Slaughtering the Red Heifer in Jerusalem/ Rebuild the Temple
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Last: 6 mo ago by whatthehey78
In His time.
I don't get all the obsession over prophecy, and end times. It will come when God wills. Man cannot stop it, and man cannot create it. My take is this is probably a nothingburger. I say that knowing I could be wrong, so I won't make any predictions beyond that, and humbly submit that making predictions is just a way to lose credibility if you are wrong. When people say they know for sure, I pretty well assume that because of the verse I posted above in Mark, that they are probably wrong.
So why worry about anything other than being right with God at all times? Do this, and you don't have to worry about when judgment day is.
My understanding is that since the Church is new spiritual Israel, that God doesn't need a new temple, nor has he asked us to build one in the Bible.
It seems strange to me that Christians would try to help Jews usher in their fake messiah/anti Christ, when Christ already came.Quote:
Mk 13:32 But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
I don't get all the obsession over prophecy, and end times. It will come when God wills. Man cannot stop it, and man cannot create it. My take is this is probably a nothingburger. I say that knowing I could be wrong, so I won't make any predictions beyond that, and humbly submit that making predictions is just a way to lose credibility if you are wrong. When people say they know for sure, I pretty well assume that because of the verse I posted above in Mark, that they are probably wrong.
So why worry about anything other than being right with God at all times? Do this, and you don't have to worry about when judgment day is.
My understanding is that since the Church is new spiritual Israel, that God doesn't need a new temple, nor has he asked us to build one in the Bible.
The cows were sent from Glen Rose, Texas by Brian Stinson last July
Here's his take on all this
https://www.byronstinson.me/a-christian-response-to-building-the-third-temple-of-god
Here's his take on all this
https://www.byronstinson.me/a-christian-response-to-building-the-third-temple-of-god
AMEN! We aren't going back to animal sacrifices, because then the one-time sacrifice of Jesus Christ was somehow not good enough!Quote:
So why worry about anything other than being right with God at all times? Do this, and you don't have to worry about when judgment day is.
My understanding is that since the Church is new spiritual Israel, that God doesn't need a new temple, nor has he asked us to build one in the Bible.
The Scofield Bible has wrought such terrible effects on evangelicalism and our nation by extension
?????DeProfundis said:
The Scofield Bible has wrought such terrible effects on evangelicalism and our nation by extension
Jabin said:?????DeProfundis said:
The Scofield Bible has wrought such terrible effects on evangelicalism and our nation by extension
The Scofield Bible was a version that came out at the beginning of the 20th century, that promoted dispensationalism and Christian Zionism. It is why evangelicals today are so pro-Israel.
I am very familiar with the Scofield Bible. I'm just wondering about your random injection of it in this thread about red heifers.
Does the Scofield Bible have much to say about red heifers and how they tie into dispensationalism?
Does the Scofield Bible have much to say about red heifers and how they tie into dispensationalism?
Jabin said:
I am very familiar with the Scofield Bible. I'm just wondering about your random injection of it in this thread about red heifers.
Does the Scofield Bible have much to say about red heifers and how they tie into dispensationalism?
Not about red heifers no, I'm more speaking about the nonsense spouted by the dude who helped them find the heifer
So you just took a random opportunity to jump on and blast the Scofield?
Jabin said:
So you just took a random opportunity to jump on and blast the Scofield?
Go read the nonsense in the long winded diatribe posted at the link above by Captain Pablo, it is straight out of Scofield's commentary
Some of it may, but I don't remember seeing much at all about red heifers anywhere in Scofield.
I'm certainly no expert on Scofield bibles, but doesn't it have a lot of explanatory footnotes from John Nelson Darby outlining Christian Zionism?
I always found CZ disturbing, since in Matthew 21:43 Jesus took the Kingdom away from the Jews and Israel, and in Matthew 16:19, Jesus then gave the Keys to His Kingdom to the Church...
I always found CZ disturbing, since in Matthew 21:43 Jesus took the Kingdom away from the Jews and Israel, and in Matthew 16:19, Jesus then gave the Keys to His Kingdom to the Church...
