one MEEN Ag said:

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Tangentially, we've used technology to increase our wealth and at the same rate reduced our reliance on God.

I think there is some symbolic irony that the night sky during the ancient world would be overwhelmingly filled with stars and could see the milky way. And as we've built our own lights (both physically and metaphorically) we've drowned out all but the brightest lights of the heavenly hosts above us. And now, we don't even really look up at the sky unless we know we can see the stars.

I know I can't be the first person to make this remark, but someone forward this to Jonathan Pageau's suggestion box.

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A lot of truth in your post. We don't allow ourselves to be confronted with the wonder and majesty of God. If we did, I do believe our souls would more often cry out for the almighty.

one MEEN Ag said:

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Tangentially, we've used technology to increase our wealth and at the same rate reduced our reliance on God.

I think there is some symbolic irony that the night sky during the ancient world would be overwhelmingly filled with stars and could see the milky way. And as we've built our own lights (both physically and metaphorically) we've drowned out all but the brightest lights of the heavenly hosts above us. And now, we don't even really look up at the sky unless we know we can see the stars.

I know I can't be the first person to make this remark, but someone forward this to Jonathan Pageau's suggestion box.

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I've always believed the further we get from man-made things, the easier it is to see God's majesty. On top of a mountain looking out at a vastness of nothing, I feel closer to God than I do driving around the concrete city of Houston. We as people go and marvel at the empire state building, but the most impressive thing on Manhattan Island is central Park, which is just recreating what God naturally created

If money is a curse, then may the Lord smite me with it! And may I never recover!

/Tevia

Another good message from my last church on this was the lake and river metaphor. When God rains riches on you, are you a river or a lake? Is that money passing through you to do God's work? Or are you holding all of it and occasionally letting some of it dribble out every so often?

When God blesses you with wealth, what do you do with it? IMHO, that's the real question. Do you save all of it up where it doesn't do anyone any good while being stingy and miserly? Do you keep all of it for yourself and never use it to help anyone else? Or do you let that wealth flow from God to you and then to whoever needs it?

Amen Ramblin' Ag...

Luke 6:30 Give to every one who begs from you; and of him who takes away your goods do not ask them again.

ramblin_ag02 said:

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Another good message from my last church on this was the lake and river metaphor. When God rains riches on you, are you a river or a lake? Is that money passing through you to do God's work? Or are you holding all of it and occasionally letting some of it dribble out every so often?

When God blesses you with wealth, what do you do with it? IMHO, that's the real question. Do you save all of it up where it doesn't do anyone any good while being stingy and miserly? Do you keep all of it for yourself and never use it to help anyone else? Or do you let that wealth flow from God to you and then to whoever needs it?

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Yes...testify !

No mention of 1 Timothy 5:8 yet. In reading the first part of Chapter 5, it's obvious to me a man's first provisional responsibility is to his relatives and particularly to his immediate family.

As someone who had two parents with Alzheimer's, a sibling and other relatives with special needs, and the possibility of my children or my grandchildren or my cousins' lives being changed instantly with an illness or in a car wreck or other accident, I reject people telling me how much of my money to send elsewhere. Cut the checks for 5-10 years of memory care, assisted living, and other things insurance and Medicare don't cover, add it up, then get back to me. Or have your son in law get into a car accident unable to work and support your daughter and grandkids, which thankfully hasn't happened but for which I'm prepared.

Maybe a good plan is to give some of the earnings from your principal to others in need, while continuing to build the principal as needs for you own family grow in breadth and depth. I won't tell you what, if anything, I do for others, Matthew 6 gives me several instructions for remaining silent.

One thing I know for sure, 80-90% of the people in this country have no clue how to adequately manage their money, not because they're dumb but because they refuse to make it a priority. Many think "rich" people all pursue whimsical pleasures first instead of contemplating the above. I will certainly not seek or heed their "advice".

"Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever." - 1 Timothy 5:8.

Lets take a step back here. We're not talking about someone who is so greedy with their money that they won't even help out or support their own family. Yes, as a husband and father you have financial obligations to support your family and share in the financial blessings you receive. Nobody would say abandoning family to become a penniless, ascetic monk is a good thing to do. And proverbs has plenty to say how its generally good for man to plan for his future, to invest his money soundly, and to see it grow and share in the blessings.

So yes, you thinking in terms of financial planning to protect your family from calamity is all around a good thing. But for Christians, we claim that all of it belongs to God, and that we should be generous with our profits and give it back to God so others can share in the blessings. Generally this is accepted as 10% because that is what Abraham gave Melchizedek.

Storing up wealth to aid in dying is an interesting dynamic. We're all going to die, and suffering on this earth is to guide us for salvation. How much money do we (as americans honestly) really need to move the needle off of 'early death and worst outcomes' compared to 'extended life and best outcomes?' At some point, if funding all of these liabilities fully needs to happen before anyone starts tithing- its never going to happen.

Part of the tithing is acting first out of faithfulness to God anyway. Look at the sacrifice of first fruits. That the first fruits were all taken and given to God - before the rest of the harvest even came in.

If anybody here believes that being rich is harmful to your eternal soul, I'll gladly take your excess money off your hands for you.

The trick is for you to own the money, and not the money own you...