Zobel we clashed in the past, but I've come around. So any argument I had with you in the past, I apologize.

You're a good! I totally agree. Very smart analysis on the oil interest.

I've always just hated the war profiteering, and getting us involved in wars that beget more wars and create for enemies in the ME. I never looked at from the perspective that it is no longer in our interest to control the oil. I always saw that the oil angle as an evil, but shrewd move.

No matter which way I look at it, I cannot see the benefit from interventionist policies.

All good

And now a message from the Christian Zionist wing

I believe he might be referring to scripture here:

Gen 12:3 I think?

swimmerbabe11 said:

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I think by definition if you aren't a Christian then you are a heretic

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So by definition if you aren't a Jew you're a heretic? Or a Hindu? Or a Muslim? Heretic traditionally refers to people who identify as a particular faith while not holding doctrinal views. So Mormonism is a heretical Christian tradition but it's outside other faith traditions.

codker92 said:

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NowhereMan said:

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Shapiro during the Q&A expressed his heretical view of Jesus, then had no tolerance for Candace.
He's a hot head.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/conservative-pundit-candace-owens-right-wing-media-outlet-daily-wire-c-rcna144640

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#Inquisition thread. Since you are so orthodox why don't you pick up your saber and join the crusade against Iran?

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The Orthodox don't Crusade. There is no "Army of God" in the Christian faith. No go straight to heaven card for killing infidels.

bigtruckguy3500 said:

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DeProfundis said:

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And now a message from the Christian Zionist wing

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I think the people pushing for war are rarely the people that have something to lose. I'm surprised at how war hungry we are as a country. I think people rarely think of the long term consequences and just get caught up in patriotic fervor (or sometimes religious).

Just think about all our wars. Beyond the number KIA in the war on terror, we've spent $8 trillion dollars. About 1/4 of our current national debt was on the past 20 years of war. 100's of thousands of veterans with disabilities, PTSD, and 8,000 yearly suicides of veterans (many are pre-war on terror). Not to mention the number of broken marriages as service members are deployed again and again. Service members that cheat while deployed, and their spouses that cheat while home.

It's easy to say you support the troops, or thank someone for their service, throw a little parade on veteran's day. But a smaller and smaller chunk of America really understands what it means to serve. What it means to send your spouse, son, daughter, or parent out to sea, or out to some foreign land for 6 months, or 9 months. Or what it feels like to come back to a child that doesn't know who you are.

I get it. War is sometimes necessary. And war has been around forever, and will be around forever. But the older I've gotten, the more I'm convinced that if there was less of a profit to be made in war, the less there would be. The more we'd be pushing other countries to make peace, instead of looking to finance their wars (which is essentially a jobs program for constituents and a profit boost for the military industrial complex).

I'm ready to go to war whenever my country needs me to. But sometimes I just wonder, "why?"

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Good post.

I have two men close to me that are/were veterans. My FIL is a V Vet and he is incredibly disillusioned by the variety of 'patriotism' alive today that is so disconnected from what it really means to go to war. Part of it is that we have a fully volunteer military so it gives the vast majority of the population the luxury to keep all of it at arms distance and not be affected by it personally.

My grandfather was a WW2 vet. Obviously, there were diff circumstances than Vietnam, but he had a similar attitude about war and his time in the Army. He was not overly patriotic and he had to be reminded, at times, to take his hat off for the national anthem.

I think a big part of it is that we, as a country, felt guilty about how we treated our V Vets coming home, and rightly so. No matter how awful the war was and ultimately unecessary, it wasn't the fault of those men that served, but they carried a heavy burden. So, we decided as a country that we were going to treat our guys coming home for Desert Storm and everything moving forward as returning heroes. I think we went overboard, a bit and for a couple of decades now we have almost deified our military and service members, and that's not healthy either. And make no mistake, those that profit from war have noticed how public sentiment has shifted and they have used that.

Another interesting development is the broification (I think I just made up a word) that some guys can't let go of their military service and can't separate civilian life and military life. Those guys in the past wanted to come home and put that stuff behind them and not think about it anymore, if they could. Now, there's this weird phenomenon of perpetual 'army guy' - at the gym, at church, my militiarized truck, etc.

Sapper Redux said:

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They're non-believers. That's different than what is meant by a heresy. You're essentially making the word meaningless by saying everyone is a heretic to everyone else.

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not really, an atheist shouldn't care if they say Christ was just another dude in sandals and a dress and I respond by saying "that is a heretical way of talking about our Savior" The statement was heretical regardless of who delivered it.

The atheist knows they are out of line with my beliefs. Mormons and Jehovahs witness claim Christianity, but have heretical christology. I see no difference in the level of heresy between the two...the only difference is that the atheist doesn't want to be called a Christian and the Mormon does.

But heresy doesn't really mean anything without an orthodoxy. A nonbeliever in your faith doesn't recognize the orthodoxy nor any other truth in the theology. There's no claim to a title that the orthodoxy challenges. You could use the term 'heresy' in a vernacular way to mean "something I disagree with," but it robs the term of any real strength or meaning. Saying a Jew is a heretic because they don't believe Jesus is the messiah is a meaningless label. Of course a Jew doesn't believe Jesus is the messiah. That's axiomatic.