In the USA Dispensationalism is being overtaken by Covenant Theology.
I am a slave of Christ
DeProfundis said:Jabin said:
So you just took a random opportunity to jump on and blast the Scofield?
Go read the nonsense in the long winded diatribe posted at the link above by Captain Pablo, it is straight out of Scofield's commentary
Oh, there is more where that came from. Check this out.
https://www.byronstinson.me/buildthetemple
I think I saw a Kirk Cameron movie about this one
It is well when those believe there is nothing any man can do to prevent the end times prophecy. They are correct in their claim.
But if the entirety of the Word is taken into account, Israel believes the red heifers must be sacrificed and their ashes spread on the new temple in Jerusalem, then that is what will happen. For the temple surely will be rebuilt and must be rebuilt before Christ returns and places His foot on the Mount of Olives.
You should not be afraid of these things if you are right with our Lord.
When the temple is rebuilt you will already be with Christ in Heaven.
There is the covenant with Israel. And there is the new covenant of the blood of the Lamb of God. You are covered in the latter and the former will indeed be fulfilled. The church (the body of Christ) does not replace the covenants God has with Israel.
Replacement theology is misguided. Lean not on a denomination's interpretation but go directly to the Word. All of it. Not just the parts that fit the teachings of a denomination. If the Truth is what you are after, you will find it not in your own perception, but in the entirety of the Word. We have entered the time that will see the throes of the great birthing pains of Israel. Praise be to God almighty. There is nothing to fear if you are covered by the blood of the Lamb of God.
But if the entirety of the Word is taken into account, Israel believes the red heifers must be sacrificed and their ashes spread on the new temple in Jerusalem, then that is what will happen. For the temple surely will be rebuilt and must be rebuilt before Christ returns and places His foot on the Mount of Olives.
You should not be afraid of these things if you are right with our Lord.
When the temple is rebuilt you will already be with Christ in Heaven.
There is the covenant with Israel. And there is the new covenant of the blood of the Lamb of God. You are covered in the latter and the former will indeed be fulfilled. The church (the body of Christ) does not replace the covenants God has with Israel.
Replacement theology is misguided. Lean not on a denomination's interpretation but go directly to the Word. All of it. Not just the parts that fit the teachings of a denomination. If the Truth is what you are after, you will find it not in your own perception, but in the entirety of the Word. We have entered the time that will see the throes of the great birthing pains of Israel. Praise be to God almighty. There is nothing to fear if you are covered by the blood of the Lamb of God.
Shooz in Katy said:
It is well when those believe there is nothing any man can do to prevent the end times prophecy. They are correct in their claim.
But if the entirety of the Word is taken into account, Israel believes the red heifers must be sacrificed and their ashes spread on the new temple in Jerusalem, then that is what will happen. For the temple surely will be rebuilt and must be rebuilt before Christ returns and places His foot on the Mount of Olives.
You should not be afraid of these things if you are right with our Lord.
When the temple is rebuilt you will already be with Christ in Heaven.
There is the covenant with Israel. And there is the new covenant of the blood of the Lamb of God. You are covered in the latter and the former will indeed be fulfilled. The church (the body of Christ) does not replace the covenants God has with Israel.
Replacement theology is misguided. Lean not on a denomination's interpretation but go directly to the Word. All of it. Not just the parts that fit the teachings of a denomination. If the Truth is what you are after, you will find it not in your own perception, but in the entirety of the Word. We have entered the time that will see the throes of the great birthing pains of Israel. Praise be to God almighty. There is nothing to fear if you are covered by the blood of the Lamb of God.
Jesus Christ is the Word of God, and he didn't give us a Bible, he gave us a Church, which gave us a Bible. Follow the Word incarnate.
