believe our wonderful cloistered monks and nuns, praying for all of mankind day in and day out are somehow choosing an inferior path? Hesychasm, adoration, the rosary, the examination of conscience, reconciliation, liturgy of the hours, ALL of these vitamins so crucial to sanctifying our lives, are hand waved away as a "consoling-inward looking religiosity"?

I also have an idea that the type of evangelization he's promoting, isn't the John the Baptist voice in the wilderness style beseeching repentance and conversion, but rather the Fr James Martin "look at my 'icon' of a rainbow bedecked Mary wearing a hijab" style.

PabloSerna said:

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You should read about Archbishop Vigano's seminary he was establishing before thinking this statement is about SSPX. At least you can say you are in communion with Rome even if irregular.

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Now that Archbishop Vigano is outside of the church I look forward to Pope Francis' "todos todos todos" campaign to accompany him pastorally back into the bosom of the Church. The late great Cdl Thuc was excommunicated and rehabilitated twice, it is beyond no one.

PabloSerna said:

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Vigano was out to become the next Lefebvre (1973) and while we tend to think everything is about the US Catholic Church, it may be that his warning (I still don't see the insult) may have been directed at the Vigano types that want to march to their own beat.

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The only place where Archbishop Vigano could be another Archbishop Lefebvre is in his head. Abp Vigano is an absolute egoist with a messiah complex who happens to hit the target every now and again because he sprays so far and wide. He lost his mind during the Trump administration when he somehow thought the faithful needed commentary on Q-Anon, the dominion servers used in the 2020 election, and correspondence with Trump from the titular Archbishop of Ulpiana (yes I know he used to be Ambassador to the USA).

I believe Archbishop Lefebvre will be canonized one day, and is one of the most humble figures of our modern Church. I hope Archbishop Vigano can humble himself and refrain from his explosive self-serving outbursts and be an actual respectable voice for traditionalism.

Serviam said:

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PabloSerna said:

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Vigano was out to become the next Lefebvre (1973) and while we tend to think everything is about the US Catholic Church, it may be that his warning (I still don't see the insult) may have been directed at the Vigano types that want to march to their own beat.

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The only place where Archbishop Vigano could be another Archbishop Lefebvre is in his head. Abp Vigano is an absolute egoist with a messiah complex who happens to hit the target every now and again because he sprays so far and wide. He lost his mind during the Trump administration when he somehow thought the faithful needed commentary on Q-Anon, the dominion servers used in the 2020 election, and correspondence with Trump from the titular Archbishop of Ulpiana (yes I know he used to be Ambassador to the USA).

I believe Archbishop Lefebvre will be canonized one day, and is one of the most humble figures of our modern Church. I hope Archbishop Vigano can humble himself and refrain from his explosive self-serving outbursts and be an actual respectable voice for traditionalism.

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jrico2727 said:

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*Ecumenism*

747Ag said:

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jrico2727 said:

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*Ecumenism*

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Excellent article by Bishop Marian Elgeti of Switzerland.

https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/swiss-bishop-eleganti-vatican-ii-contains-ambiguity-young-catholics-love-the-latin-mass/

Quote:

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Personally, I do make a distinction between Vatican I, which presented an infallible dogmatization, and Vatican II, which avowedly wanted to be (only) a pastoral council. It is understandable that it wanted to incorporate the top statements of Vatican I into the collegiality of the bishops in order to achieve a certain balance in the relationship between the pope and bishops. This does not mean that one could or can cut back on the content of the First Vatican Council.

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Quote:

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However, even in my youth I noticed that many passages of Vatican II are open to interpretation and have a very strong character of compromise or a certain ambiguity, which bothered me even then. I was a 20-year-old novice. As an altar boy, I experienced how brutally and excessively a liturgical reform was enforced that was neither intended by the Council Fathers nor can be inferred from the texts.

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Great commentary on the amorphous nature of Vatican ii and the failed experiment of ecumenism when we don't hardly have any overlap of belief structure.