The sacrifice of all sacrifices; on Calvary, has triumphed and all further sacrifices are obsolete regardless of color of heifer. The temple that the Jews are waiting to rebuild has already been rebuilt, 3 days after Calvary. The veil of the holy of holies was torn; man can now commune directly with God daily, not just during the day of atonement. All former covenants are obsolete and void, the messiah foretold has returned. This does not mean God has abandoned his plan for the salvation of the Jews, this means the Jews need to accept Christ as savior and stop with the foolish sacrificing of animals and architectural plans.
Julian the Apostate tried to rebuild the temple in the 4th century as a Middle finger to Christianity, and had earthquakes and literal balls of fire called down upon his crews. 2024 is bad enough as it is in that area, let's not make it worse
A couple of things
Christ made it clear nobody but the Father knew the day of Jesus's return. So why does any of this matter? We are safe and covered by the blood of the Lamb, not a red heifer.
Secondly, you would think if men sacrificing a red heifer to prompt the return of Jesus, the Apostles and early Christians surely would have done it. Most of them were Jews who knew about the red heifer.
Christ made it clear nobody but the Father knew the day of Jesus's return. So why does any of this matter? We are safe and covered by the blood of the Lamb, not a red heifer.
Secondly, you would think if men sacrificing a red heifer to prompt the return of Jesus, the Apostles and early Christians surely would have done it. Most of them were Jews who knew about the red heifer.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Bingo..John 2:19...Quote:
The temple that the Jews are waiting to rebuild has already been rebuilt, 3 days after Calvary.
The Temple that the Jews are going to build has not been built. Do you understand that the Jews we are talking about are unbelieving Jews! They do not believe in Calvary so why try to apply that to them. I agree, sure today the Temple is in our hearts by faith, our bodies are the Temple because the Holy Spirit indwells us. But that is not so for the unbeliever. A physical Temple will be built in Jerusalem for sure as it is very clear from II Thess 2 and Revelation that the Anti-Christ will defile it (a Physical Structure called the Temple!) by proclaiming himself to be deity. The whole deal about the Red Heifer in Numbers was to consecrate the Priests and Temple utensils for service, to purify them and prepare them for ministry in the Temple (Solomon's).
Lotsa luck destroying the Dome of the Rock Mosque first...
Junction71 said:
The Temple that the Jews are going to build has not been built. Do you understand that the Jews we are talking about are unbelieving Jews! They do not believe in Calvary so why try to apply that to them. I agree, sure today the Temple is in our hearts by faith, our bodies are the Temple because the Holy Spirit indwells us. But that is not so for the unbeliever. A physical Temple will be built in Jerusalem for sure as it is very clear from II Thess 2 and Revelation that the Anti-Christ will defile it (a Physical Structure called the Temple!) by proclaiming himself to be deity. The whole deal about the Red Heifer in Numbers was to consecrate the Priests and Temple utensils for service, to purify them and prepare them for ministry in the Temple (Solomon's).
It's a an anti-temple, and that's why it ushers in the anti-Christ. Christ is the both temple and sacrifice all in one. I don't understand the charade behind helping the Jews find the perfect heifer and talk about clearing space when A) it won't do anything for their salvation, B) there is no way in heck the Muslims will let them build a temple over Al Aqsa mosques.
To be honest, this whole charade reminds me of the mental gymnastics that some Jews have to do in order not to work on Saturday. Stickers over refrigerator lights so they don't accidentally turn on a light when getting something to eat. Having a coffee maker make hot water, and pouring it into a cup, and then using that cup to pour into the coffee mug with instant coffee so you technically didn't make coffee with a machines. You cannot loophole God. Slaughtering red heifers and rebuilding fake temples to try and jump start the return of the anti-Christ sounds like something out of a Ghostbusters script. Circumcise your heart.
The messiah has returned. That's why your prophets have stopped. That's why your scapegoat's ribbon didn't change color. He is Jesus Christ, and he is God. He forgives you and everyone else for what they've done.
Do you think the Temple is going to be built by the power of man or destruction of Dome of the Rock prevented by the power of man? Good grief. We are talking about the Creator here. If there is a Temple to be built it will be built, literally just as Solomon's and the 2nd Temple were.
Junction71 said:
Do you think the Temple is going to be built by the power of man or destruction of Dome of the Rock prevented by the power of man? Good grief. We are talking about the Creator here. If there is a Temple to be built it will be built, literally just as Solomon's and the 2nd Temple were.
The creator already raised the temple. This has nothing to do with him. This is anti-creator.
Quote:
To be honest, this whole charade reminds me of the mental gymnastics that some Jews have to do in order not to work on Saturday. Stickers over refrigerator lights so they don't accidentally turn on a light when getting something to eat. Having a coffee maker make hot water, and pouring it into a cup, and then using that cup to pour into the coffee mug with instant coffee so you technically didn't make coffee with a machines. You cannot loophole God.
It's not "loopholes." It's adjusting to modern life while conforming to the law and traditions as best possible. A loophole would be declaring electricity to not be a "fire" and thus not regulated on the Sabbath.
Sapper Redux said:Quote:
To be honest, this whole charade reminds me of the mental gymnastics that some Jews have to do in order not to work on Saturday. Stickers over refrigerator lights so they don't accidentally turn on a light when getting something to eat. Having a coffee maker make hot water, and pouring it into a cup, and then using that cup to pour into the coffee mug with instant coffee so you technically didn't make coffee with a machines. You cannot loophole God.
It's not "loopholes." It's adjusting to modern life while conforming to the law and traditions as best possible. A loophole would be declaring electricity to not be a "fire" and thus not regulated on the Sabbath.
It's a loophole and it's ridiculous. Using a mister coffee to make hot water, and putting the hot water in a cup, and then putting the hot water in the coffee mug, is the same as putting the hot water directly into the coffee mug from the mister coffee.
Loophole: 100% just like making the elevator stop on every floor; the same with shabbos mode on an oven.
They have all these performative things that they do, like putting a string literally around the perimeter of Manhattan when all they have to do is accept the Messiah.
For those of you fellow goys that don't know about the string around Manhattan welcome to the rabbit hole
https://www.npr.org/2019/05/13/721551785/a-fishing-line-encircles-manhattan-protecting-sanctity-of-sabbath
https://www.npr.org/2019/05/13/721551785/a-fishing-line-encircles-manhattan-protecting-sanctity-of-sabbath
Quote:
That's why your scapegoat's ribbon didn't change color.
The ribbon changing color is not in the Mishnah. It's in the analysis/discussion in the Talmud. It wasn't considered some vital ritual annd isn't annywhere in the Tanakh. And the era where it stopped changing color began in reference to the time after the death of Shi'mon the Righteous from the 3rd century BC. During his life as high priest a number of positive signs were always seen and after his death they would occasionally happen and occasionally not. The changing of the ribbon color was one of these signs. Others included the western candle remaining lit, not needing additional firewood, and the bread provided being enough for the priests.
The discussion of the last 40 years takes this tradition to one of impending doom over the Temple. 40 is an important number in Judaism. It often represents change or transformation. So in the discussion of the end of the Temple era, 40 years or months or days would be important milestones. But it would be exactly 40 years. The Temple was destroyed in 70. You'd have to show that Jesus died in 30 and only in the year 30 for your logic to work.
DeProfundis said:
For those of you fellow goys that don't know about the string around Manhattan welcome to the rabbit hole
https://www.npr.org/2019/05/13/721551785/a-fishing-line-encircles-manhattan-protecting-sanctity-of-sabbath
A lot of towns have an eruv. It's common if there's a large Jewish community. It's a long tradition.
DeProfundis said:Sapper Redux said:Quote:
To be honest, this whole charade reminds me of the mental gymnastics that some Jews have to do in order not to work on Saturday. Stickers over refrigerator lights so they don't accidentally turn on a light when getting something to eat. Having a coffee maker make hot water, and pouring it into a cup, and then using that cup to pour into the coffee mug with instant coffee so you technically didn't make coffee with a machines. You cannot loophole God.
It's not "loopholes." It's adjusting to modern life while conforming to the law and traditions as best possible. A loophole would be declaring electricity to not be a "fire" and thus not regulated on the Sabbath.
It's a loophole and it's ridiculous. Using a mister coffee to make hot water, and putting the hot water in a cup, and then putting the hot water in the coffee mug, is the same as putting the hot water directly into the coffee mug from the mister coffee.
Loophole: 100% just like making the elevator stop on every floor; the same with shabbos mode on an oven.
They have all these performative things that they do, like putting a string literally around the perimeter of Manhattan when all they have to do is accept the Messiah.
I get that you don't understand the relationship between Jews and the law. It's not "finding loopholes." It's living in the present and accommodating that reality while holding to ancient understandings of holiness and the relationship between Jews and God. You don't have to like it, but stop pretending Christianity is just Judaism with Jesus. You broke off and do your own thing now. We could go through just how odd Catholic ritual and daily practice appears to non-Christians.
Sapper Redux said:Quote:
To be honest, this whole charade reminds me of the mental gymnastics that some Jews have to do in order not to work on Saturday. Stickers over refrigerator lights so they don't accidentally turn on a light when getting something to eat. Having a coffee maker make hot water, and pouring it into a cup, and then using that cup to pour into the coffee mug with instant coffee so you technically didn't make coffee with a machines. You cannot loophole God.
It's not "loopholes." It's adjusting to modern life while conforming to the law and traditions as best possible. A loophole would be declaring electricity to not be a "fire" and thus not regulated on the Sabbath.
Back in the 1950's, "Conservative" Judaism decided to allow driving on Shabbat for the purpose of attending synagogue services. Even though using an internal combustion engine is literally lighting fires. On one hand, this is explicitly against the Torah. On the other hand, without this leniency, many Jews might give up observance altogether.
Orthodox Judaism requires its members to live within walking distance of a synagogue. Which I personally think is preferable because (for non-religious reasons), I think that automobile-centrism is the bane of American urban development, but I'm getting off-topic here.
I admire the Orthodox Jewish people for their devoutness. I wish Christians were as faithful to attend services and actually follow Christ. Read the Bible daily, daily prayer time, love God and your neighbor.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
The simple fact is that you can't live in most of America without a car. Because of that, a lot of Orthodox and Haredi Jewish communities wind up with extremely expensive real estate because they are in walking distance of the synagogue. Halacha is designed by men. No one in Judaism denies this. It's based on the original laws received. There are plenty of debates about when it is appropriate to modify or ignore Halacha. The most obvious one is when observing the laws would put the life of an individual or another person in danger. Then the emphasis is on saving life rather than adhering to the law. When faced with a situation where one cannot worship without violating the law, it becomes an individual decision about what is more important.
I don't get the Christian hatred for the Temple and sacrifices. People act like they are evil or something. These things were specifically commanded by God Himself. They are good things. Jesus offered sacrifices at the Temple. Christians, at least the Jewish ones, continued to sacrifice at the Temple for almost 40 years after Christ resurrected. So it's not like Jesus, the Apostles or other early Christians thought the Temple sacrifices were bad. James, the Apostle and first Bishop of Jerusalem, was very devout regarding this and just about everything else. So to say they are anti-Christ or bad in any way just doesn't make any sense to me.
As far as rebuilding it, that's up to God. The Temple and sacrifices are good things. Nothing that comes directly from God can be anything else. However, it is a good thing that is currently denied to us. As noted above, Julian the Apostate tried to rebuild the Temple and was miraculously rebuffed. So at that time, God didn't want a Temple built. He refused us that blessing. No one has tried again since, and when or if they do we'll find out what He thinks about it
As far as rebuilding it, that's up to God. The Temple and sacrifices are good things. Nothing that comes directly from God can be anything else. However, it is a good thing that is currently denied to us. As noted above, Julian the Apostate tried to rebuild the Temple and was miraculously rebuffed. So at that time, God didn't want a Temple built. He refused us that blessing. No one has tried again since, and when or if they do we'll find out what He thinks about it
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
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